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    • its not about the migrants .. Barrister Helena Kennedy warns that the Conservatives will use their victory over Rwanda to dismantle the law that protects our human rights here in the UK.   Angela Rayner made fun of Rishi Sunak’s height in a fiery exchange at Prime Minister’s Questions, which prompted Joe Murphy to ask: just how low will Labour go? .. well .. not as low as sunak 
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    • Northmonk forget what I said about your Notice to Hirer being the best I have seen . Though it  still may be  it is not good enough to comply with PoFA. Before looking at the NTH, we can look at the original Notice to Keeper. That is not compliant. First the period of parking as sated on their PCN is not actually the period of parking but a misstatement  since it is only the arrival and departure times of your vehicle. The parking period  is exactly that -ie the time youwere actually parked in a parking spot.  If you have to drive around to find a place to park the act of driving means that you couldn't have been parked at the same time. Likewise when you left the parking place and drove to the exit that could not be describes as parking either. So the first fail is  failing to specify the parking period. Section9 [2][a] In S9[2][f] the Act states  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN fails to mention the words in parentheses despite Section 9 [2]starting by saying "The notice must—..." As the Notice to Keeper fails to comply with the Act,  it follows that the Notice to Hirer cannot be pursued as they couldn't get the NTH compliant. Even if the the NTH was adjudged  as not  being affected by the non compliance of the NTK, the Notice to Hirer is itself not compliant with the Act. Once again the PCN fails to get the parking period correct. That alone is enough to have the claim dismissed as the PCN fails to comply with PoFA. Second S14 [5] states " (5)The notice to Hirer must— (a)inform the hirer that by virtue of this paragraph any unpaid parking charges (being parking charges specified in the notice to keeper) may be recovered from the hirer; ON their NTH , NPE claim "The driver of the above vehicle is liable ........" when the driver is not liable at all, only the hirer is liable. The driver and the hirer may be different people, but with a NTH, only the hirer is liable so to demand the driver pay the charge  fails to comply with PoFA and so the NPE claim must fail. I seem to remember that you have confirmed you received a copy of the original PCN sent to  the Hire company plus copies of the contract you have with the Hire company and the agreement that you are responsible for breaches of the Law etc. If not then you can add those fails too.
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Ukpc windscreen pcn - Parked in Disabled bay - No BB - Valley Retail Park Croydon


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convert the 1st jpg to pdf please so we can zoom

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I'd be getting back on to the leasing company and tell (not ask) them to get their act together, read the relevant sections of POFA and send a compliant notice to UKPC to transfer liability to you as the hirer.

 

 

And that if they decide to pay a non statutory invoice (do not use the words fine or charge) that they'll be doing so out of their own pockets as you will not be liable for it and that you're quite prepared to return the vehicle and cancel the lease due to their breach of their terms & conditions and thereby their breach of contract.

 

Call their bluff.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Don't think they can demand a letter of liability

The lease co. Did not enter into the game contract the driver did.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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When they issue tickets for the same thing to private individuals and that person tells them they have got it all wrong and invite them to do their worst UKPC go quiet.

 

They are only pursuing this beacuse it is a lease car and they think ( with good reason ) the lease co will pay up regardless and the fight between them and the lessee is of no interest to them.

 

You must impress on the leasing co that there is no bill to pay and if they pay on yoru behalf and then try adding it to yoru contract you will be taking them to court so it will cost them more in the long run than telling UKPC where to go.

 

If UkPC want to name you (or whoever) as driver them let them. There is still enoug wrong with their signage at that site to fight this

Edited by DragonFly1967
paras
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Ok thanks for the advice, I’ve emailed the lease company using the wording you provided. So far they have not responded or acknowledged my email.

 

I sent a second email asking them to confirm receipt of email - nothing

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  • 3 weeks later...

I mailed the letter to lease company (as advised above).

 

I've received two letters yesterday - 1) from the lease company chasing my Brothers company for payment of the invoice £100 + £15 admin fee from them (i.e. my Brother's co. has the contract with the lease car co. but I was the driver) and 2) a letter to my Brother's company from UKPC directly chasing payment £100.

 

I will upload snapshots of the relevant docs for your review asap today.

1 May letter to Company no.1.pdf

Edited by FantasticDay
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Their letter is a copy and paste form letter. The wording makes it seem as if they think its a local authority that issued it. They prob dont care if its a private unenforceable invoice. its just a quick and cheap letter they throw out.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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he can tell the lease co that as they gave his name and address out then 2 things are matters for them to consider.

 

Firstly, as it isnt a fine they are absolved from any liability under the POFA by naming him and therfore they no longer have an interest in the matter and they cant chage £15 for a non-event.

 

Secondly as UKPC have attempted to create a liability with him no-one should be contacting the lease co and to continue to do so breached the conditions of the POFA and that means they can sue UKPC for harassment and he will happily be a witness to this action and will claim his expenses for doing to as part of a costs order but should they pay up and claim the money from him he will sue them for breach of contract

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they don't understand the difference so blindly do it

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi there, thanks for all the advice , my brother is drafting the letter to the lease company.

 

I checked the agreement with the lease company (i.e. about passing data and 'fines and contraventions') see attached for your review.

 

My brother is happy to allow me to fight this ..but is worried about impact to his company CCJ etc.

 

Do you see any issue with the agreement?

How can I reassure my bro?

 

Thanks again for your help.

Snip from agreement with Lease Company_Data_and_Parking Fines.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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No CCJ will ever happen if you follow the advice here.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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says FINE liability these are NOT FINES nor PENALTIES

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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indeed. None of that applies to your friend. Ther is no fine. There is no penalty. just a speculative invoice.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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they mention private parking companies- using what definition under the Road Traffic Act or other relevant legislation that apply to FINES. Even Companies House doesnt have a category for them so what are they exactly?

sloppy wording used as a get out by them doesnt make it an enforceable condition

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hi there

 

So my brother’s company have received another letter from UKPC dated 30 May saying that if the anmount is not paid within 14 days they will pass to debt collection agency ...followed by Country Court if necessary (oh dear this is sounding very scary now).

 

In addition to this - the lease company has take £18 via direct debit.

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Then go get the £18 back by chargeback

 

a dca is not a bailiff

And have zero legal powers

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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And the dca cannot start any kind of legal action.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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