Bailiffs to call at my parents "care of" address?

[Starbug]

Hi. In recent years I have been using my dad's address for mail as a "care of" address. Mainly because I've moved around a few times and didn't have a fixed address for long.

 

I fell out with my landlady, long story. But she has got a CCJ for rent arrears in my absence, and they have traced my to my dad's address. I do not, and never have lived there. The letter is from the Sheriff's office, and is a high court writ.

 

I am taking steps to sort this matter out, and applying for a DRO. But in the meantime, they have said they'll be around and given next week as a date on the notice of enforcement.

 

I've told my dad not to let them in under any circumstances, and to let them know that I don't live there. But it has me worried, as I don't want them hassling him, and worry that they may try to take his possessions. I know they're not allowed to, but the onus is on the debtor to prove who owns what.

 

And even if he doesn't let them into the flat, he has a garage outside that he keeps his tools in. He is a mechanic by trade, and his garage is full of tools he uses for his job. If the garage is open, which it often is when he's working outside it, they can gain peaceful entry? And then can they take his tools? The garage isn't linked to the flat by a door, but it's part of the same block of flats.

 

What is the best course of action to take here? Should I call the bailiffs myself? I don't want to give them my new address until the DRO is in force, as they could come around here and try to take a vehicle that I use for work. But I really don't want them hassling my father, what can I do?

[Bailiff Advice]

How much is the debt that the Sheriffs Office are looking to enforce?

 

How is the application for a DRO progressing?

[Starbug]

How much is the debt that the Sheriffs Office are looking to enforce?

 

How is the application for a DRO progressing?

The debt is for about £3000, and I have only just started the DRO process. I was advised that it'll take 4-6 weeks.

[Bailiff Advice]

The debt is for about £3000, and I have only just started the DRO process. I was advised that it'll take 4-6 weeks.

 

Am I right to assume that this debt will be included in the DRO?

 

Do you have any documentary evidence that the DRO process has commenced?

Edited July 9, 2016 by honeybee13
Old username removed.

[Starbug]

Yeah this debt will be included on the DRO. And no, no proof of anything yet. I only just requested the forms after speaking to a debt advisor and them recommending the DRO.

[ploddertom]

If you are going for a DRO then you must have a raft of other debts stacking up - is anyone else sniffing around?

[Starbug]

If you are going for a DRO then you must have a raft of other debts stacking up - is anyone else sniffing around?

Yes, I have some defaults. But no action has been taken on those yet, they're about 3 years old.

 

I don't understand how this relates to the HCEO problem though? TBH from what I've read, once my dad tells them I don't live there, they should leave him alone? As long as they don't gain entry they can't do anything, and it's not his job to trace me, it's theirs, so he doesn't have to tell them my new address?

[renegadeimp]

Yes, I have some defaults. But no action has been taken on those yet, they're about 3 years old.

 

I don't understand how this relates to the HCEO problem though? TBH from what I've read, once my dad tells them I don't live there, they should leave him alone? As long as they don't gain entry they can't do anything, and it's not his job to trace me, it's theirs, so he doesn't have to tell them my new address?

 

They cant force entry for a civil debt. And they have to know you live there. He could simply provide a council tax bill which will show them you dont live there, or he could go a step further and get a stat dec.

Edited July 9, 2016 by honeybee13
Old username removed.

[brassnecked]

Stat Dec might be an idea, for father along with the council tax bill, but under no circumstances must dad let the HCEO in, he has no right of entry

[ploddertom]

Yes, I have some defaults. But no action has been taken on those yet, they're about 3 years old.

 

I don't understand how this relates to the HCEO problem though? TBH from what I've read, once my dad tells them I don't live there, they should leave him alone? As long as they don't gain entry they can't do anything, and it's not his job to trace me, it's theirs, so he doesn't have to tell them my new address?

 

 

The reason for asking the question is actually quite simple. You have mentioned who is chasing you and the some facets of your personal life and the chances are the Enforcement Co may try & ramp up the pressure to get payment before they may be forced to retire. They will know the limits of how much is owing to obtain a DRO.

 

I agree that he is under no obligation to give them your address but one of the only ways to take the pressure off him is to do just that. It is also the case that some parents may pay their offsprings debts voluntarily to make life easier.

 

Going to the debt itself then it has to be asked do you admit the debt in its totality. If not then there is always the chance of taking action to argue against it including against the visit of the HCEO.

Edited July 9, 2016 by honeybee13
Old username removed

[Starbug]

ploddertom - no I don't admit the full amount of debt, and did have a defence prepared. But because I'd moved on ages ago, and the person in question had made no effort to contact me(she had my email and phone number), I'd assumed that was the last I'd hear of her. Unfortunately that wasn't the case, and she traced me to my father's address because of me using it for post, and got a CCJ in my absence. I had no idea it was even happening, as my dad just puts my post in a pile and didn't mention anything that looked official.

