Penham Excel threatening to remove vehicle......7yrs old CTAX LO

[ss002d6252]

Surprisingly (considering how bad they were at other basic things) the local authority I worked for managed to account for the enforcement agent fees correctly.

 

Craig

Edited December 6, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Bailiff Advice]

Thank you Craig for your input. Although it has taken three years, the vast majority of councils understand about the 'pro rata' distribution of payments and more importantly, the reason WHY Parliament provided that the Compliance fee must first be accounted for.

 

As outlined in the recent judgment, the debtor plainly knew when receiving the Notice of Enforcement who he should be making payment to (the enforcement company) and he should have done so.

Edited December 6, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[lisadp1970]

Hi

 

From what I know regarding Bailiffs and what they can and can't do, I was under the impression that unless a Bailiff had been granted entry to your property they couldn't force entry?

 

I'm currently looking at a letter from Penham Excel, which has a paragraph stating - "I have attended today to take control of goods and remove for sale. If you do not pay immediately (and we have taken control of your goods) forcible entry to your property may be made.....blah blah blah"

 

Now the Bailiff in question who turned up on my doorstep was told to go away and sisn't have any access to my house, so why are they threatening to force entry?

 

This is for an old council tax debt from 7 years ago for a different prpeorty to where I live now.

 

Thanks for any advice

Lisa

[unclebulgaria67]

No forced entry allowed for council tax. Only items outside or in garages/sheds not attached to house could be taken control of, with a view to taking them to sell.

 

They are just giving you false information, which is a bit naughty.

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to the correct forum.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[brassnecked]

Forced entry may be made in extremis by an application to the court and is very very rare but is a long way down the road for council tax, as I think the council rather than the bailiff applies for the warrant ( others will know for sure) so keep him out and hide any car. A bailiff collecting for Magistrates Court fine CAN force entry, and the bailiffs like to make a debtor think it applies to other debts as a frightener. The take control in your absence is stuff lying around outside, like expensive garden furniture, power tools etc, and most of all a car, motorcycle, expensive cycle. a scooter.

[dx100uk]

Here is something to be getting on with.

.

First of all establish from the Council how much was owing etc

.

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

...........................

.

Next you need to send off for a breakdown of the charges the Bailiff applied.

.

Here's an example,

use and ADAPT at will and best sent initially by email backed up by a copy in the post.

.

"From:

My Name

My Address

.

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

.

Ref: Account No: 123456

.

Dear Sir

.

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

.

This is NOT a Subject Access Request

uest under the Data Protection Act S7 1998

so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

.

I require this information within 14 days.

.

Yours faithfully

.

Ripped off customer"

.

[dx100uk]

oh and read the letter properly

it DOESNT say they can force entry..it says IF they have a list of controlled goods

well hes not been inside your house and done that so he cant...

[ss002d6252]

What the enforcement agent states isn't incorrect - they clarify the statement that they can force entry where they've taken control of goods, which is correct.

 

Craig

[brassnecked]

Yes, as in this case, can only force entry forthwith with a Magistrates criminal fine like TV Tax

[Bailiff Advice]

 

I'm currently looking at a letter from Penham Excel, which has a paragraph stating - "I have attended today to take control of goods and remove for sale. If you do not pay immediately (and we have taken control of your goods) forcible entry to your property may be made.....blah blah blah"

 

Would you mind copying the exact words.

[ericsbrother]

note the word AND- well they havent take control of goods. If you let them in and they make thier inventpry youi cant stop them re-entering later and removing them.

As they havent got that far it isnt applicable

[Homer67]

Am I correct in thinking that Council Tax debts do not become statue barred? OP advises that the debt is from 7 years ago so he/she may be thinking that SB applies.

[ericsbrother]

A one time work colleague of mine had a similar problem as his late father owed some councul tax and it all seemed to be forgotten about until 11 years later when the council applied to court to set the bailiffs on my friend and his brother as the beneficiaries of the late father's estate. It was chucked out as they had no way of knowing about the debt and they were told that it would anyway be unenforceable after that time. That seemed to impy that there is a limit akin to mortgage debt rather than the usual SB 6 years.

[AndyOrch]

A council should not go to the magistrates’ court and ask for a liability order for council tax more than six years after the council tax became due. This is under Regulation 34(3) Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

 

Once the council has obtained a liability order, there is no time limit for enforcing it. There may be limits on how the council can enforce old liability orders.

