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Old EDF B2B CCJ - been making cash payments - EDF wont accept them - Writ of control help


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I have had a writ of control issued against me, in respect of what the claimant suggests is a default situation, concerning scheduled payments agreed upon following a CCJ, related to energy charges.

There was no prior warning from the claimant in respect of this action being taken, and the default situation was in itself engineered by the claimant, who had rejected some of the payments I had made, but who had accepted others. 

The claimant seems to hold that making payments in cash is unlawful, but is unable to clarify the legislation that supports this, or explain why some payments have been accepted, and others returned?

This matter has been investigated by the energy ombudsman, who has suggested to the claimant, that they must provide me with a statement of account (which had been refused over many months), which seems likely to clarify the arbitrary manner in which the payments have been dealt with?

It seems that the claimant has advised the Ombudsman, that my method of payment was not compliant with their "business practices" rather than being unlawful, which is what they had been hinting at over an extended period?

I wonder if anyone can assist with the following questions, please?:

  1. Bearing in mind, that the claimant had the choice to process or return payments, and deciding to return them, led directly to a default situation, is this in any way relevant to a writ of control being issued?
  2. The enforcement agents, refuse to discuss any sort of arrangement to resolve the situation in advance of visits being made to my small business, seemingly to catalogue and ultimately remove the contents for sale at public auction. Is this usual?
  3. I have for many years suffered from poor mental health, and this is something that has worsened at the prospect of losing my sole form of income, after my workshop is stripped bare (other than a few hand tools to the value of £1350). Is there any requirement for enforcement agents to consider situations such as this, and could the refusal to consider paying off the arrears (only £200-300), be seen as contrary to legislation within the equalities act, specifically in terms of direct discrimination?
  4. I cannot afford the £1500-2000 it would cost to obtain legal advice on this matter, and without legal help I feel I will need to accept my sole form of income being cancelled over £200-300 arrears. In civil proceedings involving individuals with mental health issues, is there any possibility of obtaining legal/help advice, and if not, how can the judicial process be implemented fairly? 

I get the feeling that the questions above are more the province of a solicitor, but as I cannot afford that option, would be very grateful if anyone can assist?  Making the cash payments, was something I was forced to do, due to mobility issues, and being unable to use my bank account for financial reasons.

 

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Of course it would be helpful if you would identify the name of the claimant – the energy company I suppose and also tell us the whole story.

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who's the energy company (the Claimant) and what date is the judgement in default.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The provider is EDF, and from what I read online, other than very involved applications, and the need to make a 244 mile round trip to attend court, its impossible to challenge a writ of control?

The writ issue date was 10th August, and I was notified of the issue on the 25th. 

Edited by Billy Williams
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so this is a business to business util debt? are you a sole trader or a ltd company?

when was the org ccj attained please and did you defend yourself or knew nothing about it as your home address is not your business address?

the n244 will suspend the warrant yes if completed properly but there are a few puzzling issues that need to be worked out first, and no you dont need any sols to do it, you can do it yourself for £108 on the papers only or £275 if you want a hearing, but we're jumping ahead here.

as @honeybee13this smacks so much of a previous members thread whereby they argued for 7yrs before getting a warrant about only wanting to ever pay by cash for everything, i think that was down to some very misguided belief after reading some even more extreme interpretation of this freemen of the land twaddle that floats around the internet

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sole trader. In this case, I was forced to pay using cash, as at the moment it is my only option!  As I have been unable to work for several months, and I am feeling very unwell, I cannot afford £275, and am not in a position to make the required 244 mile trip, to the issuing court, which is required when a writ of control is being challenged.

The provider has refused to comply with directions from the Ombudsman, in relation to providing a statement of account, which I feel certain would clarify the fact that some of the cash payments have been accepted and processed?

I am not familiar with getting a warrant which enables payment by cash? In my case, payments in this way were only intended as a purely temporary measure, to ensure I did not fall into arrears.  This was made very difficult by the claimant refusing to provide me the details (which I had lost), that were needed to pay cash to them over the counter at my local post office.

