I had similar problem a few years back with my gas meter.

Unfortunately I was not aware of consequences of meter changes.

A different company insisted by threatening me with Court action to change my meter.

So they did and I had many problems like yours.

However, I am having similar problems with npower insisting on changing my electricity meter

- it was inspected just a few months back and the inspector assured me that meter was in perfect order.

despite that I have received 15 letters,so far, to let them in to change it!

I may sound mad, but I've come to believe there must be an agenda behind the persistence.

I have a number of friends who are having very similar problems which are nothing to do with their usage.

After the meter was changed, they have received huge unjustified bills.

I keep looking on Cag to find what the real story is, where can I find info?

regards

Having had Dual accounts with them since 2005 and paying whatever their DD asked for,

they suddenly produced a table of calculations which did not make sense.

Fictitious estimated yearly gas balances for the past 6 years were marked as "cancelled", and the new balances shown amounted to more than £12k.

I now note that, for the first 2 bills produced, they made a mistake, using 4 digits of readings as opposed to 5.

I always provided 5 figure readings to them.

From then on they ignored actual readings provided to them.

Problem becomes complex whereby, because the account is dual, parts of bills for electricity usage seem to appear in order,

whilst the parts for gas usage are either missing or showing '5 digit' estimated figures throughout the years.

I have a number of my handwritten notes with dates and meter readings I supplied to them.

I also have hand written notes of my complaints to them on the phone urging them to use actual readings.

They also, on number of occasions had their own man read the meters of which I do not have a record.

Question1: Can they ask me to back pay for that long even if calculations were correct?

Question2: They claim they have had no meter readings.

How can I use my hand written notes as evidence to challenge them?

Question3: My payments to them _as shown on bank statements are denied by them.

On examining DD payments, I note many of payment Ref. numbers do not match my account numbers, nor their ID number.

Assorted account numbers are shown against my payments. Is that significant?

Question4: On their demand notice/bill for 12k, I note, they have used a different account number to mine, however, the meter serial number matches mine.

The bill is certainly issued to me, it does not belong to another user. Is that significant and if so, how do I address this issue?

Question5: Above started on April of this year, all my attempts to get an answer failed, until June when I asked my solicitors to handle it_too much stress as they harassed me with debt collectors calling in at night. Nevertheless, I have not had any success. Lots of direct letters promising to investigate together with number of demands and, at the same time, 'refusing' to call off debt collectors. The latest is accompanied with yet another meaningless set of calculations reaching at the same alleged amount.

Question6: Today, I received a letter from them, with yet another set of nonsense figures. They now ask me to pay for the last 2 years, admitting their mistake with 4 digits. It is to point out that their mistake with 4 digit was rectified shortly when they started to produce 5 digit estimates.

However, they say they do that as a gesture of good will!

They persist on their allegation of having no meter readings.

They are asking me to pay around £4k, and to set up a DD for £300.00 a month.

None of these figures make sense, and I do not accept their calculations of past 2 years which is again based on false accounting.

Which Rules/Codes of conduct should I be referring to regarding all above?

If I ever resolve this, can I ask for compensation with view to their negligence, delay, appointing 2 debt collectors

and charging their costs to me and reading my meter which is within boundary of my home without my permission.

Question7: They now want to change my electricity meter, they say is old, how can I hold them back until all matters are resolved as there seem to be problems with electricity figures as well_ they have, at times, alleged that all my payments were towards electricity usage!

I am sorry for such long letter, I am not very familiar with your procedures, I am just so desperate for your guidance. Thanks

If they change the electric meter now it may cause a lot of other problems.

Make sure you tell them in writing that you have no objection to the meter being changed once the current issue has been resolved

as you do not want to complicate it with new meter readings on a different meter in case there is an issue with the current meter.

At the first opportunity change supplier.

We would never change back to Npower who seem to love incorrect bills.

They tried to bill our neighbour for over £2000 gas usage, but she doesn't have gas.

I am sure that they cannot back bill you for than 1 year due to their mistake.

Check your old bills for readings adn see which ones were estimates and which were true readings.

Your handwritten notes will not be proof that readings were supplied however the regualtions state that they should be reading your meter at least once every two years.

If they have not done so, they may be on shaky ground.

Perhaps they have allocated the payment to some one else's account.

Have a look on your bill for the meter serial number and make sure that it corresponds with the meter serial number on the property.

As for debt collectors it is easy to get rid of them as tell them that the bill is in dispute and that they have to hand it back to Npower.

Many thanks Surfer01 for your speedy advice.

I shall do re. electricity meter as you said.

How can I change suppliers when I can not resolve this problem.

I thought others would not accept me as long as there is a dispute, is there a way?

or do you think I can change my electricity account, bearing in mind that sometimes npower refers to my account as Dual although they have been charging two DD a month.

I have only two initial bills with actual figures. The rest are all estimated.

