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    • The property was our family home.  A fixed low rate btl/ development loan was given (last century!). It was derelict. Did it up/ was rented out for a while.  Then moved in/out over the years (mostly around school)  It was a mix of rental and family home. The ad-hoc rents covered the loan amply.  Nowadays  banks don't allow such a mix.  (I have written this before.) Problems started when the lease was extended and needed to re-mortgage to cover the expense.  Wanted another btl.  Got a tenant in situ. Was located elsewhere (work). A broker found a btl lender, they reneged.  Broker didn't find another btl loan.  The tenant was paying enough to cover the proposed annual btl mortgage in 4 months. The broker gave up trying to find another.  I ended up on a bridge and this disastrous path.  (I have raised previous issues about the broker) Not sure what you mean by 'split'.  The property was always leasehold with a separate freeholder  The freeholder eventually sold the fh to another entity by private agreement (the trust) but it's always been separate.  That's quite normal.  One can't merge titles - unless lease runs out/ is forfeited and new one is not created/ granted. The bridge lender had a special condition in loan offer - their own lawyer had to check title first.  Check that lease wasn't onerous and there was nothing that would affect good saleability.  The lawyer (that got sacked for dishonesty) signed off the loan on the basis the lease and title was good and clean.  The same law firm then tried to complain the lease clauses were onerous and the lease too short, even though the loan was to cover a 90y lease extension!! 
    • Northmonk forget what I said about your Notice to Hirer being the best I have seen . Though it  still may be  it is not good enough to comply with PoFA. Before looking at the NTH, we can look at the original Notice to Keeper. That is not compliant. First the period of parking as sated on their PCN is not actually the period of parking but a misstatement  since it is only the arrival and departure times of your vehicle. The parking period  is exactly that -ie the time youwere actually parked in a parking spot.  If you have to drive around to find a place to park the act of driving means that you couldn't have been parked at the same time. Likewise when you left the parking place and drove to the exit that could not be describes as parking either. So the first fail is  failing to specify the parking period. Section9 [2][a] In S9[2][f] the Act states  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN fails to mention the words in parentheses despite Section 9 [2]starting by saying "The notice must—..." As the Notice to Keeper fails to comply with the Act,  it follows that the Notice to Hirer cannot be pursued as they couldn't get the NTH compliant. Even if the the NTH was adjudged  as not  being affected by the non compliance of the NTK, the Notice to Hirer is itself not compliant with the Act. Once again the PCN fails to get the parking period correct. That alone is enough to have the claim dismissed as the PCN fails to comply with PoFA. Second S14 [5] states " (5)The notice to Hirer must— (a)inform the hirer that by virtue of this paragraph any unpaid parking charges (being parking charges specified in the notice to keeper) may be recovered from the hirer; ON their NTH , NPE claim "The driver of the above vehicle is liable ........" when the driver is not liable at all, only the hirer is liable. The driver and the hirer may be different people, but with a NTH, only the hirer is liable so to demand the driver pay the charge  fails to comply with PoFA and so the NPE claim must fail. I seem to remember that you have confirmed you received a copy of the original PCN sent to  the Hire company plus copies of the contract you have with the Hire company and the agreement that you are responsible for breaches of the Law etc. If not then you can add those fails too.
    • Weaknesses in some banks' security measures for online and mobile banking could leave customers more exposed to scammers, new data from Which? reveals.View the full article
    • I understand what you mean. But consider that part of the problem, and the frustration of those trying to help, is the way that questions are asked without context and without straight facts. A lot of effort was wasted discussing as a consumer issue before it was mentioned that the property was BTL. I don't think we have your history with this property. Were you the freehold owner prior to this split? Did you buy the leasehold of one half? From a family member? How was that funded (earlier loan?). How long ago was it split? Have either of the leasehold halves changed hands since? I'm wondering if the split and the leashold/freehold arrangements were set up in a way that was OK when everyone was everyone was connected. But a way that makes the leasehold virtually unsaleable to an unrelated party.
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VCS SpyCar PCN PAPLOC Now claimform - No Stopping -East Midlands Airport, Castle Donnington, DE74 2SA


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Hi, bit of advice please?

I was picked up by my partner at EMA. We weren't parked on the road, we stopped on a piece of waste ground between a car park and the road. I noticed signs, but to read them you would need to stop anyway.

I have since received the attached Charge Notice, which I haven't replied to yet, my questions are:

Should I appeal?

If so, on what grounds?

Does anybody have a template that has been used before?

Thank you in advance :-)

 

2023-05-25 VCS PCN incident 15-5-23.pdf

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Never appeal, what you currently have is a notice to keeper and they need to have met certain criteria for that to be valid.

 

This may well be airport land in which case the PPC has probably no power to issue charges.