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where have you got this idea you have to travel to the court to do an N244

tell us about the original CCJ claim please

did you defend it... know nothing about it?

3 hours ago, Billy Williams said:

I am not familiar with getting a warrant which enables payment by cash?

you dont have to pay by cash ....why cant you use bacs or a standing order now?

you cant just keep trying to fob people off, as all thats happens as you now have , is you get charged bailiff fees.

you can sort getting a statement later, .

have you been keeping up the payments whilst all this arguing has been going on?

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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When a writ of control is enforced, it appears in the case of a business, it is seen as appropriate to take everything, other than tools, equipment, vehicles, used in the business, which are valued at £1350?  P

ossibly 20/30 years ago, it might have been feasible to operate something like a window cleaning business, with a used vehicle, ladder, buckets and sponges etc, with a value of less than £1350?

Today it would be quite impossible to stay in business with only £1350  tools, equipment, vehicle, after the enforcement agents have visited, so I wonder what the point of the exemption is?

 

Impossible to use my bank account at the moment. Was previously paying using cash paid over the counter at my local post office, but lost provider details, and they refused to provide them to me a second time.

That suggests there is a need to appear in person at the court that issued the writ,  maybe it's wrong?  Impossible to contact courts by phone now, and emails are ignored, so as I cannot afford £1000-£1500 to get legal advice,  this is all very difficult!

Both of my complaints to the Ombudsman have been upheld, but the provider continues to refuse to send a statement of account. 

 

 

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threads merged please keep to one thread

On 27/08/2023 at 19:29, Billy Williams said:

Both of my complaints to the Ombudsman have been upheld, but the provider continues to refuse to send a statement of account. 

immaterial to why you wont answer the questions asked and to why you are not still paying the debt.

pers id stop worrying about things you dont need to do anything about right now.

what you should be doing is getting on and making a payment arrangement with the bailiff, then the writ wont happen.

 

sorry but alot of your problems with the limited answers you are giving seem to be of your own doing and all could have been totally avoided.

 

On 27/08/2023 at 19:08, Billy Williams said:

I cannot afford £1000-£1500 to get legal advice

again you do not need a sols.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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As the claimant has ignored the Ombudsman instruction to provide me with a statement of account, and refuses to clarify why some cash payments have been accepted and others returned, I dont have any accurate idea of the arrears?  Had all the payments been accepted, then I would have been in credit.   

The bailiffs have advised they have been instructed not to offer any sort of payment plan. They have ignored medical evidence outlining my current state of health, and like the claimant seem to understand that being off work with illness, for several months, should not affect my ability to pay (sick notes from my GP have been provided to them).

I have tried very hard to prevent the account getting into arrears, and will be sending more payments tomorrow, but feel that without proper legal advice on what to do next, very soon my life is going to get an awful lot worse very quickly.

It seems surprising that there is no legislation which obliges those in the debt enforcement industry, to consider long term health problems of debtors, before implementing actions, which in some cases, are likely to destroy the lives of debtors, subject to such actions?

Finally, I wonder if anyone knows why the sum of £1350 has been chosen in relation to value of exempt goods, when the agents come to call?

In common with millions of others in the UK subject to debt judgements, the fact that no legal help is available, means it's very easy to get into the situation I find myself in now.     

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have you ever sent edf an sar? if not do so today, they must comply in 30 days, that will give you everything they hold on you including account comms logs and actions taken on the account by their operators. so for example, if a payment was refused, why and how they sent it back etc.

im not sure why you keep going about needing to pay for or get legal advise, you dont, you just need to do the right things at the righttime, and not necessarily ones that are of a 'legal' nature, just std actions anyone can do.

and you keep harking on about this omb decision, thats got nothing to do with resolving this. 

there are vulnerability rules bailiffs must abide by yes and there are also the CONC rules for debtors that include guidance on dealing with vulnerable debtors, but it might well be you dont meet them, even though you think you should.

 and yet again back to the ccj please you keep forgetting to ans important questions that could over turn everything and get you compo back poss.

