Good afternoon,

Please advise with this PCN,

i've stayed in that car park and paid for 4 hours ( Sunday)

was late at the end of shopping day to leave car park in 15 minutes

( also take 5-10 minutes after we enter in the park and paid at the cash machine, as we waiting others customer who told us he will clear a space - only one at that time ),

maybe that's why it give me now total 27 minutes overstayed paid 4 hours . ( I've assumed that's the reason for this PCN )

""For tickets received through the post (Notice to Keeper) please answer the following questions:

There were three tickets issued for the sake of clarity this is the answer for one of them:

1 Date of the infringement: 10/09/2017

2 Date on the NTK: 26/09/2017

3 Date received: 28/09/2017

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? No

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? No. ( just small note that CEL have photographic evidence )

6 Have you appealed? No.

Have you had a response? N/A

7 Who is the parking company? Civil Enforcment Ltd ( creditor) ,

8 Exactly where [car park name and town]: in the basement, Dagehams Guildford, 164 Millbrook, GU1 3UU, 1 pond/per hour .

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. they have siad with small notes is the BPA.

Also see attached my edited file (pdf extension- I've only deleted my name, address and car details).

Please advise if I should start appealing based on that they send this letter after 14 days from incident date ? I must also ask them photographic evidence to better understand why is this PCN ?

Thank you.

Also see attached my edited file (pdf extension- I've only deleted my name, address and car details).

Please rescan and redact the PCN number (showing in three places). Mr.P

siteteam

PCN ( saved ) - hiden name,car plate no..pdf

PCN ( saved ) - hiden name,car plate no..pdf

So you paid for parking, went shopping bought goods and have receipts, and these crooks want more money because you overstayed?

Appeal definitely, BUT wait for others to advise what you should include in your appeal to them, which they will ignore, but it's simply a paper trail exercise.

Wrote a long answer to this and lost it but anyway,

1) NTK is out of time to create keeper liability so tell them to do one (no need to be polite)

2) CEL don't use pofa so no keeper liability anyway

3) they use "balance of probabilities" that the keeper was the driver.

Tough, that fails in court every time,

they have to prove they know who the driver was. ( clue: they can't)

Don't shops shut at 4pm on Sundays?

So what's the parking problem after this time?

D

Oh and don't forget to complain to every shop you visited about why you're being penalised for shopping at their business, is won't be going there again.

Did you shop in Debenhams and if so, are you a Debenhams card holder?

If you are get on the phone to Debenhams head office and tell them how you are being treated and why you won't be shopping there ever again - they may well get the charge cancelled with no more effort on your part.

Also, when a company relies on photographic evidence to use papra 9 of the POFA they are supposed to send that with the NTK. As they havent the NTK is not a legal document anyway so you havent received one yet!

Do not respond to them, they will write again and then get some dca to write but ultimately you dont respond until they send a letter before action and they rarely follow that up as they always lose defended claims in court

Good afternoon all.

First of all, we didn't buy anything from Debenhams, just parking.

I remember that we paid for 4 hours because Sundays after 4pm all the shops will be closing. I'm sure that we were 10-15 minutes late because only a few car left in the basement at that hour, but not 27 minutes as it gives differences from PCN & ANPR camera, also all the time that parking ticket was visible in the windscreen .

Because they did not send any photographic evidence I do not know what it means for them

"Payment not made in accordance with terms displayed on signage"...

As ericsbrother suggests maybe it is best not to respond to them yet, and they will send a second letter and more details.

I will post here and scan all the future correspondence from this company.

Yes, send nothing, they've fallen at the first hurdle, let them dig their own grave.

this is not about parking or shopping, it is about contracts.

If convenient go back and get decent pictures of the entrance to the car park and also of the signage and the ticket machine.

In the meanwhile COMPLAIN to debenhams in writing (not email, they will just pass it on) and tell them you expect them to tell CEL to cancel.

By all means tell Debenhas that the letter from CEL break the law and you hold them responsible for their muppets actions and what are they doing about it?

I've just received from ZZPS, a new letter with total payment of £200 = late payment £140 + debt recovery charges £60.00.

Again just a letter with no other proves or photo's .

The main concern for me is that they increased parking "charge" and who knows how much it will become in a few days/months.

