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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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CEL ANPR PCN claimform - overstay - Guildford car park ( Debenhams basement )


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Good afternoon,

 

Please advise with this PCN,

 

i've stayed in that car park and paid for 4 hours ( Sunday)

was late at the end of shopping day to leave car park in 15 minutes

( also take 5-10 minutes after we enter in the park and paid at the cash machine, as we waiting others customer who told us he will clear a space - only one at that time ),

 

maybe that's why it give me now total 27 minutes overstayed paid 4 hours . ( I've assumed that's the reason for this PCN )

 

""For tickets received through the post (Notice to Keeper) please answer the following questions:

 

There were three tickets issued for the sake of clarity this is the answer for one of them:

 

1 Date of the infringement: 10/09/2017

2 Date on the NTK: 26/09/2017

3 Date received: 28/09/2017

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? No

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? No. ( just small note that CEL have photographic evidence )

 

6 Have you appealed? No.

Have you had a response? N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company? Civil Enforcment Ltd ( creditor) ,

 

8 Exactly where [car park name and town]: in the basement, Dagehams Guildford, 164 Millbrook, GU1 3UU, 1 pond/per hour .

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. they have siad with small notes is the BPA.

 

Also see attached my edited file (pdf extension- I've only deleted my name, address and car details).

 

Please advise if I should start appealing based on that they send this letter after 14 days from incident date ? I must also ask them photographic evidence to better understand why is this PCN ?

 

Thank you.

 

Also see attached my edited file (pdf extension- I've only deleted my name, address and car details).

 

Please rescan and redact the PCN number (showing in three places). Mr.P

siteteam

PCN ( saved ) - hiden name,car plate no..pdf

PCN ( saved ) - hiden name,car plate no..pdf

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So you paid for parking, went shopping bought goods and have receipts, and these crooks want more money because you overstayed?

 

Appeal definitely, BUT wait for others to advise what you should include in your appeal to them, which they will ignore, but it's simply a paper trail exercise.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Wrote a long answer to this and lost it but anyway,

 

1) NTK is out of time to create keeper liability so tell them to do one (no need to be polite)

 

2) CEL don't use pofa so no keeper liability anyway

 

3) they use "balance of probabilities" that the keeper was the driver.

Tough, that fails in court every time,

they have to prove they know who the driver was. ( clue: they can't)

 

Don't shops shut at 4pm on Sundays?

So what's the parking problem after this time?

D

Oh and don't forget to complain to every shop you visited about why you're being penalised for shopping at their business, is won't be going there again.

  • Haha 1

Illegitimi non carborundum

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Did you shop in Debenhams and if so, are you a Debenhams card holder?

 

If you are get on the phone to Debenhams head office and tell them how you are being treated and why you won't be shopping there ever again - they may well get the charge cancelled with no more effort on your part.

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Also, when a company relies on photographic evidence to use papra 9 of the POFA they are supposed to send that with the NTK. As they havent the NTK is not a legal document anyway so you havent received one yet!

Do not respond to them, they will write again and then get some dca to write but ultimately you dont respond until they send a letter before action and they rarely follow that up as they always lose defended claims in court

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Good afternoon all.

 

First of all, we didn't buy anything from Debenhams, just parking.

 

I remember that we paid for 4 hours because Sundays after 4pm all the shops will be closing. I'm sure that we were 10-15 minutes late because only a few car left in the basement at that hour, but not 27 minutes as it gives differences from PCN & ANPR camera, also all the time that parking ticket was visible in the windscreen .

 

Because they did not send any photographic evidence I do not know what it means for them

"Payment not made in accordance with terms displayed on signage"...

 

As ericsbrother suggests maybe it is best not to respond to them yet, and they will send a second letter and more details.

 

I will post here and scan all the future correspondence from this company.

Edited by McNight
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this is not about parking or shopping, it is about contracts.

If convenient go back and get decent pictures of the entrance to the car park and also of the signage and the ticket machine.

 

In the meanwhile COMPLAIN to debenhams in writing (not email, they will just pass it on) and tell them you expect them to tell CEL to cancel.

 

By all means tell Debenhas that the letter from CEL break the law and you hold them responsible for their muppets actions and what are they doing about it?

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  • 6 months later...

I've just received from ZZPS, a new letter with total payment of £200 = late payment £140 + debt recovery charges £60.00.

Again just a letter with no other proves or photo's .