On 27/08/2023 at 13:36, dx100uk said:

when was the org ccj attained please and did you defend yourself or knew nothing about it as your home address is not your business address?

we need the full story please that lead to the ccj and afterwards.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks, I will try a SARs, but get the feeling the writ of control is likely to get enforced quite quickly, and as they have refused the Ombudsman request to provide a statement of account, not sure what they will provide in response to a SARs?

Sorry, I have no legal qualifications or knowledge, so no idea what the abbreviations you have used mean? As both the bailiffs and the claimant have ignored information provided to them about my health, is this something that is acceptable?

I am not sure if the "National Debtline" fact sheet on writs of control is accurate or not, and if it is, the idea of a 244-mile round trip to appear personally, and the £275 fee required, to delay the writ being implemented, is very worrying to me?

Judgement was made last summer, I was acting as a LIP, and in advance of the hearing, I made several SARs requests. No records of telephone conversations were provided, nothing regarding 3 "investigations" into complaints, and no disclosures of internal communications regarding myself.

I am not completely sure if there is a requirement to disclose call transcripts, or to provide details of investigations to the Ombudsman

Would I be right in thinking that the various debt charities, have business relationships, with entities such as enforcement agents,  and credit reference agencies

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply to my ramblings, which I would guess probably strike you as pretty silly? 

 

 

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if you put in an n244 im sure it gets moved to your local court.?

you wont get nor will they have call transcripts no, but there are usually operator notes, but if you've already sent an sar to edf, then i cant see the point of a repeat. but, and i cant for the life of me think why they are refusing to send a statement of account, should you make an sar to edf specifically asking for all bills and a detailed statement of account from xxx date till (when they comply) you could take them to court for punitive damages if they dont within the 30days limit.

theres something fishy going on here that i cant put my finger on .

yes all the charities do have business relationships and indeed are directly funded by various dca's and banks 'donations'.. i take what they really means with a large pinch of salts.

Consumer Credit Sourcebook (Conc - FCA rules) - Consumer Action Group

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you.  The N244 notice application can only be dealt with by a high court, I was advised today that my local combined court did fulfil high court duties, but after submitting the completed N244 by hand (I can submit by email, but as the court can only rarely be contacted by phone, was not sure how to pay the fee?}.

It turns out that what I was advised about the local court, also being a district registry (High Court), was not the case, and that the EX50A which suggests the N244 fee is £14, incorrect and that the actual fee for making an application for a stay of execution related to the writ of control, is actually £275. 

The provider refuses to provide the statement of account required by the Ombudsman, and the only information I have regarding the account is a screenshot, that was provided by a member of contract staff.

That denotes that some cash payments have been accepted and processed, while others have been returned, and it also shows a charge of £382 having been made in relation to late payments?  I was not advised of the £382 charge, which was levied soon after the original judgement was made, and some months before the matter returned to court, for payments to be determined.

Whether it's acceptable to make such additional charges, after an application to vary the original order of the court, had been made I am not sure, but would have imagined that there is some requirement to make the person being subjected to such charges aware of the charge and why it has been made? 

I am very grateful for any advice you can provide on this, as there isn't much possibility of my obtaining the amount demanded by next week!

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52 minutes ago, Billy Williams said:

EX50A which suggests the N244 fee is £14, incorrect and that the actual fee for making an application for a stay of execution related to the writ of control, is actually £275. 

2.7 Application to vary a judgement or suspend enforcement £14

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1157289/ex50a-civil-and-family-court-fees_May_2023.pdf

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Quite so. The court manager that told me that the fee was £275, and my local court does not fulfil the functions of a District Registry, called me earlier and told me my 244 application was being actioned!

It seems to me that if the claimant has made submissions related to obtaining a writ of control, which they are fully aware are not true, that this seems to suggest contempt of court? 

Wonder what views are on this? 

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Following a CCJ, is it viable for a claimant to make a late payment charge of £382, even though the defendant had made an application to vary the original order, and the payments to be made, would not be determined by the court for several more months?