Any advice ?

The same advice, IGNORE!!

Did you ever do as Eric asked and get any photos?

ZZPS are a circus outfit plucking figures out of their behinds and trying to intimidate you into paying for something you don't owe.

File it away under ignore.

If you feel you want to respond somehow, let your local MP know how the cowboy clamping companies are now the cowboy private parking clowns.

Bazooka Boo is quite right-just ignore them.

According to POFA the maximum they can claim is what they state on their notices in the car park-usuallly £80 to £100.

In any event if you just sit tight your next letter will be a good news one-they are going to offer you a price reduction! Very kind of them until you realise that you do not owe them a penny.

Eventually they give up but there is the odd occasion when they do something really stupid and threaten Court action

. If they do that, come back to us and get the advice you need to blow them away. You will then definitely need the photos that Eric's brother asked for earlier.

So, you signed a credit agreement with them did you?

if you didnt then this is just unicorn food tax and you should look at the relevant law as suggested.

I've just received from ZZPS, a new letter with total payment of £200 = late payment £140 + debt recovery charges £60.00. Again just a letter with no other proves or photo's .

The main concern for me is that they increased parking "charge" and who knows how much it will become in a few days/months.

Any advice ?

I'm afraid that I do not have any photo's of that car park signs.

Now I've received the second letter from QDR Solicitors (in the name of ZZPS Limited as their Client) that it says if I do not paid full new increased amount of £236.00 within 14days they consider County Court Proceedings.

They have stipulated that if County Court Judgement (CCJ) will be against me will be entered in Register of Judgements, Orders and Fines for 6 years..

.Please advise what should I do at this point, as I do not want to go on Court and fight against big companies

... ( Just a remainder they did not send me any photo's or other proves, as far as I remember I've paid 4hours and over stay 15-20 minutes )

Even is unfair, tricky and without other proves or photo's , I'm just thinking now if was better to be paid them £80 first time, then now or in the future 4 or 5 times more..... I'm just concerned now about many letters in just a short time and increased warnings...

they cant do court only CEL can and they always lose so now don't bother

a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF

and has

ZERO LEGAL POWERS

the same goes for their fake/tame paper solicitor

same printer same threat-o-gram program as the others can from.

go read like threads!

You really need to have a read of some more of the threads on here and will see examples of the advice offered. Then of course you should have a read of the posts within this thread https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?405805-PPC-Successes-(No-Questions-please)(1-Viewing)-nbsp which are all successes.

As the solicitors clients have no powers or authority that makes the solicitors letter completely pointless.

As already determined, the parking co are out of time for creating a keeper liability so they are firing blanks when it comes to starting a fight.

Ignore them, CEL will come back to you and may be tempted to take action but they know that they will lose a defended claim so you really have nothing to worry about as long as you hold your nerve.

We will guide you through the process if they do want to lose money on a bet that you will the pay up, been there before so i can assure you that they are cowards and liars and will run away when the going gtes tough.

Ask yourself why the amount has increased to £236?

Did you sign a creidt agreement with them? No?

well then the amount can only ever be what was on the first invoice and as that wasnt good enough for the law then the amount you owe is ZERO

I'm afraid that I do not have any photo's of that car park signs.

 

Now I've received the second letter from QDR Solicitors (in the name of ZZPS Limited as their Client) that it says if I do not paid full new increased amount of £236.00 within 14days they consider County Court Proceedings.

 

They have stipulated that if County Court Judgement (CCJ) will be against me will be entered in Register of Judgements, Orders and Fines for 6 years..

 

.Please advise what should I do at this point, as I do not want to go on Court and fight against big companies

... ( Just a remainder they did not send me any photo's or other proves, as far as I remember I've paid 4hours and over stay 15-20 minutes )

 

Even is unfair, tricky and without other proves or photo's , I'm just thinking now if was better to be paid them £80 first time, then now or in the future 4 or 5 times more..... I'm just concerned now about many letters in just a short time and increased warnings...

Wow! Just checked and CEL (trading as starpark in this case) are members of the BPA so it beggars belief that they could get the NTK so wrong. I have googled the basement entrance of the Debehams and seen the signs on entry.

