A Having problems getting ESA85 Statement from recent WCA

[JustIsss]

I am not surprised.

 

I returned my ESA50 by recorded/signed-for delivery and DWP still had suspended my benefits, including housing, claiming they hadn't received my ESA50 on time, which was a lie as they signed for it and I had evidence. I phoned DWP and CHDA; three individuals across the two organisations accused me for sending the ESA50 too late and not accounting for possible internal mail handling delays, as though they were all taught from the same script. I logged complaints with both DWP and CHDA for having my benefits suspended despite sending the ESA50 on time. In the end my benefits were reinstated (only to be lead into another trap - that's another story though). I never received a complaint response from DWP. CHDA responded stating that DWP returned my ESA50 late to CHDA, or something to that effect, and they stated that it was never claimed I returned my form late, but rather that they didn't receive it on time - or something to that effect.

 

I hope your battle will not be as 'bloody' as is mine.

[tommy456]

They give a clear date it has to be returned by so using first class you could leave it until there are only 3 -4 working days left to send it As long as it's delivered by or on that date, you have complied if they loose it in the Wolverhampton black hole how is that the fault of the customer? and yet the punish them for it and this is supposed to be acceptable?

[joeblogs]

This has left you in a right mess Tommy. The only advice I can offer is what I said in my previous post, i.e. call and speak to the Manager at the CAB. All Advisors are accountable to the Manager and there should be some evidence in their office as to what date the ESA50 was returned. Merely sending a copy of your ESA50 and asking for a MR is not acceptable. The DWP have not received (according to their version) your ESA50, so they won't be able to undertake an MR on the copy the advisor is now sending. You have to remember that advisor's at the CAB are mainly unpaid volunteers who do a sterling job, however, often they do get things wrong. If the advisor had sent you a copy of the ESA50, chances are the original would have been sent to the DWP at the same time, however, as you said, no copy was sent or was one sent on a previous application, which leaves you in a very difficult position. The choice is to listen to Vivaldi and speak to the Manager at the CAB (not the advisor) or sign on for JSA, which given the fact you have a current sick note means you are not fit for work.

[tommy456]

Well i have just spoken to the CAB case worker again about it, And he has sent a copy of the esa50 and a covering letter infact he has a template letter for just this very issue, because he has encountered the same issue previously, and in the past they issue has been resolved without waiting an age,

 

the DWP accept that the ESA was sent to them before the end date (which he is sending proof of) and that it isn't my fault they don't have it, or have lost it

And if for whatever reason that doesn't work out , then i'll be on the war path, not on the phone to DWP wasting money i don't have but in the local JCP, i'll use their phone to speak to someone who can access the part of the system needed

[joeblogs]

Great news Tommy, I'm happy for you and the fact the CAB have got proof of postage, only hope you get a good outcome, well done

[honeybee13]

That has to be one of the advantages of having the CAB helping you. I hope this works out.

 

HB

[tommy456]

So do i

[tommy456]

Well Got notice /bill for CT today due to the DWP informing them my esa had stopped so no doubt my HB will have been stopped too , Typical dumb system , why could the councils not build into the systems to make an enquiry with the claimant before stopping benefits giving them an opportunity to let them know if they have started work, or have nil income, and only if they got no reply do they stop benefits so dumb

 

So now i'm supposed to traipse to the local ct office make a statement declare nil income that's after i have traipsed to the only branch of my bank and got a print out /statement

This is with stage 4 oa in one knee i'm tempted to say to hell with it, why should i chase around when it isn't of my making , i didn't loose the esa50 ct will get nothing from me, i can't give what i don't have

[tommy456]

Well the landlord in on my case now for the rent, unsurprisingly , and the morons at the council will be sending me threats for CT that i do not owe ,I have spoken to the council re HB and due to the Way that the DWP have gone about things ie not suspending my Claim but ending it, they say even if i provided a statement of not income,it would have to go to a MR of their own before they could start payments again , So the DWP have really screwed me over this time by cancelling my claim instead of suspending it

