Can bailiff visit Ltd Co premises for pers CTAX arrears?

[Peterbard]

If they do go back to your works, which as said i doubt, and they gain entry to your property, they do not have to leave until they have conducted their business.

 

Did they enter the premises when the letter was delivered ?

[Peterbard]

If you can show that no other notices have been received before the visit, the fees are not chargeable in any case.

 

This is why I am asking about the previous notices, have you perhaps moved house or is there some other reason you did not receive them ?

[Peterbard]

I thought the letter you received was the first stage notice, but it seems not, as that would have to have the ammount needed to pay the debt on it, it would also mention the £75 fee.

 

So I am working under the subsumption it is a final letter from the EA at the end of the enforcment cycle. A last ditch attempt to get the cash before they send it back.

[whitsend]

How much do you think your tools are worth, that is how much would the raise at auction ?

 

Do you have any of them listed as assets on your annual accounts.

 

My tools are mostly plant and machinery and moulds. No other company would buy moulds. Kilns, plant and machinery would be difficult to find a buyer for as they are bespoke. Removal of most of these items though would require extensive changes to the building, which would not be allowed due to the listing of the building. Please understand this building is 150 years old, so you can't just go around knocking down walls to remove equipment. All original equipment was either built on site or the walls were taken down, which was the norm for this type of manufacture at the time. However this was all before it became listed. What could be removed is things like chairs, benches, racking could be taken down, and the usually stuff like screwdrivers, spanners just general tools, I wouldn't have thought would fetch much. The one thing that is worth the most is the huge extractor fan that once was used for all the building, that I use now. It would probably fetch around 3/4k at auction, however it was orignally installed in the 90's in the high ceiling of one of the stair wells just under the 3rd floor, it sits on 2 huge RSJ's. The owners would have taken it out himself and sold it if he could but the quotes to remove it were rediculous. If this was taken it would be impossible to run the business with no extraction, until it was replaced, but this would cover the bill. I specialist company could remove this without making any alterations to the building.

[Coughdrop]

I thought the letter you received was the first stage notice, but it seems not, as that would have to have the ammount needed to pay the debt on it, it would also mention the £75 fee.

 

So I am working under the subsumption it is a final letter from the EA at the end of the enforcment cycle. A last ditch attempt to get the cash before they send it back.

 

Yes, I think this was established some time ago.

 

You can find out whether or not the warrant has been returned by phoning both the enforcement company and the council (I'd do both). You really do not want to throw money down the drain. Make it clear to the council you want to pay once the warrant is returned, an option I outlined briefly in my first response in post 2 which was dismissed as debt avoidance, but now appears the favourable option.

[Peterbard]

My tools are mostly plant and machinery and moulds. No other company would buy moulds. Kilns, plant and machinery would be difficult to find a buyer for as they are bespoke. Removal of most of these items though would require extensive changes to the building, which would not be allowed due to the listing of the building. Please understand this building is 150 years old, so you can't just go around knocking down walls to remove equipment. All original equipment was either built on site or the walls were taken down, which was the norm for this type of manufacture at the time. However this was all before it became listed. What could be removed is things like chairs, benches, racking could be taken down, and the usually stuff like screwdrivers, spanners just general tools, I wouldn't have thought would fetch much. They one thing that is worth the most is the huge extractor fan that once was used for all the building, that I use now. It would probably fetch around 3/4k at auction, however it was orignally installed in the 90's in the high ceiling of one of the stair wells just under the 3rd floor, it sits on 2 huge RSJ's. The owners would have taken it out himself and sold it if he could but the quotes to remove it were rediculous. If this was taken it would be impossible to run the business with no extraction, until it was replaced, but this would cover the bill. I specialist company could remove this without making any alterations to the building.

 

Soo there i nothing, they cannot remove fixtures. Did they have a look around and ascertain this on their first visit with the letter do you think ?

[Peterbard]

Yes, I think this was established some time ago.

 

You can find out whether or not the warrant has been returned by phoning both the enforcement company and the council (I'd do both). You really do not want to throw money down the drain. Make it clear to the council you want to pay once the warrant is returned, an option I outlined briefly in my first response in post 2 which was dismissed as debt avoidance, but now appears the favourable option.

 

Providing they tell you and you ring at the right time.

[Coughdrop]

True, but not rocket science to keep phoning. It is Whitsend's right to know the status of her account.