I have argued with them a number of times throughout the years but never succeeded.

Re. they should be reading the meter at least once every two years!

Indeed they did, many times over, but they deny it now.

I have also had bouts of reminder attacks in the past when they were sending 4 identical requests in a day_dated the same_ for my meter readings - not for their agent to do it.

On each instance, I telephoned and gave them the readings.

On a number of times, when I complained about repeated requests, when I had already supplied them, they apologised.

They have left notes of their visits to read the meter whilst giving me the option to read it myself.

At times, as and when they called in, which happened a number of times a year, I just let them in to read it..

They are now falsely claiming that they never got access, and apart from my dates and meter reading notes, I don't seem able to prove it otherwise.

In that case, would I lose the battle, or is there a way?

I have checked the meter number, it is mine.

However, looking at my bills,

in 2009, they seem to have changed my dual account number, and where individual gas and electricity accounts are stated within that account,

those differ from initial account numbers I have had from 2006 and my Contract details.

Accordingly, their DD reference numbers on my bank statements reflect this change.

But what good would this discovery do me, I wonder.

I got rid of first debt collector with a lot of difficulty, they then employed a more aggressive one who was persistent to come in.

Is it legal that he read out my meter without my permission?

Can I make an objection? and should I be paying for their costs as npower is asking.

How can I tell npower that they can not go back for more than 1 year?

If they succeed with their false no access claim, then can I still follow the one year limit line?

Sorry to trouble,

I am trying to establish ways I can defend myself.

With all my documents and bills kept since 2005, I thought I would be able to prove something, but what?

Do you have dual duel with Npower, that is your gas and electric are registered with them.

I think the best approach is to send a SAR and asking for all paperwork including meter reads, copies of D flows, notes and transcripts of conversations.

This will cost you £10 and you should receive the documentation in chronological order.

The D flows are what the industry use to pass on information such as registration, meter readings, house visits, etc

and would be one of your most valuable tools because if the flow shows a meter read received on i.e. 01.10.20 10 it should have been inputted into the system.

They are not used for estimates.

Many thanks for your advice re. asking for SAR, I shall do that with confidence, no doubt it would give me a firmer position.

May I also trouble you with one or two other issues.

(1): Against my repeated requests for current bills, they refused to send any since their alleged demands started.

Indeed gas account was in dispute but we did not have a problem with electricity.

They had regular readings and could have issued bills.

I wrote that whilst dispute with gas was on going, nevertheless I would like to pay for my current usage, gas and electric.

Do I have a point here?

(2): From the beginning, they set up a dual account as part of the initial contract, I have a copy of this. However, they never referred to that account number further on.

They issued separate bills for gas and electricity under initial individual account numbers, affecting stated DD amounts to electricity but not to gas.

In 2009 they informed me that they had set up a dual account with a single DD.

DD ref. numbers on bank statements referred to new dual account number from then on.

Is this significant? should they have carried on according to initial Contract and with details of Dual account_ at least till 2009?

(3): I now note that Prior to new dual account, DD ref numbers on bank statements referred to different individual gas and electricity account numbers

which did not match with those on the bills.

Somewhere, they chose to use different account numbers on the bills issued.

However, bills still showed my meters serial numbers.

Do I have a point here?

(4): With back billing for one year, if I don't manage to prove they have had meter readings, can I still follow that path.

And if so, what happens to all the moneys (£5K) I paid towards their incorrect billing.

I am not sure on dual accounts, but would have thought that it would have been one account for both and only one DD otherwise

what is the point of having both supplies with the same supplier as it will not be cheaper.

We would never entrust the same supplier with both our gas and electric supplies.

Once you have your SAR you will be in a better position to understand where it all went wrong.

Get the SAR off as soon as possible.

Secondly send another letter by registered post for a signature stating that you are disputing the bill

and you are waiting for them to fulfill the SAR obligation before you cna take it any further

and in the meantime according to OFT guidelines as the debt is in dispute, they need to suspend any debt collection processes.

This will give you some breathing space.

Do this ASAP!

Check your bank statements and do up a spreadsheet showing date paid and amount.

Reference them by account number as you will need this when you get your SAR.

Dual account, indeed! as you say, it's not cheaper.

I first got the electricity account with them.

Once that was setup, I opened a gas account as well.

I have it all in writing when they then set up a dual account on their own accord.

This dual account contained the two individual account numbers as well as having it's own account number.

They then forgot all about it, and started to bill individually until 2009 when they decided to set up another dual account with just one DD.

Prior to that, I had 2 DD s for electricity and gas respectively!

I am afraid they do have a spreadsheet that I prepared to showed them my payments, but to date, they have refused to investigate or even acknowledge the receipt!.

As you advised, I have now asked them for my SAR, however I am going to write a letter now to include the points you have suggested.