[flumps1976]

The claims aren't suspended for non receipt of a form they are closed. The only thing I can think of is to ask for an AJCS (customer service) appointment at the JCP office to make a statement of what happened and to have a duplicate ESA50 handed to you to complete and send via scan to the Benefit Centre. The staff in the JCP are no allowed to completed the ESA50 for or with you and can only give you the duplicate form. Once that form has been scanned across you can request an urgent decision to consider a mandatory reconsideration of the decision to close your claim. There is no guarantee that this will work though sorry, but it will be better than having to consider a claim to JSA.

[tommy456]

On the letter i got from the council it states claim cancelled , End of DWP benefit this is regarding housing benefit it also shows the start date and end dates from 2009 to 2016 ,

and there is also notice of recalculation for the same reason and a bill owing of nearly £400, in the past following a failed WCA and ESA being disallowed i have never had the same notice,

 

And all i had to do was make a declaration of nil income and provide up to date bankstatements at my local council offices and payment of HB and CTR were re-commenced before my JSA claim had been processed ,whatever they have done this time isn't right

 

In the event of the show being on the other foot so to speak , no doubt they will not except that their mail can get lost and not be delivered and probably punish people for that too? My point being this if posting a letter is deemed by them as being delivered then the same bs logic should apply when we post things to them

 

Well i rang them yesterday (,20mins on hold) they told me that the decision had been revised ,I'm hoping they were referring to the decision to stop esa claim last month,

 

i got a letter that is supposed to be proof of benefit , but it isn't the usual award of benefit notice, it just gives the date the claim started and says ongoing claim by the termination date part of it,so? I hope they restart my housing soon, as my landlord was on my case too, uttering noises about increasing the rent by £55 per week, which would take it over the max amount of LHA for this area by £30 per week,

 

he is in cloud cuckoo , not a chance i could afford that, i wouldn't contemplate paying the extra out of my£73.10 per week i can't live outside debt as it is, currently i will have spent the money i'm owed before it hits my bank so that will be another 2 weeks £146.20 in debt

 

And it's partly down to the DWP , and part me not going without, ie not eating cancelling all DD's all i'm doing is existing ,no luxuries, unless you count heat/eating and lighting luxuries

 

I found this piece of info that would suggest maybe they have been misleading ESA claimants regarding the

number of times their WCA F2F appointment can be re scheduled

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/255582/response/633744/attach/2/FOI%20794%20reply.pdf

 

The info on the CHDA's (Maximus) website would suggest otherwise as would those who answer the phones as several claimants have been told that they can only reschedule once only, implying that is the law

 

which it is not , it is merely an internal rule within the DWP , So when the ATOS contract ended and Maximus took over the DWP slipped in this internal nonsense it would seem maybe case law is required to make them have a change of heart? but there again a tribunal's there to apply the law are the DWP now assuming they are above it ?

[speedfreek]

not really as........

 

we established a long time ago that there is simply just no such rule in the legislation.

 

I had my 1st assessment back in 2010 rescheduled 6 times.

 

The issue is that the internal DWP guidance states refer to decision maker if YOU cancel more than once no matter what the reason.

 

The trick is to argue that they have not complied with something like offering a taxi or home visit so that you put the cancellation on them not you.

 

Other than that you need a cast in stone reason you can back up with evidence. Even then you run the risk of a vengeful pointless sanction to meet DWP targets.

 

It's basically play the game!