[Peterbard]

Yes, I think this was established some time ago.

 

You can find out whether or not the warrant has been returned by phoning both the enforcement company and the council (I'd do both). You really do not want to throw money down the drain. Make it clear to the council you want to pay once the warrant is returned, an option I outlined briefly in my first response in post 2 which was dismissed as debt avoidance, but now appears the favourable option.

 

Why do yo not start another post,"what is debt avoidance", and leave this one alone.

[Peterbard]

True, but not rocket science to keep phoning. It is Whitsend's right to know the status of her account.

 

So she does what phones both the bailf and authority every 5 mins and asks the same question in the hope that they tell her the truth.

No not rocket science, unless it was for a zeppelin.

[Coughdrop]

Why do yo not start another post,"what is debt avoidance", and leave this one alone.

 

I neither need nor want to. I mention it only because both you and Bailiff Advice mentioned it on this thread earlier on, otherwise it would not be an issue.

[whitsend]

Would a bailiff really go the lengths of removing equipment using specialist contactors and lifting equipment, for a council tax debt. Obviously I can't prove this extractor fan belongs to my business as it belonged to the building when I moved in. The bailiff would need to know his stuff and follow the ducting to find it.

[Coughdrop]

So she does what phones both the bailf and authority every 5 mins and asks the same question in the hope that they tell her the truth.

No not rocket science, unless it was for a zeppelin.

 

I think if both the enforcement company and the council deliberately misled their clients / residents, they would be in trouble. If calls are recorded, as many are nowadays, there would be solid evidence of this.

 

Sorry, Whitsend, but will be offline for a little while now. Will be back later

[whitsend]

Soo there i nothing, they cannot remove fixtures. Did they have a look around and ascertain this on their first visit with the letter do you think ?

 

My employee was just inside one of the entrances when the bailiff came and didn't look around. However I have been told by the mechanic next door that he went in our other entrance first and wandered around first, before coming out and trying the second entrance, he also asked him if he knew me. He told him I would be around somewhere.

[whitsend]

I will be phoning both the bailiff and the council, and I will not make any payments until i have confirmation that the debt is returned to the council.

[Peterbard]

Ok

So the idea is that, both the EA and the authority are contacted, they are told that you were unaware of the enforcment being with the bailiff until the last notice.

However the bailff said that the account will be coming back to them in the next few days and she would then like to start a repayment arrangment with them.

Ask them to advise.

[Peterbard]

I will be phoning both the bailiff and the council, and I will not make any payments until i have confirmation that the debt is returned to the council.

 

You really should not make any threats to them of further withholding payment , it is not a good idea. Dot forget it is you that owe the money to them not the other way arround despite what some may think.

[Peterbard]

I will be phoning both the bailiff and the council, and I will not make any payments until i have confirmation that the debt is returned to the council.

 

Good as i thought , so they are unlikely to come back.

[Peterbard]

I think if both the enforcement company and the council deliberately misled their clients / residents, they would be in trouble. If calls are recorded, as many are nowadays, there would be solid evidence of this.

 

Sorry, Whitsend, but will be offline for a little while now. Will be back later

 

Yes we know how scumbags record thing for later use.

[stu007]

WARNING: Either assist the OP with there issue or stay off this thread, this is not a discussion area but an advice area.

 

Sorry to interrupt your thread whitsend

[Peterbard]

Yes we know how scumbags record thing for later use.

 

I of course use the word in its general sense not pointed at anyone in particular.

[Bailiff Advice]

Would a bailiff really go the lengths of removing equipment using specialist contactors and lifting equipment, for a council tax debt. Obviously I can't prove this extractor fan belongs to my business as it belonged to the building when I moved in.

 

The bailiff would need to know his stuff and follow the ducting to find it.

 

It is very clear that there are no real assets that can be recovered from the business so I really do think that you should not be worrying unduly on this point.

 

Commital will not be an option either.

 

I initially considered that an attachment against earnings could be an option and even more so when you stated that you are a Director of the Limited Company. I was then confused when you stated that despite being a Director, that you are instead 'self employed'. Accordingly, an Attachment of Earnings will not be an option either.

 

In 2014, bailiff regulations were completely overhauled and the position now, is that once an account is in the hands of an enforcement company, the amount of the debt owed includes bailiff fees. An enforcement company will typically keep an account for anything from 4-6 months. If they are unable to obtain payment, the account could get returned. If this happens, then bailiff fees are removed and the amount of the debt reverts to the amount stated on the Liability Order.