I hope they don't mess me about with the SAR.

Shall I also call the electricity account 'in dispute' too, as last month they made me send a cheque for £1k as they put it" for outstanding electricity balance".

Under pressure, I made this payment despite the knowledge that I did not owe them any outstanding amounts_

_my DD payments had already accumulated substantial credit for electricity.

I thought it would keep them quiet and at the end, we will work it out into the total balance.

Was I wrong?

many many thanks for your help,

I truly appreciate it.

get the ombudsman involved

ofgen/ofgas i think.

dx

Once you have the SAR and worked out everything, if they have overcharged you, request an immediate refund plus interest and costs.

Costs will be your time in resolving the fiasco and cost of SAR.

We had huge problems with Npower even though we weren't even a customer of theirs and they ended up paying us compensation.

Have you tried moving suppliers as they may not be able to stop you moving?

If they do, another reason to claim more compensation.

Debt collectors on behalf on energy company claimed they had a warrant from Hendon Magistrates to force entry to my home.

This had no real cause and energy company had fabricated the debt by not sending bills.

They had monthly standing order from me.

On receipt of notice from debt collectors

I awaited to receive Claim & Response forms from them to defend myself.

However, they ambushed me one day with a large team to force entry to my home.

I called the police whio told me they had a warrant, and if I resisted, they would arrest me.

Afterwards when I contacted for a copy of so called warrant, the Administer of Justice at the court told me there were no warrants "as such".

The energy company takes a batch of claims to the magistrates who summarily gives them the OK for forced entry.

She said I could not make an appeal and I had to take legal action against all of them.

Where do I stand here?

Whom should I go to.

My credit card company is willing to help me to get the money (£3000.00 they got on that day to go away)

providing I gave them details such as claim number and warrant.

They would not let me see the so called warrant on that day.

The police in their support told me if they brought the warrant close to me I might grab and tear it!

Did the magistrates commit misconduct in public office?

Did the energy company or debt collectors went against human rights and harassment laws?

please help urgently, I am desperate.

msshe

I have moved this thread to the Bailiff section and hopefully you will receive some advice on what you can do.

This is purely an administrative move and you need do nothing.

Debt collectors on behalf on energy company claimed they had a warrant from Hendon Magistrates to force entry to my home. This had no real cause and energy company had fabricated the debt by not sending bills. They had monthly standing order from me.

 

 

On receipt of notice from debt collectors I awaited to receive Claim & Response forms from them to defend myself. However, they ambushed me one day with a large team to force entry to my home. I called the police whio told me they had a warrant, and if I resisted, they would arrest me. Afterwards when I contacted for a copy of so called warrant, the Administer of Justice at the court told me there were no warrants "as such".

 

The energy company takes a batch of claims to the magistrates who summarily gives them the OK for forced entry. She said I could not make an appeal and I had to take legal action against all of them.

 

Where do I stand here? Whom should I go to. My credit card company is willing to help me to get the money (£3000.00 they got on that day to go away) providing I gave them details such as claim number and warrant. They would not let me see the so called warrant on that day. The police in their support told me if they brought the warrant close to me I might grab and tear it!

 

 

Did the magistrates commit misconduct in public office? Did the energy company or debt collectors went against human rights and harassment laws? please help urgently, I am desperate.

msshe

Speak to the Energy Ombudsman about this.

Energy companies are allowed by legislation to force entry into peoples homes to fit prepayment meters.

I believe this was done when a previous government privitised the energy markets.

They simply go to the Magistrate and it is an admin exercise to gain their go ahead to force entry.

From what I have read, there is no warrant that is produced.

Find out what you can about the legislation that allows the energy company to force entry and about billing.

Then consider your options about what to do about this.

You could issue a court claim, but this is not wise unless you have obtained legal advice first.

You could find yourself up against the Energy Companies legal team.

Your local MP may be willing to write to the company on your behalf.

This link provides some info.

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/yourrights/privacy/power-of-officials-to-enter-your-home/gas-and-electricity-boards.html

Were you sent notification that they were going to apply for a Warrant? Did you contact or attend the Court?

Good advice being given and there is little further that I could add.

There are provisions for forced entry but this is normally to change a meter to pay/token meter etc.

you say they have never sent you any bills?

dx

could you ma,e this energyco please, as there is one company in particular that has a propensity to screw up billing bigstyle then go for forced entry.

I did not.

I was advised by CAB to wait to receive Claim and Response form.

I thought they would send those after filing their claim with the court.

Then I would have a chance to respond in writing and attend a hearing during which they would make an application to force entry if I did not succeed.

I am now told that it is at the energy company's or their agent's discretion to send forms.

They are not obliged to do so.

I have spoken to the Ombudsman.

They assure me that they do not have powers to stop force entry.

The energy company misrepresented to the Ombudsman and the court by fabricating a large debt.

