Big Motoring World Enfield /Blackhorse - done over on car - @BigMotoringWrld

[ATJ]

Hello,

On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
 

Many thanks 

[BankFodder]

The first thing you must do immediately is to assert your short-term right to reject.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, if a defect manifest itself within the first 30 days then you have a right to reject the vehicle and insist on a refund.

You should assert this right in writing and I suggest that you do this straightaway. Even if you don't want to get rid of the vehicle, assert the right in order to reserve your position.
In your letter, which should be very clearly headed "Notice of Rejection under the Consumer Rights Act" – you should also make it clear that any inspection or diagnostic appointment should not be taken as surrendering your right to reject. Any repairs could only be carried out by specific written agreement with you.

Do this immediately.

Other than that, please tell us about the car, make, model, mileage, price paid.

How was it financed?

Be aware that Big Motoring World are even likely to say that your phone call with them and which they advise you to take it to one of their centres amounted to a surrender of your right to reject.

Please write your letter rejection. Confirm that you have done this. Send by email and by post. Please address the questions I have put above.

Read our customer services guide and read the advice that we give generally about the purchase of used cars – our used car guide


 

[BankFodder]

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/search/?q="Big motoring world"&quick=1&updated_after=any&sortby=relevancy

 

 

[honeybee13]

Thread moved to the Vehicle retailers and manufacturers forum.

HB

[ATJ]

Mini Countryman Cooper cost £13,500 mileage advertised 43,214

I p/x my car which had remaining finance of £14,492.60

BMW offered £13, 600 with me to pay balance 

3 yrs warranty cost £1,500

Paid £5k via bank transfer equating to a deposit on car of £3,907.40

HP agreement over 60mths at £261.99 apr @13.9%

Writing up rejection now for sending by email and recorded post today.  Will confirm once done. 

Also, BMW email with contract documents attached do not download or open. 

[Nicky Boy]

May be a good idea to post your letter up here for the team to check it first.

Oh... Don't forget your free proof of posting from the post office, and keep it safe. (It's evidence you might need later.)

 

Another thing BF @BankFodder... As it's apparently on HP finance, should the OP also write to the Finance company?

[BankFodder]

Yes you should write to the finance company. Include them in all written communications. Which finance company did you use?

I think it will be good idea to post the letter of rejection here before you send it off.

Do you know if your exchange vehicle is still with them? This is a complicating factor

 

Also please follow the link and read about extended warranties. You won't like what you see. You have effectively paid £1500 for duplicate rights which you already enjoy under the Consumer Rights Act.
There might be a few minor advantages, for instance if the warranty is transferable if you sell vehicle. But by and large you have been ripped off. Who is it who is providing the warranty?

[ATJ]

Black Horse finance company 

I’m not aware if my exchange vehicle is still with them 

 

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

[theberengersniper]

Just a quick point of note; that amber light you have on your dashboard will never "go red", it is a single-colour lamp that has no ability to change its colour. In fact it's concerning you're being told that, there are no warning lights on your dashboard that change colour depending on the severity of the problem.

In your case, that light indicates that there is a current and active problem with your car. In order to establish what that problem is, your car needs to be connected to a diagnostic scanner (preferably a BMW one [as in the manufacturer, not Big Motoring World], as generic scanners that you can buy online can't always query the ECU fully) and its fault codes read. With respect, I disagree entirely with their advice that you can continue to use the car. With some problems that could cause the lamp to illuminate, it may indeed be safe to continue using it, but you don't know what those faults are, and there are plenty that could cause significant damage.

By way of a quick word of warning, be wary of the garage taking the car in and simply clearing the fault code memory. Doing so would cause your engine light to go out and could possibly trick you into thinking the problem has been resolved, when in reality it will come back after you've driven the car a few times.

Saying all that, I would agree with the advice you've been given, you should absolutely reject this vehicle.

[BankFodder]

19 minutes ago, ATJ said:

 

I’m not aware if my exchange vehicle is still with them 

 

Well hurry up and Draft the letter because we will need to amend it to include a reference to your car.

There is really no time to lose. I would have expected that you would have done it by now

[ATJ]

Sorry. But it’s not easy as doing this whilst at work with constant interruptions…

[Nicky Boy]

They've only had 6 hours BF, and probably at work... Cut 'em some slack

Ooops! Cross-posted.

AND seeeee, told ya!

[ATJ]

Draft letter - any good ???

