Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 3665 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

i am not in receipt of any benefits

 

may i ask what DMA is, you said she was going to refer you

 

DMA is Decision Making and Appeals, the DWP section that decides whether or not sanctions should be applied for this sort of thing. In the case San_d described, it was clearly being used as an empty threat.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING. EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

The idea that all politicians lie is music to the ears of the most egregious liars.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

signed this morning.it's mandatory from Monday.i mentioned ticking the box so they can't see what i've done,my advisor who's very nice by the way.more or less said a sanction doubt would be raised.

It has yet to be established that creating an account within Universal Job Match is mandatory, or whether staff are giving the impression that it is going to be mandatory. In any event, the tickbox is irrelevant given that, in creating an account, the Terms and Conditions and Privacy Agreement which candidates must accept gives the authority to the DWP to disseminate Account Information to any designated party.

Link to post
Share on other sites

3]It has yet to be established that creating an account within Universal Job Match is mandatory[/b]' date=' or whether staff are giving the impression that it is going to be mandatory. In any event, the tickbox is irrelevant given that, in creating an account, the Terms and Conditions and Privacy Agreement which candidates must accept gives the authority to the DWP to disseminate Account Information to any designated party.[/quote']

 

 

my advisor said it was and if i wanted to see his supervisor to confirm it he'd call him over..as i said he's sound so i never pushed it any further.. i know this lad from outside the jobcentre so i totally believe what he was saying...

Edited by ismael urzaiz
Link to post
Share on other sites

signed this morning.it's mandatory from Monday.i mentioned ticking the box so they can't see what i've done,my advisor who's very nice by the way.more or less said a sanction doubt would be raised.

On what grounds could a sanction doubt be raised? It's this kind of nonsense that's got the DWP in trouble over the Poundland business: Quickly rushing out statutes and regulations without checking the actual legalility of them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

my advisor said it was and if i wanted to see his supervisor to confirm it he'd call him over..as i said he's sound so i never pushed it any further.. i know this lad from outside the jobcentre so i totally believe what he was saying...

There is, of course, nothing to stop a candidate from using Universal Job Match as a Job Search Portal, and having found a number of job leads, then proceed to apply for each, whilst maintaining a Job Search Record.

 

According to the Universal Job Match Toolkit, reported by the PCS Union most recently updated 17 Jan 2013

http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/department_for_work_and_pensions_group/dwp-news.cfm/id/78E359C6-7B09-4FC6-98EBD4696432C199

 

Jobseeker Directions and Mandatory Use of UJ

PCS was aware that, despite assurances otherwise from the UJ project of DWP, management in some jobcentre districts were instructing advisers to tell claimants that UJ is mandatory and access must given to the DWP.

 

As a result of legal challenges and negative press attention, DWP have revised the guidance on UJ to make it clear that this cannot be done. The UJ Jobmatch toolkit chapter 3, paragraph 50, states: “You cannot issue a Jobseeker’s Direction to either require a claimant to create a profile and CV in Universal Jobmatch or to mandate a claimant to give us access to their account – this is their decision not ours.” Paragraph 52 also states that “We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this.”

 

PCS is awaiting clarification from DWP management on the status of the many Jobseeker Directions that were incorrectly issued to claimants before the guidance was clarified. PCS members should contact their local representative to challenge any instruction to inform claimants that the use of UJ or access to it is mandatory.

 

Although it may be mandatory to create a UJ Account, and a JCS Advisor may aggressively suggest that it is mandatory, calling into the discussion any number of Supervisors and Managers, it may not be... and Managers may simply be responding to the pressure which is being placed on them from their Managers to coerce as many candidates as possible to sign up to UJ.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the email printed in front of me however in light of the court proceeding regarding the recent work experience the madation to use UJM has been put back until sometime in March now.

Jobseekers will be required to register an account and use that for their job search however it will not be mandatory to provide permission for the DWP to vuew the account the same as it is now, but the customer will be required to print off evidence of job search especially to show if matched vacancies have been given by te adviser to prove that an application was made and by what method on what date.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Could someone please let me know how you could be forced into signing up to UJM if you have no computer and cant use one?

It wouldnt be right to sanction me if I just cant manage to learn how to use a computer. Also who pays for phone line, broadband, computer, printer and ink? I dont get enough to pay for all of that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

but the customer will be required to print off evidence of job search especially to show if matched vacancies have been given by te adviser to prove that an application was made and by what method on what date.

Flumpster, does that mean emailing screenshots is out of the question? That's a lot of printing for poor folk to afford.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You will be booked to a local facility or one of the internet access devices within the JCP and an account will be set up with you by your adviser (if on work program the providers will do this with you).

Further details will be made available closer to the time.

Haw haw... you know what that means? They Don't Know! They have no real idea of how this is going to work themselves and that's why it keeps getting put back and put back. Apparently they're going to have disabled and sick going theough all this too, Freud's just stood in the House of Lords and announced that while WCA appellants are waiting for their reconsideration they won't get ESA at all, not even at the basic rate, so people will have to claim JSA while they're waiting. Does this mean for them it won't be conditional as it normally would be? Nobody knows! It's an absolute shambles and it's going to get ten times worse after April when all these new laws kick in.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You will be booked to a local facility or one of the internet access devices within the JCP and an account will be set up with you by your adviser (if on work program the providers will do this with you).

Further details will be made available closer to the time.

 

Thanks for the answer.

I take it then that someone who cant use a computer physicaly or through lack of computer skills will have one to one help throughout the use of UJM? Like at every visit?

 

I cant wait to watch them pull their hair out when I press delete instead of enter lol

 

It will use up a lot of man power having someone hold the hands of those who cant use a computer.