Last year they ignored Actual meter readings and billed on estimated usage.

They then, against my requests, refused to send bills altogether.

I first heard of a huge figure through their debt collectors followed by their raid.

I must mention that they have been receiving monthly payments (as they suggested) "towards current and future usage until the outstanding dispute is resolved by the Ombudsman".

I need to find out what legal route they went through that would allow them to get the green light to force entry.

Didn't the magistrates ask whether the defendant had responded, or where the claim form was?

Yes they had not sent a bill for current usage based on actual readings.

However, for this particular raid, they apparently had only addressed the current usage which they fabricated.

I did not know where the amount demanded by their debt collectors came from.

They had written a few weeks back apologising for not issuing bills and promising to do so very soon.

I am now very concerned as, now they have sent me estimated bills with yet another fabricated amount of around £5k!

They have ignored Actual readings and based it on unrealistic huge estimates.

Apparently the bill took more than 12 days to reach me giving me deadline of 1 working day to pay.

I contacted the courts to see if I could get an injunction to stop the eminent next raid.

I was told I can not do a thing. Just wait!

If they do not send notifications, which apparently they can, then I just have to sit and wait for the repeat of that horrendous experience.

I need to find exactly what they did at the court last time.

It would help to see if I can I stop the next raid until the Ombudsman gives his verdict for historic dispute.

Have they gained entry ?

Have they changed the meter to a pre-payment meter ?

What do they wish to gain by entering your home?

Fit a new meter?

Read the current meter?

I think you may now be better in the Utilities Forum.

Debt collectors on behalf on energy company claimed they had a warrant from Hendon Magistrates to force entry to my home.

This had no real cause and energy company had fabricated the debt by not sending bills.

They had monthly standing order from me.

 

 

On receipt of notice from debt collectors

I awaited to receive Claim & Response forms from them to defend myself.

 

However, they ambushed me one day with a large team to force entry to my home.

 

I called the police whio told me they had a warrant, and if I resisted, they would arrest me.

 

Afterwards when I contacted for a copy of so called warrant, the Administer of Justice at the court told me there were no warrants "as such".

 

The energy company takes a batch of claims to the magistrates who summarily gives them the OK for forced entry.

 

She said I could not make an appeal and I had to take legal action against all of them.

 

Where do I stand here?

Whom should I go to.

 

My credit card company is willing to help me to get the money (£3000.00 they got on that day to go away)

providing I gave them details such as claim number and warrant.

 

They would not let me see the so called warrant on that day.

 

The police in their support told me if they brought the warrant close to me I might grab and tear it!

 

 

Did the magistrates commit misconduct in public office?

 

Did the energy company or debt collectors went against human rights and harassment laws?

 

please help urgently, I am desperate.

msshe

I did not. I was advised by CAB to wait to receive Claim and Response form. I thought they would send those after filing their claim with the court. Then I would have a chance to respond in writing and attend a hearing during which they would make an application to force entry if I did not succeed.

I am now told that it is at the energy company's or their agent's discretion to send forms. They are not obliged to do so.

I have spoken to the Ombudsman. They assure me that they do not have powers to stop force entry. The energy company misrepresented to the Ombudsman and the court by fabricating a large debt. Last year they ignored Actual meter readings and billed on estimated usage. They then, against my requests, refused to send bills altogether. I first heard of a huge figure through their debt collectors followed by their raid. I must mention that they have been receiving monthly payments (as they suggested) "towards current and future usage until the outstanding dispute is resolved by the Ombudsman".

I need to find out what legal route they went through that would allow them to get the green light to force entry. Didn't the magistrates ask whether the defendant had responded, or where the claim form was?

Yes they had not sent a bill for current usage based on actual readings. However, for this particular raid, they apparently had only addressed the current usage which they fabricated. I did not know where the amount demanded by their debt collectors came from. They had written a few weeks back apologising for not issuing bills and promising to do so very soon.

 

I am now very concerned as, now they have sent me estimated bills with yet another fabricated amount of around £5k! They have ignored Actual readings and based it on unrealistic huge estimates. Apparently the bill took more than 12 days to reach me giving me deadline of 1 working day to pay. I contacted the courts to see if I could get an injunction to stop the eminent next raid. I was told I can not do a thing. Just wait! If they do not send notifications, which apparently they can, then I just have to sit and wait for the repeat of that horrendous experience. I need to find exactly what they did at the court last time. It would help to see if I can I stop the next raid until the Ombudsman gives his verdict for historic dispute.

I think you may now be better in the Utilities Forum.

.

OP Previous thread

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?373704-Npower-built-up-fictitious-bill-for-over-%A312k-cancelling-my-accounts-for-past-6-years

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you say they have never sent you any bills?

 

dx

Wish I had a pound for every time that question was asked and the answer comes back as No !

Can I ask for SAR if the Ombudsman gets involved?