Quote

 

Friday 19 January 2024

 

To Whom It Concerns

Big Motoring World 

Unit 2, Ambley Green,

Gillingham Business Park,

Gillingham ME8 0NJ

 

Ref: XXXX XXX Notice of Rejection under the Consumer Rights Act

 

On Wednesday 18 January 2024 at 10pm I purchased and took delivery of the above vehicle (Mini Cooper Countryman) from you.

 

The purchase was made with Sale Executive Jordan Otero who provided a 5-minute viewing of the car inside the warehouse followed by a very brief drive on the street outside the car dealership.  I was not permitted to take it anywhere else.

 

Once back inside dealership, Mr Otero pushed me to purchase a warranty (stating repairs are covered at over 500 registered garages), GAP insurance and other products; strongly advising I did so due to the age of the mini.  Each time I declined he reduced costs even exchanging places with his manager who applied further pressure for me to buy the 3-year warranty costing £1,583.35.  Then at rapid pace, Mr Otero completed various documents on his electronic tablet, which I could not read but was made to sign.

 

On Thursday 19 January, I discovered that the car was not of satisfactory quality: as engine management light was on dashboard, car was juddering, and engine cut out briefly.  I phoned and reported the matter to you immediately and was advised the earliest date for a check to be made on the car was March 25^th at one of only 5 locations you have in the UK.  You also warned the car should be driven with caution.

 

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods that are fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality.  However, the vehicle is clearly not of satisfactory quality, roadworthy or fit for purpose.   You are therefore in breach of contract.   

 

I am legally entitled to reject the vehicle and therefore reject my car and want to be reimbursed all monies paid of £5,099.00 by bank transfer within 14 days; deadline ending Friday 2 February 2024.

 

Any inspection or diagnostic appointment should not be taken as surrendering my right to reject.  Any repairs can only be carried out by specific written agreement with you.

 

 

 

[ATJ]

BMW  sent email below yesterday confirming booking at service centre on 25 March .

I’ve messaged back advising to include juddering and engine cut out.

 

PD- 17/01/2024 

RD- 18/01/2024 

36MW 

FOC DIAG 

WAITING 

 

CUST EXPERIENCING AMBER EML. NOT DRIVEN VEHICLE ENOUGH TO NOTICE ANY OTHER SYMPTOMS AS HAD VEHICLE LESS THAN 24 HRS.

Should you need to add any additional work, please notify us by email on [email protected] with a minimum of 24 hours notice. We will advise at this point whether we are able to facilitate any additional work on the date/time of booking or whether a rebook will be required.

This appointment is for an initial diagnosis only, it is likely you will be required to rebook for further diagnosis/repair work.

[BankFodder]

Please stand by for a reply later on or tomorrow

I was trying to push the letter in order to interrupt them if at all possible from disposing of the part exchange car.

If they dispose of it then it will make things extra complicated.

However, it is not too late and so we will have to hope that nothing is done before Monday

[ATJ]

Okay, I understand. Really appreciate everyone’s input on this 

[BankFodder]

Incidentally are you prepared to begin a legal action on this?

If so then we may Draft this letter as a letter of claim

[BankFodder]

I've looked at the finance arrangements as you have explained them earlier on in this thread and probably because I don't understand the kinds of things but I'm really quite confused now as to what money you would have to claim back if you sued.

I thought that we would draft a letter of claim – but I'm too uncertain of the figures. Also, we need to bear in mind that if you sue them for more than £10,000 then you come out of the small claims system and you could be liable to costs in the event that you lose – although I consider that this is extremely unlikely. I consider that your chance of success are better than 95% given how quickly you have reacted to the defects.
Big motoring world will try to say that the defect is insignificant. They will also say that they want to diagnose the problem and then they will say that they have corrected it and of course they will try to save that you consented to the repairs so therefore you have vitiated your right rejection.
These are the common reports that we are getting about this company Big Motoring World.

We probably need to be dealing directly with the finance company rather than Big Motoring World although we should keep the dealership copied into everything.

I understand that you part exchanged a vehicle which was already subject of a finance agreement and part the deal was that Big Motoring World were going to settle that for you and then generally, cash adjustments.