[tommy456]

Yes but reading the CHDA website under frequent questions they categorically say that appointments can only be rescheduled once, this is misleading

 

I on a previous claim rescheduled my appointment 3 times on a esa claim when ATOS were carrying out the farce AKA f2f / wca 1st time because of the time of it wasn't convenient for me, the second time was for a ground floor venue (in case of fire) and the 3rd by asking if the appointment would be audio recorded they re arranged it

[tommy456]

Update : ESA is now reinstated and without any gaps, but the local council are still lagging behind , they have seen and scanned a copy of the ESA letter that shows it's in payment ,and i signed a statement to that effect this was the other day why all the "we have to reconsider it and make a decision, blah blah blah," when there is nothing to decide I'm getting ESA so where is there issue???????????????? useless it's no wonder why so many people are homeless , i asked if they could speed this up they said only if you have a letter of eviction talk about dumb wouldn't it be best for everyone if they avoided that ??????

[tommy456]

Just a little progress report , Seen the orthopaedic consultant/ surgeon today, and saw my latest X-ray for the first time and my knee joint isn't in a good way, In discussing my options and after examining my knees ,my ideal plan of waiting longer to have surgery rather than having the replacement now, was deemed ok by the consultant he is happy to do that , so not discharged and have to return in 12mths time with new x-ray to see if there have been any changes or not, and told me that if in the mean time there is any sudden changes to ring them and they will organise things

He asked if i had used a knee brace , i told him that it had been discussed with my GP about having one but had not been referred /prescribed one, , i told him about the situation i'm in regarding not being fit for work and the DWP's stance on that , and he said there and then he agreed that i'm not fit for work as the arthritis is severe , he will be sending is report to my GP and copy to me, So hopefully it will be sufficient

[tommy456]

Just seen my GP who has been monitoring my BP due to the previous high readings, And is going to refer me for a Knee brace, If to enable me to exercise at a gym ,so i can loose some weight which in turn will reduce /control my BP the alternative is medication , but loosing some weight will also be beneficial to my knee, in that it may help avoid surgery for longer , i would buy one myself , but my GP tells me that those sports type of braces don't really offer enough support ,

[tommy456]

I got a letter from the Hospital i chose and it would appear that i didn't need to ask my GP about a Brace, as this letter is from their surgical appliances dept saying that they have received a referral for an orthotic assessment , and there is no need for me to ring them as they will send out an appointment , So the orthopaedic consultant must have organised this , well it may hopefully cut the waiting time, as i need to start loosing weight soon or i'll end up taking bp meds

 

Not that any of the above matters to those who carry out WCA's always ffw at any cost

[tommy456]

After doing some research about the code of ethics that all HCP's sign up for when they register with their governing body if that is the correct terminology to use for it? because according to the GMC for one their registered and licenced to practice doctors have to regard us as patients when carrying out WCA's and they have certain duties to their patients ,similar will likely apply to registered nurses and even physiotherapists

 

Which they clearely don't do, they used ambigous methods to asses range of movement , often do not write up accurate and true reports for the DWP

 

I planning on holding the DISABILITY ANALYST at my next WCA farce to account about the methods they use, and what they write in their report , or fail to write in their report, obviously i will have to do it in a way that isn't considered to be failing to submit that they use , So i will wait untill the audio recorder is running , and i'm also thinking of providing a comentary as they perform their dodgy assessment of my lower limbs , and comment about my BP if elivated ,

After so many previous failed WCA farces i have arrived at the conclusion that so matter how much evidence i have or what is said at the F2F farce they will always score me a Zero, because it's what they have been told to do, So i may as well get some form of revenge and also do something constructive as it wont affect the outcome of the F2F farce

[Lapsed Workaholic]

I am encouraged by your positive approach and feel sure that with this attitude you can't fail to achieve the desired outcome.

 

You have not said when your Work Capability Assessment is to be. If you haven't been informed already I expect they will give you ample time to prepare. You could use this time to find out who the Health Care Professional conducting the assessment is to be and what professional body s/he is registered with. You will then be able to study the code of practice that s/he is pledged to honour.

 

As you say, the first duty of care is to the patient, in whatever capacity s/he examines, assesses or diagnoses that patient. If the interests of the DWP, which invariably lies contrary to the interests of the patient, are put before the well-being of the patient, then s/he is in flagrant breach of the code of conduct s/he is pledged to uphold.