In respect of making an application to obtain a writ of control, is there any requirement to sign a statement of truth?  If such an application is made, using a submission which is knowingly untrue, could this be seen as contempt of court, even if the applicant is not legally qualified? 

If it appears that a spurious submission has been made, what would be the best way to address this?

Unfortunately, it has proved quite impossible to get any legal advice on these points..............at least not from any of the 6 local solicitors I called earlier today? I would have thought it should have been possible to answer those 3 questions, within the time frame of a £200, 30 minute interview?

Many thanks, to anyone who can maybe shed some light on these things. 

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Wonder if there is anyone on here who can assist with a question related to CPR? 

I simply cant afford £300-500 a solicitor would charge, and would be very grateful if anyone can assist?

The specific question is,

what action should be taken if it appears that a party in a civil case, has made a submission, that they are fully aware is not true?

Could this be seen as contempt of court, if there were evidence to prove that the submission was partly or wholly untrue? 

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yes it is 

please stop creating additional threads  i merged another last night stick to this thread please

ask your questions here.

as for this ive been charged an extra +£300 since a judgement..

you've not put up any paper at all regarding the whole of your debacle.

we need to see

the particulars of claim from their original claimform

the defence you filed.

and both yours and the claimants witness statements please

THEN we can help you

 

read our upload guide carefully and we prefer you to only put up one multipage pdf containing everything if you can please/

until then we are shooting in the dark

but again i say you do not need a solicitor, you can do it almost for free if you give us the information, not your interpretation of what has happened or your interpretation of things in law that might hel p you.

dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The case is to do with outstanding energy charges, of some £4800, and judgement was entered on 20/6/22. In the course of the 7 year dispute that preceded the court judgement, the claimant made 2 offers of payment to the defendant, and one to a third party, who was not directly involved in the dispute.

It seems I was wrong to understand that the various offers of payment, suggested any admission of liability on the part of the claimant, but cannot be sure of that as I have no legal knowledge? The claimant has refused to clarify the reasons for the offers of payment, or why payment was offered to a third party.

On 18/07/22 a late payment charge of £382 was added to the account, even though the defendant had submitted an N245 to vary the original order (£4800 within 13 days), which was dealt with at a further hearing which took place on 18/11/22. At the final hearing, a payment arrangement was suggested, and was agreed to by myself. 

In March this year the claimant decided to engage the services of a debt collector, even though the account was not in default, and the payments had all been made on time.  Next I lost the claimant account details, which I was using to make payments in cash, at my local post office. The claimant refused to send me the required details for several months, so I started to pay by cash sent via signed for delivery, not wanting a default situation to ensue.

According to a screenshot of transactions, up until May 7th 2023, some of the cash payments were accepted, and others returned. The claimant refuses to provide any sort of statement of account, as required by the Ombudsman.

On 10/8/23, the claimant obtained a writ of control, from the Coventy District Registry, which I would assume is related to submissions concerning non-payment?

I have submitted an N244, asking for a stay of execution on the writ of control, outlining that the payments have been paid, and that Royal Mail information supports this.

Having suffered from poor mental health for more than 50 years, the thought of losing my only form of income following a visit from the bailiffs (who have been instructed not to entertain any offer of payment), has made these issues much worse. I cannot afford to pay the £3425 now required, or the additional fees that will also be involved.

I apologise for posts which probably seem rather rude and arrogant, but not having been able to sleep properly for nearly a week, and having no idea of how to proceed, really has made things extremely difficult. 

  

 

 

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well if the bailiffs do turn up (doubtful now) simply tell them an n244 has been submitted. they are quite used to this kind of situation and wont do anything once you've proved to them the n244 is in.

as for any unlawful fees and these (rather silly) cash payments you sent via royal mail going missing.

again that will come out at the hearing .

as for wanting a statement, again the claimant WILL have to produce one, so sit back , let the process run and await a hearing date to come thru.

nothing more you can do , other than gather up your ACTUAL evidence (written document) that prove your case for your statement which we will help with.

yours is not the next move.

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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