 

Anyway thanks again and look forward to the next government shambles.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey I'm not an adviser and am doing my best to try and give the answers to the questions that people ask.

 

As I have stated before I have to be extremely careful about what can and cannot be posted sorry.

 

With regards to the emailing of a screen shot I don't know as details haven't been posted to those of us who happen to work in the offices where the work is actually done, you can always ask your adviser if that would be sufficent but in all honesty I don't know, the advisory team are informed of these changes sooner than the rest of us who work in the JCP offices, the email that initially went out to advise that guidance was being changed (not finalised but due to be) was sent to the advisory team before being sent to the rest of the office. I posted on here to say that an email had been sent out and I hadn't had time to read it as I had to leave to collect my children from school and because I could specifically say yes from this date and under tese regs a few posters didn't believe me.

That is their choice of course but I'll be damned if I put myself through that again.

I can only advise that any questions that you have are directed to your advisor as it doesn't appear that I can answer questions on this without causing more problems which is not what I want to do.

  • Confused 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

quote_icon.png Originally Posted by flumps1976 viewpost-right.png

but the customer will be required to print off evidence of job search especially to show if matched vacancies have been given by te adviser to prove that an application was made and by what method on what date.

Flumpster, does that mean emailing screenshots is out of the question? That's a lot of printing for poor folk to afford.

There remains some confusion over what Universal Job Match represents. Although, upon creating an account in Universal Job Match, candidates may be matched to Job Leads according to any number of factors (including automatic matching, personal choice, through the intervention of Delegated Authorities - such Admin Staff within JCP and plebs within the W2W Sector), there is no guarantee at the time of being matched to a specific job lead that each one represents a legitimate vacancy which may be applied for.

 

Candidates, upon creating an account within UJ, must agree to both Terms and Conditions and Privacy Conditions, within which the Monster Corporation explicitly makes it clear that they do not accept responsibility or liability for incorrect information on any external website. Ignoring such trivial concerns as the Data Protection Act, Cookies Policy etc, the reality is that candidates may be matched to job leads which do not exist. In some cases, if the candidate has to apply via an external Jobs Aggregator, then if a message is generated "the closing date for this vacancy has been passed" or "Error 404", the candidate may not even be able to confirm the name of the employer. Although an employer/agency may post a vacancy through any number of outlets, including Universal Job Match, they may pull the vacancy when filled (without reporting the matter to JCP or withdrawing the vacancy from UJ), or may even post incorrect information on UJ. This happened under the previous arrangement, and is nothing new.

 

Unfortunately for the candidate, if the DWP presumes that each Job Lead represents a legitimate vacancy, and the candidate has been matched to any number of Job Leads, if the candidate cannot prove that they have applied for each and every Job Lead, a sanction doubt will be raised.

 

Universal Job Match could become a good, great or even excellent system, if only for the fact that it remains a "work in progress", has not been fully tested, and neither the Job Seeker nor JCP Staff should be party to an alpha phase testing strategy.

Edited by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted
Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem - when UJ becomes mandatory - will be the Jobcentre's usual policy of seeing everything in pure black and white; either you applied for the job or you didn't (and it doesn't matter about 'trivial' reasons like the vacancy not being genuine, the vacancy having expired, you applied via another route, the website not working, etc).

 

During my time with them, they've shown almost total inflexibility..even when they're aware of the rules, which most times they aren't.

 

I can see advisors - who always claim to be 'pushed for time' - quickly scanning someone's jobsearch record on UJ and hitting the 'refer for sanction' button at the first sign of apparent non-compliance. As usual, shoot first then cry 'Halt!' later. We're going to have to be on our toes to keep on top of them!

 

In an ideal world, I have a lovely mental picture of an advisor checking their pay at the end of the month and finding they're 2 weeks short. Upon questioning their manager, they're told 'Oh, you gave incorrect advice to a claimant so you've been sanctioned 2 weeks pay - didn't anyone bother to tell you then?'.

 

Seems quite fair to me :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a laugh this morning, the email from the UJM system (which was picking up on some skills I deleted due to my lack of experience in those skills) ended up in my Spam folder!

 

None of the jobs were suitable as I haven't used the particular systems for four years now.

 

I was well peeved on Monday when I went to the UJM centre, and apparently my feedback has been noted. I told my adviser I now know NOT to make any appointments in town on the day I see them as I've only been seen once on time. Just as well I don't have kids to pick up or car parking charges to worry about.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Advisor I saw today struggled to get into UJM himself...

 

He did however pass me a vacancy for a shop supervisor. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for thinking outside the box, but I doubt the shop in question will want someone who's been an administrator since the early 90s with very little retail experience, let alone little experience of supervising anyone :|

Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else get the DWP letter now called: Schemes for Assisting Persons to Obtain Employment.

 

Anyone know now if we can claim back the payments we were sanctioned for since they had no right

to stop the payments since the so called Scheme/s were illegal?

 

May just write into DWP asking for the 4 weeks Sanction payments I lost in December, see what they say.

 

George

Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else get the DWP letter now called: Schemes for Assisting Persons to Obtain Employment.

I think everyone on WP would have got that letter George. Apart from the new scheme we're all apparently taking part in now, they like to remind you regularly that they will sanction you given half a chance.

 

Anyone know now if we can claim back the payments we were sanctioned for since they had no right

to stop the payments since the so called Scheme/s were illegal?

I'm guessing not a hope in hell...

 

May just write into DWP asking for the 4 weeks Sanction payments I lost in December, see what they say.

 

George

...but good luck with that ;-)

 

 

edit: Oh, there's a 'work program letter' thread. Yep, looks like we all got the warning,,,erm, letter.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...