 

As previously discussed, when answering questions at assessments or in forms, remember the DWP's own guidance says that you must answer them bearing in mind that "...... .you must be able to do the activity safely, to an acceptable standard, as often as you need to and in a reasonable length of time."

 

Remember also that most, if not all, physical conditions vary in intensity and frequency, the effect may come and go. But most, if not all. such conditions do not come alone.

 

They bring with them mental and psychological conditions, anxiety, trepidation, dread, fear and the like, that are constant and those, just as much as the physical condition will affect the ability to do the activity, or work, safely, to an acceptable standard, as often as you need to, not as you feel like it, when you feel like it. The mental condition, which remains constant, is equally as important as the physical, which may not. The Prime Minister herself said so, in terms, last Monday.

 

Any medical practitioner prepared to dispute or contradict those truths is, in my view, in breach of the codes of ethics s/he is pledged to honour and maintain.

[tommy456]

No, not had the date yet for the f2f farce, I didn't think that you could get the name and profession of which Disability analyst will be assess you in advance , who can i get this info,from the CHDS or whatever they call themselves these days?

 

I found this although it is from 2012 when Atossers where doing the WCA i dobt it will have changed significantly if at all since then http://www.rightsnet.org.uk/?ACT=39&fid=3&aid=179_YGvh8oqzQoiEpJqKjbyE&board_id=1

 

There seems to be some less obvious instructions going on , which could help to explain why so many score 0 points when they should score some points

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Tommy, you say that you didn't know that you could get the name and profession of the assessor in advance, Can anyone who has been through the process from start to finish say if at all, or if so, when, they became aware of the assessor's name? Were there no introductions at the Work Capability Assessment? Who, if anyone, are you asked to contact when you get your post-assessment result notification or report, or the result of the mandatory reconsideration?

 

If the name is withheld, one wonders why.

 

Would it be true to say that the claimant is sometimes informed of the assessment date several months before the actual event? Or that at least enough notice is given to enable the claimant to acknowledge that s/he will be ready, willing and able to attend?

 

Surely when fixing a date for the assessment the name of the person conducting it will be known to whoever is arranging it. That assessor will also need to be ready, willing and able to attend on the requisite date .

 

There is no reason why the claimant could not ask the sender formally upon receipt of the notification of the date of the assessment, which may be several months hence, who the assessor is, and what profession, the better to prepare one's evidence in terms familiar to the assessor's customary sphere of expertise. Refusal to respond to such a request would be very helpful evidence later, should it be necessary to appeal.

 

Once the name is discovered it can be checked against the lists of registered members of the bodies such as those mentioned in a previous post. Those lists are in the public domain and the websites of those bodies tells one how to go about checking them.

[tommy456]

Maximus don't include their names on the appointment letters, yes they do say who they are (introduce themselves ) ie my names is.......... and i am a..... nurse /doctors/physio etc, so unless you have a good memory or take notes, you would probably forget their name by the time you got home,

The next time you get their name and qualification is when you receive the ESA85 usually in the appeal bundle

 

The appointments can can short notice ,if the claimant has ticked the box and agreed to it, mine typically have been within a few weeks of receiving the appointment letter, last time a re schedule for change of venue to a ground floor one and audio recorded interview only delayed by a further 10 days or so, unlike when Atos where running it

 

AS for "Surely when fixing a date for the assessment the name of the person conducting it will be known to whoever is arranging it. as That assessor will also need to be ready, willing and able to attend on the requisite date" not sure if they would know this, or it gets decided so far in advance it's a call centre you get put through to that takes calls for several centres also it would be likely subject to change at the last minute too

[Lapsed Workaholic]

So Tommy, a few weeks' notice of the assessment is good. Plenty of time to request details of name, profession, whether registered and with whom. The main thing at this stage is that you will have evidence of making the request.