 

The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for council tax, is when the council first sent a bill to you. Unreasonable delays in sending bills could be grounds for making a complaint to the council and, if unresolved, the Local Government Ombudsman.

[Homer67]

Interesting, when my Mum died I advised the local council that the property was unoccupied and I had removed the furniture, they then suspended all council tax payments for 6 months and even extended it beyond that when it took a while for the property to sell.

[AndyOrch]

Interesting, when my Mum died I advised the local council that the property was unoccupied and I had removed the furniture, they then suspended all council tax payments for 6 months and even extended it beyond that when it took a while for the property to sell.

 

Normal on empty property..but the CTAX kicks back in on empty property after 8 months.

[honeybee13]

I've just dealt with the council tax department in North Somerset after my mother died. They allowed us 6 months from the date of getting probate with no council tax, plus all the time before that because my mother was in a care home. We just managed to sell the house in time not to start paying again.

 

HB

[lisadp1970]

Hi

 

I have an outstanding liability order for old council tax owing from about 7 years ago.

I fell behind with my repayments to the local authority who issued it so they set the bailiffs on me!

He has only ever knocked on my door once

 

 

somehow claimed that he's visited three times now to bump up the charges,

 

 

when he did knock I told him he wasn't coming in and and I had nothing to give him.

 

He pointed to my 14 year old Picasso on the drive and said he was taking that

(he would be lucky if it fetched £100 at auction)

 

 

i pointed out that it's needed to get my two Autistic sons to and from school safely.

He mumbled something and walked away.

Both my boys are in receipt of DLA, Mobility element and care element.

 

I called him later on and offered a monthly repayment of £20 which is all I can afford as we're on a low income and receive benefits to help with rent, council tax etc, but he said that's not acceptable and I have to pay in full (£3000+).

 

I've now received a letter stating their vehicles with ANPR camera are out and about and will take my car whenever or wheever they see it.

 

As I explained to them before this is a lifeline for my boys to get to school and go out, surely it's not allowed for them to take this from me, do they have to take into consideration that it's used for children with disabilities?

 

Any advice appreciated as I intend to call Penham tomorrow but want to know where I stand

 

Thanks

Lisa

[unclebulgaria67]

Empty threat as car is not of sufficient value to be taken. It would incur costs to be taken away. So won't happen. Rule is that the value of goods must go substantially towards debt owed and the bailiff fees.

 

You need to write a letter noting income/expenses, as well as your full circumstances. Send it to Penham Excel and the council the tax is owed to. You don't have to pay what you cannot afford. Offer the £20 a month. Do not allow anyone into your house. Keep doors locked. Don't open if they attend again. Keep everything in writing. Don't get into conversations on the phone or at the door.

[lisadp1970]

Thank you

[Bailiff Advice]

I would follow the advice given by Uncle Bulgaria. It really is important to ensure that you write to Penahm and copy the council in the correspondence (email is fine).

 

You really do need to emphasis the importance of the vehicle to your family whilst at the same time ensuring that you make clear that the vehicle is almost worthless.

 

Although it not that important at present, do you have details of the fees that you have been charged?

[dx100uk]

are the council CTAX dept aware of your two childrens issues?

this could be classed as a vulnerable household

[lisadp1970]

are the council CTAX dept aware of your two childrens issues?

this could be classed as a vulnerable household

 

I did tell them when I phoned to try and get my payments back on track but the woman I spoke was completely disinterested and said there was nothing she could do as it was with the Bailiffs now.

[dx100uk]

I would be writing to the head of CTAX dept not the phone staff.

inform them of your families issues..

 

 

also stay off that phone to the bailiff follow this:

.

Here is something to be getting on with.

First of all establish from the Council how much was owing etc

You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:

.

1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you

2 - the dates they were obtained

3 - the addresses they were for

4 - the period of time each covers

5 - how much each one was for

6 - how much is still outstanding

7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement

8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

.

.

Next you need to send off for a breakdown of the charges the Bailiff applied.

Here's an example, use and ADAPT at will and best sent initially by email

backed up by a copy in the post.

..

"From:

My Name

My Address

.

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

.

Ref: Account No: 123456

.

Dear Sir

.

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

.

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificatedicon at.

e - the date of the Certification.

.

This is not a Subject access requesticon under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

.

I require this information within 14 days.

.

Yours faithfully

.

Ripped off customer"