 

The main concern for me is that they increased parking "charge" and who knows how much it will become in a few days/months.

Any advice ?

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The same advice, IGNORE!!

 

Did you ever do as Eric asked and get any photos?

 

ZZPS are a circus outfit plucking figures out of their behinds and trying to intimidate you into paying for something you don't owe.

 

File it away under ignore.

 

If you feel you want to respond somehow, let your local MP know how the cowboy clamping companies are now the cowboy private parking clowns.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Bazooka Boo is quite right-just ignore them.

According to POFA the maximum they can claim is what they state on their notices in the car park-usuallly £80 to £100.

 

In any event if you just sit tight your next letter will be a good news one-they are going to offer you a price reduction! Very kind of them until you realise that you do not owe them a penny.

 

Eventually they give up but there is the odd occasion when they do something really stupid and threaten Court action

 

. If they do that, come back to us and get the advice you need to blow them away. You will then definitely need the photos that Eric's brother asked for earlier.

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So, you signed a credit agreement with them did you?

if you didnt then this is just unicorn food tax and you should look at the relevant law as suggested.

 

I've just received from ZZPS, a new letter with total payment of £200 = late payment £140 + debt recovery charges £60.00. Again just a letter with no other proves or photo's .

The main concern for me is that they increased parking "charge" and who knows how much it will become in a few days/months.

Any advice ?

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  • 1 month later...

I'm afraid that I do not have any photo's of that car park signs.

 

Now I've received the second letter from QDR Solicitors (in the name of ZZPS Limited as their Client) that it says if I do not paid full new increased amount of £236.00 within 14days they consider County Court Proceedings.

 

They have stipulated that if County Court Judgement (CCJ) will be against me will be entered in Register of Judgements, Orders and Fines for 6 years..

 

.Please advise what should I do at this point, as I do not want to go on Court and fight against big companies

... ( Just a remainder they did not send me any photo's or other proves, as far as I remember I've paid 4hours and over stay 15-20 minutes )

 

Even is unfair, tricky and without other proves or photo's , I'm just thinking now if was better to be paid them £80 first time, then now or in the future 4 or 5 times more....:(. I'm just concerned now about many letters in just a short time and increased warnings...

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they cant do court only CEL can and they always lose so now don't bother

 

a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF

and has

ZERO LEGAL POWERS

 

the same goes for their fake/tame paper solicitor

same printer same threat-o-gram program as the others can from.

 

go read like threads!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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You really need to have a read of some more of the threads on here and will see examples of the advice offered. Then of course you should have a read of the posts within this thread https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?405805-PPC-Successes-(No-Questions-please)(1-Viewing)-nbsp which are all successes.

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As the solicitors clients have no powers or authority that makes the solicitors letter completely pointless.

 

As already determined, the parking co are out of time for creating a keeper liability so they are firing blanks when it comes to starting a fight.

 

Ignore them, CEL will come back to you and may be tempted to take action but they know that they will lose a defended claim so you really have nothing to worry about as long as you hold your nerve.

 

We will guide you through the process if they do want to lose money on a bet that you will the pay up, been there before so i can assure you that they are cowards and liars and will run away when the going gtes tough.

 

Ask yourself why the amount has increased to £236?

Did you sign a creidt agreement with them? No?

 

well then the amount can only ever be what was on the first invoice and as that wasnt good enough for the law then the amount you owe is ZERO

 

I'm afraid that I do not have any photo's of that car park signs.

 

Now I've received the second letter from QDR Solicitors (in the name of ZZPS Limited as their Client) that it says if I do not paid full new increased amount of £236.00 within 14days they consider County Court Proceedings.

 

They have stipulated that if County Court Judgement (CCJ) will be against me will be entered in Register of Judgements, Orders and Fines for 6 years..

 

.Please advise what should I do at this point, as I do not want to go on Court and fight against big companies

... ( Just a remainder they did not send me any photo's or other proves, as far as I remember I've paid 4hours and over stay 15-20 minutes )

 

Even is unfair, tricky and without other proves or photo's , I'm just thinking now if was better to be paid them £80 first time, then now or in the future 4 or 5 times more....:(. I'm just concerned now about many letters in just a short time and increased warnings...

Edited by dx100uk
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Wow! Just checked and CEL (trading as starpark in this case) are members of the BPA so it beggars belief that they could get the NTK so wrong. I have googled the basement entrance of the Debehams and seen the signs on entry.