 

Request for the proceedings to be recorded, also good. Request to be accompanied would be good if at all possible. they could take notes. You can ask for name and profession to be repeated if you did not get time to make a note of it first time.

 

Even if the assessor is all legitimate and above board, s/he will by now have a niggling concern; 'why is this person so insistent on getting my name etc.? All the more so if s/he is not legit, or intends to try any tricks and twist the truth. The earlier in the process that you get them niggled and implant the idea that you are up to something the first part of the scheme will be working.

 

The next part of the plan is to place in the record the proposition that I have expounded on in Post # 2; that the physical effect of your condition may vary in intensity and frequency but the mental effects are constant. Hopefully you will have asked your GP, or any other physician you deal with, to let you have something in writing to this effect. Prescribed medication for the mental/psychological effects would be a bonus and irrefutable in this regard.

 

By this stage of the proceedings you will have already completed the questionnaire as I suggested, also in Post #2, as the DWP advises, bearing in mind as you answer that; "...... .you must be able to do the activity safely, to an acceptable standard, as often as you need to and in a reasonable length of time".

 

Unless the assessor is a complete numpty s/he will have sussed by now that you are angling towards getting his/her duty of care front and centre to you as a patient and not to the DWP as a statistic.

 

If the assessor should choose to disregard this approach s/he needs to be aware that either s/he or your GP has failed in their duty of care and that you are prepared to take the issue to the wire, you will have one scalp or the other, you will have your day in court. Of course it is in his/her power to prevent any scalp at all being taken.

[tommy456]

Yes did ESA50 with CAB caseworker for better wording etc, it was prudent that i did this because they stopped my money saying they had not received the ESA50 and implying i had not returned it, no asking for reasons, though, just informing me that esa had been stopped, nice of them, not

 

He had a template letter for just such problems, so he sent them copies of the ESA50 and medical evidence, since then i have seen an orthopedic surgeon regarding my knee, and it's very obvious from the x-ray that my knee is badly worn , he diagnosed that i am certainly a candidate for a TKR (stage 4 OA)

 

said that I'm unfit for work, and that he thought my wishes to delay having surgery was prudent and agreed with me on that, he will be seeing me again in around 12mths time to check to see if it has deteriorated further, and has referred me for a knee brace, which i will get an appointment hopefully sometime soon

 

my GP has a copy of his report , my GP has been regularly checking my BP i have borderline stage 1-2 BP, this is because i am around 50kgs over my ideal weight BMI of 37 due to lack of exercise because of my knee my forefoot, and to some degree IBS urgency of stools, again my knee does play a part in reaching a toilet in time or not, but hey use pads problem solved as far as dwp are concerned , they are the ones wearing them though are they?

 

it's almost as dumb as them assessing people who don't even have a wheelchair as being able to use one, My GP has said pads aren't suitable, so he should really back that up on paper and explain why to them, no use telling me ,But at least this gp will write letters and try to help

[tommy456]

Well the 1st appointment for the F2F farce that they call the WCA landed today,

it's an early AM time at the nearest location they have to me,and is on the 1st floor, and of course isn't audio recorded by default ,

 

Do the people doing the appointments not have any idea why we are being summoned to undergo this farce, or realise that PEAK TIME travel cost's more, or travel in taxis or private cars during rush hours takes longer and is more problematic, and yes whilst they do refund travel expenses it takes weeks ,which again is done purposely

 

needless to say i won't be accepting that bs, and will leave till very near the date before rearranging it to a different location that is on the ground floor, and at a later time in the day too, plus audio recorded, which will have to fit around my hospital appointments and GP appointments too, cause i refuse to miss treatment etc for their farce

 

I have a copy of the Orthopaedic surgeon's report, quite a bit of medical jargon in it, but seems to be quite thorough though is factually incorrect on one point regarding an old injury to the knee in question but that IMO wouldn't result in a different decision being reached

My CAB caseworker says to submit it prior to the farce, but i feel it's pointless because the ethic-less HCP will not read or will just ignore it anyway