 

Fill in the forum sticky information so we know what we're dealing with.

Edited by Homer67
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please complete this

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to VCS SpyCar PCN - No Stopping -East Midlands Airport, Castle Donnington, DE74 2SA

next time please put everything in one mass PDF and redact things properly ...PDF's sorted merged and redacted.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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1 Date of the infringement 15/05/2023

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 24/05/2023
 

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s

 

3 Date received 27/05/2023
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Can't see it anywhere
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No, I've not replied yet
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? Vehicle Control Services Limited

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] East Midlands Airport, on a entryway from a service road and a carpark
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

IPC

 

 

2023-05-25 VCS PCN incident 15-5-23.pdf

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Do you know what road you were on? Viscount road? the A453 and where did you stop. I cannot believe that one postcode covers the whole of the airp

Wouldn't worry too much No Stopping signs mean that a contract cannot be formed between the rogues and motorists. Their signs look  as if they are too small to read unless you do  stop!

 

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Never appeal.  VCS are one of the most crooked PPCs and never, ever, ever accept appeals.  Ever.

I was at EMA in April and tried to photograph as many signs as possible, in as many areas of the airport as possible, so this thread may be of some use  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/457218-vcs-east-midlands-airport-signs-thread/#comment-5207723

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Not PofA compliant either is it?

 

It states that only 'the driver' is now liable for their fictitious invoice?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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no it states the driver, then later the rk. thats ok.

lots of threads here about this airport.

go read them flibby.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

What to do depends on what sort of person you are.

The best thing you can do is read a load of VCS threads so you see how they operate.  They are total vampires.

You can pay £60 and the matter will go away.

Or you can refuse to pay.  Be aware than VCS are the most litigious of the private parking companies and use court claims as a way of intimidating motorists into paying, so don't think a fight will be over quickly, it won't.

However, CAG has an around 85% record of beating these charlatans in court (yes, i did calculate it once!) and we would be around to help you all the way.  Plus they don't take everyone who refuses to pay to court, but they are extremely litigious. 

Your call.

 

 

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The PCN is not compliant because it's on an airport and subject to Bye Laws.

Thanks for posting Beverley Road. That is in post code DE74 2HN- their PCN says you were in DE74 2SA. You cannot be in two places at the same time. 

Under PoFA Schedule4 S9[2][a] the PCN must specify the vehicle and the relevant land on which the car was parked. They failed to do that. Case over.

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No mention of POFA on the NTK, plus if it's airport land and subject to bye-laws POFA isn't applicable anyway.  So they can't rely on it to pursue the keeper either way.

They can only chase the driver for this charge, and they have no legal grounds or means to find out who this was.  

You'll probably get numerous letters from VCS, then a couple from a debt collector, then a couple from a solicitor.  Unless something arrives titled "letter before claim" or very similar, just ignore it (but keep copies of all letters).   If you get the LBC letter come back here for further advice.

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  • 2 months later...

To be honest you could just as easily write out a short two-line note basically saying that East Midlands Airport is not considered "relevant land" as defined in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and as such you are not liable as the registered keeper of the vehicle, and that they will need to take the matter up with the driver involved, yours sincerely, get stuffed.  

 

If they're stupid enough to try taking you to court knowing they can only pursue the driver, and they don't know who that was, they're idiots, frankly.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi, despite sending a 'snotty letter' as advised, I have recently received this letter from a recovery company called 'ELMS Legal.

A quick Google search tells me what these people are like, but what would you advise is my next step?

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You didn't let us see your snotty letter? Disappointing, it won't get entered into our "best snotty letter of the year" award now!😁

As Bazooka Boo says, let's see what they've sent. (Bet it isn't as good as your snotty letter).

We could do with some help from you.

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reg number showing post hidden.

nowhere here do we ever say ring anyone !!

as for the letter this is elms stating a PAPLOChas been previously sent and you have yet to reply.

send a new snotty letter off too elms ASAP. just to cover yourself but post it up here FIRST please

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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This is what I intend to send this time:

Your Ref:

XXXXXXXXXXXX

Regarding the above matter.

This is the second letter sent telling you to stop wasting your time sending letters to me.

East Midlands Airport is not considered "relevant land" as defined in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and as such you are not liable as the registered keeper of the vehicle, and that they will need to take the matter up with the driver involved.

 

Yours

 

Thoughts?

Edited by FTMDave
Fleecers' PCN no. showing
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I've edited your post above.  Of course you put the reference in when writing to the fleecers, but don't identify yourself here!

Just to check - was the last snotty letter sent to VCS or did they have some representative?

We could do with some help from you.

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2 hours ago, Flibdob said:

and as such you are not liable as the registered keeper of the vehicle,

Shouldn't this be...

as such I am not liable as the registered keeper of the vehicle,??

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

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