 

 

 

Payment must be made within 10 minutes of arrival but nothing about what would happen if you were 11 minutes. I'm guessing you had to put your registration number in at the P&D machine. As far as I can tell, the signs at the entrance do not convey any sort of invitation to treat although the images were taken in May 2017 and they may have changed in the interim so please get pictures. There is a tiny sign next to the pedestrian access sign which I cannot get a close up of. Even if it does state terms, it is too small to notice, especially if you turned left as you would have missed it.

 

 

As others have said, it is CEL who have to take action but not until they have sent a Letter Before Action/Claim. You have an absolute defence to this as the NTK is out of time and you are under no obligation to name the driver. Anyone in this country can drive your car with your permission. The fact that they haven't mentioned PoFA is grounds for complaint to the BPA but I think they will just refer you back to CEL and go through their complaints procedure.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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Starpark and CEL are separate entities and they just havent informed Companies House that they are run behind the scenes by the same chancers and liars so breaching the law in that regard.

 

However, you have had 8 months to help yourself by providing us with the images and information we need to give you a proper opinion yet you havent been bothered to get your act together.

You should also read other threads and more widely about these people as well.

 

Did you send a letter to Debenhams? If so what did they say about this?

 

What have you been advised about the unicorn food tax that you are so worried about.

You havent taken that in nor read further about it yet say you are worried.

 

5 centuries ago people worried about falling off the edge of a flat world but accepted that ships sailed over the horizon thus showing it wasnt flat.

You have the information now turn that into knowledge

 

We can talk until the cows come home but it is for you to actually do things.

Edited by dx100uk
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  • 2 months later...

also understand they were too late sending out the NTK to create a keeper liability and CEL's letters are too rubbish to get the wording right anyways.

 

so 2 separate companies so no locus standi, no keeper libility so in what capacity are they suing you, cant add to the £100 chage as they are relying on POFA ( yes, they cant do that so no liability) to bill you at all.

 

It is all about frightening you into paying up. they will normally get a lady to phone you a day or so before the court hearing offering to settle for less. There are no people working in the offices in liverpool, this is from a locality in Herts where CEL has no business but others related to Ashley do

 

 

Post up the clai form and if it is not a computerised issue from northampton who has signed it off? That can be telling

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To give you an idea of what CEL are like their owner Ashley Cohen is a bit of a chameleon

 

Here on June 10th in a Witness Statement he was an administrator for the Coop

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/06/ashley-cohen-gets-yet-another-job.html

 

while here in another Witness Statement in June 2014 he is an administrator for CEL

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/06/ashley-cohen-gets-new-job.html

 

how do these crooks survive with something as blatant as that especially in a WS?

 

But it does give you extra ammunition when swatting away their claims.

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also, when I got a court summone he was working for DEAL and was a solicitor as well. That got him into trouble with the courts service.

 

 

they get away with it because each case is looked at separately so you can continue to use the same lie in front of each judge once. Ony when you run out of different judges does it get sticky.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi again all,

Just for remembering my PCN issue date is 26.09.2017 ; Incident date is 10.09.2017 . Also date on the 1st envelope is 26-09.2017.

 

I've just received this morning ( Saturday 06Oct 2018) Claim Form from County Court Business Centre - Northampton NN1 2LH , with Issue Date 01Oct2018, where Claimant is CEL and Defendant is me. The letter include also N9A(SDT) Form of admission and N9B9(SDT) Defence and Couterclaim form. I've start reading first steps to Acknowledge Claim online using website moneyclaim . I can scan and attache this letter if necessary. Amount claimed is £255.81 , Court fee £25.00, Legal representative's costs £50.00 = Total amount £330.81 .

 

I have a few questions now.

- please tell me - Before entering on that web site, maybe is best first to ask for proves from CEL (maybe photo's and that I've paid for 4 hours as I remeber ) using CPR 31.14 Request, as sugested in other threads?

- in this claim form is only refering to Car park:- Debenhams Guildford with no address details as in first letter from CEL. Do I need to make any notice somewhere about that?

 

 

Manny thanks.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Follow the advice already given, you need to acknowledge the claim or you woant be able to do anything. You will them have another fortnight to string a couple of sentences together for an outline of your defence. As siad, they dont turn up so call theirbluff.

As for asking for sight of their evidence, that is for much furhter down the line and I doubt if it will ever get that far.

 

 

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