In terms of understanding the finance, I can tell you that I'm completely out of my depth. However what seems to be clear is that the car was not satisfactory quality when you collected it as you noticed that the warning light came on the dashboard the next day.
I understand that you inform them immediately – the day after you took delivery of the vehicle. I understand that they say that they can't give you an appointment until March. I also understand that they told you that it wasn't serious but when it changed to a red colour then it would be extremely significant.
I understand from @theberengersniper that there is no second red stage in the warning light system. Yellow is all you get and you should take notice of it immediately.
I understand that you have been told that until March you have to be careful while driving it. On the other hand, fellow Cagger @theberengersniper advise against driving the vehicle altogether.

As it seems that the car was not of satisfactory quality, you are entitled to reject the vehicle and so we must write a letter. It's up to you if you want to turn into a letter of claim and begin an action in 15 days.
Your chances of success are better than 95%, in my view, but the cost risks increase after £10,000 and somebody will need to help me out here to understand exactly how much money you would be claiming for.

 

Quote

 

Dear Sir/Mdm

Notice of Rejection under the Consumer Rights Act

HP agreement XXX. Vehicle make XXX registration number XXX

 

I'm writing to inform you that I am asserting my right under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 to reject the above vehicle.

I purchased the vehicle on XXX date. The following day I noticed a dashboard warning light which indicated XXX problem. The vehicle is not satisfactory quality. Is very clearly a defect and therefore I am rejecting the vehicle and I would like you to arrange its collection and a refund of my money, cancellation of the HP loan agreement and the return of my XXX vehicle registration number XXX which was used in part exchange.
My rejection will also involve cancellation of the warranty which I was persuaded to purchase and the return of the £1500 I was charge for this.
I now understand that this warranty if it was completely unnecessary because it effectively duplicates the rights which I already enjoy under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

You should note that I informed the dealership immediately I notice the dashboard warning light. They are unable to deal with the matter and told me that their earliest appointment would be in March and that the vehicle should be driven with caution until that time.

I have consulted another professional source who advised me against driving the vehicle altogether.

I have taken photographs of the dashboard warning light.

There is no need in my view to carry out any diagnostic test. Any warning light on the dashboard is to be taken seriously and is sufficient evidence that there is a problem and that the vehicle is not in satisfactory condition.

In any event, I'm putting your notice that 

Any inspection or diagnostic appointment should not be taken as surrendering my right to reject.  Any repairs can only be carried out by specific written agreement with you 

and for the record I have not consented to any repairs and nor will I do so.
My decision to reject the vehicle is final.

I should point out to you now that the dealership – Big Motoring World – have a reputation for attempting to avoid their consumer obligations by prevaricating and and attempting to claim that their customers have consented to repairs.

A copy of this letter has been sent to Big Motoring World. They should be advised not to make any attempt to dispose of my part exchange vehicle as I shall be requiring its return.
If they make any attempt to dispose of that vehicle after the date of this rejection, that will be taken to be a further breach of my rights under the Consumer Rights Act and of course Blackhorse Finance will be responsible for all contractual breaches.
 

Please have a look at this letter and see if there's anything you want to add, anything that is wrong. You will need to complete the various bits and pieces marked XXX

Edited January 20 by BankFodder
Edits in red

[ATJ]

Following your advice, I reported issue to the finance company yesterday who took full details and logged it as a complaint and are investigating. 

[BankFodder]

Good move. However their investigation will take ages they may even say that they want eight weeks to complete the investigation. You are not bound by this.

If you are happy with the suggested letter above then send that to them immediately. Then call them to make sure that they have received. Send a copy to big motoring world. Mark it down at the bottom – cc: Big Motoring World. Make sure that big motoring know that it has been sent to the finance company.

You should make it clear that the finance company that it doesn't need an investigation is simply needs an immediate arrangement to sort out the mess which has been caused by their breach of contract.

I'm going to make an amendment which will be in red. Hang on

[BankFodder]

You should contact Blackhorse Finance on the telephone as quickly as possible and put them on notice that no attempt should be made to dispose of or to deal with the vehicle which you left in part exchange.
Tell them that if they do not instruct the dealer to do this then this will simply cause an additional legal problem

[ATJ]

I’ve just noticed the dates in my letter are incorrect as should be Weds 17 Jan and Thurs 18 

Will need to amend …

[BankFodder]

Yes, you will need to be scrupulous

[ATJ]

Also just spoke with a local reputable garage about getting diagnostic done on the car and the minute I mentioned BMW he said have had lots of people come in with issues with them and so they’ve simply dropped car and keys back at the dealership (basically abandon the car ) and BMW have no choice than to deal with the issues.

Not sure if this is a good idea or not ?