 

Contrary to internet advice, most local authorities receiving a returned account, will look at sending the account to their second choice enforcement company. Bailiff fees would then apply once again. Your account may be returned in a few days time or even in a month's time.

 

There is absolutely no need in your case to consider the rights of entry into your property and whether the enforcement agent has gained legal entry into the premises or whether you can demand that he leave. As you have stated, the building is vast and entry can be gained very easily in any event.

 

You have stated that you do not intend paying whilst the account is with the enforcement company. That must be your choice.

 

You really do need to ensure that you address the 2nd Liability Order with the council as you do not want to find yourself in a similar situation in a few weeks time.

[Coughdrop]

I will be phoning both the bailiff and the council, and I will not make any payments until i have confirmation that the debt is returned to the council.

 

Good as i thought , so they are unlikely to come back.

 

Glad it is agreed this is the best way. There's no harm in any visit to your business premises as you have no assets which can be seized.

 

 

In 2014, bailiff regulations were completely overhauled and the position now, is that once an account is in the hands of an enforcement company, the amount of the debt owed includes bailiff fees. An enforcement company will typically keep an account for anything from 4-6 months. If they are unable to obtain payment, the account could get returned. If this happens, then bailiff fees are removed and the amount of the debt reverts to the amount stated on the Liability Order.

Given the letter you received, this is not insignificant in your case. In fact, t is highly significant.

Contrary to internet advice, most local authorities receiving a returned account, will look at sending the account to their second choice enforcement company. Bailiff fees would then apply once again. Your account may be returned in a few days time or even in a month's time.

 

"Internet advice" being advice received over the internet, such as this forum. This is a very strange comment.

 

It would be highly unusual for a case to be passed to a third enforcement company given the account has already failed to be collected by two as mentioned in post 30. If you are proactive in pursuing a realistic repayment plan with the council, and make an initial payment (as substantial as possible) once you are sure the account has been returned, then there is every chance it could be accepted without bailiff fees.

 

You can prepare for this by completing an Income and Expenditure form (there is a good one on National Debtline), and showing you would be paying what you can afford realistically. Ideally they would want you to clear the amount within four months, but the council cannot have what you have not got. Any correspondence with the council should be addressed to the Head of Revenues, copied to the CEO. An email with a hard copy in the post making a firm offer of payment stands a fair chance of being accepted.

 

You owe the money - they want it. They have tried twice with bailiffs and failed, other options are unlikely, especially if there is a very realistic repayment proposal from you on the table. Just be very careful to ensure the warrant has been returned and not redistributed. Check also the amount of the Liability Order(s).

 

 

You really do need to ensure that you address the 2nd Liability Order with the council as you do not want to find yourself in a similar situation in a few weeks time.

 

Yes, if there is a second LO, something which still appears unclear, then do address it asap and agree a repayment plan before it is passed for enforcement.

[Peterbard]

Hi

 

First of all this is definately for council tax arrears, not business rates, my premises is exempt.

 

I have contacted the council this morning, and they say that this enforcement went out to another company August 2015!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. However they sent it back to the council last month saying they could not contact me. How is this possible I have had cars parked outside my house, I have been living in the house, but have heard nothing at all from any bailiff company before. Wouldn't they have taken my cars? Anyway they then instructed Dukes to make an attempt at my place of work. They admit the business address error, but don't know why it happened.

 

.

 

Yes this is interesting because it shows a few things we have been saying. First that accounts can be transferred between enforcement companies(it is not a rarity).

 

Secondly that the fees may not die if the order is returned, it in fact occurs when the enforcment power ceases, which may not be the same thing.

 

The authority may not decide to terminate the active enforcment when it returns as here. This further complicate the, wait it out idea.

 

In addition it should be made clear to the OP, that although it is correct that her first payments will go straight to the bailiff, this is only intill the £75 is discharged.

After that, out of her £50 payment, only £8 will be deducted to pay fees the rest £42 will go towards repaying the debt.

[AndyOrch]

This is not assisting the OP Cougdrop......if you wish to help the poster ...post your advice to the poster and do not direct it at other posters advice.This is not a discussion thread (yet its 7 pages long now and no further on).

 

I will let the above stand...anymore and Im afraid they will just be unapproved...no warning.

 

The same applies to other posters aiming their post at you !!!!

 

Andyorch