Payment must be made within 10 minutes of arrival but nothing about what would happen if you were 11 minutes. I'm guessing you had to put your registration number in at the P&D machine. As far as I can tell, the signs at the entrance do not convey any sort of invitation to treat although the images were taken in May 2017 and they may have changed in the interim so please get pictures. There is a tiny sign next to the pedestrian access sign which I cannot get a close up of. Even if it does state terms, it is too small to notice, especially if you turned left as you would have missed it.

As others have said, it is CEL who have to take action but not until they have sent a Letter Before Action/Claim. You have an absolute defence to this as the NTK is out of time and you are under no obligation to name the driver. Anyone in this country can drive your car with your permission. The fact that they haven't mentioned PoFA is grounds for complaint to the BPA but I think they will just refer you back to CEL and go through their complaints procedure.

Starpark and CEL are separate entities and they just havent informed Companies House that they are run behind the scenes by the same chancers and liars so breaching the law in that regard.

However, you have had 8 months to help yourself by providing us with the images and information we need to give you a proper opinion yet you havent been bothered to get your act together.

You should also read other threads and more widely about these people as well.

Did you send a letter to Debenhams? If so what did they say about this?

What have you been advised about the unicorn food tax that you are so worried about.

You havent taken that in nor read further about it yet say you are worried.

5 centuries ago people worried about falling off the edge of a flat world but accepted that ships sailed over the horizon thus showing it wasnt flat.

You have the information now turn that into knowledge

We can talk until the cows come home but it is for you to actually do things.

Thank you ericsbrother and all, for the responses and information. I will take some time to read all the posts, including the new ones.

also understand they were too late sending out the NTK to create a keeper liability and CEL's letters are too rubbish to get the wording right anyways.

so 2 separate companies so no locus standi, no keeper libility so in what capacity are they suing you, cant add to the £100 chage as they are relying on POFA ( yes, they cant do that so no liability) to bill you at all.

It is all about frightening you into paying up. they will normally get a lady to phone you a day or so before the court hearing offering to settle for less. There are no people working in the offices in liverpool, this is from a locality in Herts where CEL has no business but others related to Ashley do

Post up the clai form and if it is not a computerised issue from northampton who has signed it off? That can be telling

To give you an idea of what CEL are like their owner Ashley Cohen is a bit of a chameleon

Here on June 10th in a Witness Statement he was an administrator for the Coop

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/06/ashley-cohen-gets-yet-another-job.html

while here in another Witness Statement in June 2014 he is an administrator for CEL

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/06/ashley-cohen-gets-new-job.html

how do these crooks survive with something as blatant as that especially in a WS?

But it does give you extra ammunition when swatting away their claims.

also, when I got a court summone he was working for DEAL and was a solicitor as well. That got him into trouble with the courts service.

they get away with it because each case is looked at separately so you can continue to use the same lie in front of each judge once. Ony when you run out of different judges does it get sticky.

Hi again all,

Just for remembering my PCN issue date is 26.09.2017 ; Incident date is 10.09.2017 . Also date on the 1st envelope is 26-09.2017.

I've just received this morning ( Saturday 06Oct 2018) Claim Form from County Court Business Centre - Northampton NN1 2LH , with Issue Date 01Oct2018, where Claimant is CEL and Defendant is me. The letter include also N9A(SDT) Form of admission and N9B9(SDT) Defence and Couterclaim form. I've start reading first steps to Acknowledge Claim online using website moneyclaim . I can scan and attache this letter if necessary. Amount claimed is £255.81 , Court fee £25.00, Legal representative's costs £50.00 = Total amount £330.81 .

I have a few questions now.

- please tell me - Before entering on that web site, maybe is best first to ask for proves from CEL (maybe photo's and that I've paid for 4 hours as I remeber ) using CPR 31.14 Request, as sugested in other threads?

- in this claim form is only refering to Car park:- Debenhams Guildford with no address details as in first letter from CEL. Do I need to make any notice somewhere about that?

Manny thanks.

please complete this:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***

thread title updated

Follow the advice already given, you need to acknowledge the claim or you woant be able to do anything. You will them have another fortnight to string a couple of sentences together for an outline of your defence. As siad, they dont turn up so call theirbluff.

As for asking for sight of their evidence, that is for much furhter down the line and I doubt if it will ever get that far.