 

I could potentially ask for the judgement to be set aside, but to be honest going the DRO route seems like the easier option due to my other debts. I'm just hoping that it gets set up in time before the HCEOs find me, although even if they do I won't let them in here either.

Edited July 6, 2016 by Starbug

[Starbug]

They cant force entry for a civil debt. And they have to know you live there. He could simply provide a council tax bill which will show them you dont live there, or he could go a step further and get a stat dec.

 

Thanks, I'll look into that. Would that be a sworn statement in front of a solicitor? I'll tell him to show the council tax bill first, as that'll have the single occupier discount shown too. But if they persist, he'll have to go down the stat dec route.

[daverules]

Hello

I think your parents should do a stat dec regardless ue to the fact your father works in an outside garage

where an EA can walk up to.

 

Your father can claim that it's his but the EA will try to pressure him if he has no paperwork to support

the goods are his. Better safe than sorry for the price of a stat dec at £10 or £15

 

Regards

[ploddertom]

I think I would look long & hard about your actions first as although your debts can be written off after 12 months you are still going to have markers on your file for best part of 6 years, making it hard to obtain any type of credit. I note what you say about this CCJ and if it were me would be fighting it.

 

It has been said by others that producing a CT bill will suffice as to who is resident - it doesn't it just shows who the bill payer is. You should also be aware that the Regulations do allow for forced entry providing the EA can make a case before a Judge. This is usually reserved for those who have visible trappings of wealth but choose to hide from the EA, it is mainly aimed at those who live in large detached houses with expensive motors on the drive - I make mention of this as the procedure has been used in other cases but it is rare.

 

Providing your dad is built of stern stuff then if he receives a visit he should go and talk to them remembering to lock the door behind him if he goes out.

[Starbug]

Why would he even have to say the stuff is his though? If I don't live there, I don't live there. Surely he can just tell them I used it as a postal address? They surely need to doubt that he's telling the truth for some reason? He isn't lying, I don't live there and never have! I'm allowed to use a care of address for correspondence, so surely the main issue is letting them know that I don't reside there? I don't see how they can even threaten to take his stuff for a debt belonging to me, at an address that I don't live at.

[Starbug]

Oh and the council tax bill should show "single occupier discount" - isn't that proof that only he lives there?

 

I doubt they'd try to force entry via a court, he doesn't have much money and there's nothing visible at all as it's a top floor flat. It's not a particularly nice flat at all.

 

One other question - his car is parked outside. It's an old banger, not worth much at all. Will they go for his car? Even though I don't live there, I do worry they might try and take it. He uses it for his job and it has his mechanic tools in it, and is worth way less than £1000. So they shouldn't be able to take it even if the debt was his, but I know what these bailiffs can be like and don't want him having the worry.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Starbug

[Bailiff Advice]

Why would he even have to say the stuff is his though? If I don't live there, I don't live there. Surely he can just tell them I used it as a postal address?

 

I have had many years experience assisting debtors with bailiff enquiries and it may surprise you to know that every day enforcement companies receive hundreds of letters from mothers, girlfriends, ex partners etc 'claiming' that their son, boyfriend or ex does not live at the address and it is only when the enforcement agent makes a personal visit that it is discovered that the letters were untrue. One a week ago I was assisting a mother who paid a debt of approx £490 on behalf of her son. She too had written to the enforcement company 'claiming' that she had thrown her son out of the home after a family dispute.

 

The debt was a Magistrate court fine. Given that there is a right with these fines to force entry, the enforcement agent advised her that he could not return the warrant back to the court as a 'gone away' case without first entering the property and seeing for himself that her son was not living there.

 

The mother was not happy at allowing the bailiff into her home and she called the police. When the police arrived, they entered the property (the bailiff remained outside). The police found the son hiding in the dining room. The mother tried to claim that he had appeared at the house the day before wanting a bed for the night and that this was the first time that she had seen him for over two years. I cannot tell you how many times this happens. It is very common indeed.

Edited July 9, 2016 by honeybee13
Old username removed

[Starbug]

I have had many years experience assisting debtors with bailiff enquiries and it may surprise you to know that every day enforcement companies receive hundreds of letters from mothers, girlfriends, ex partners etc 'claiming' that their son, boyfriend or ex does not live at the address and it is only when the enforcement agent makes a personal visit that it is discovered that the letters were untrue. One a week ago I was assisting a mother who paid a debt of approx £490 on behalf of her son. She too had written to the enforcement company 'claiming' that she had thrown her son out of the home after a family dispute.

 

The debt was a Magistrate court fine. Given that there is a right with these fines to force entry, the enforcement agent advised her that he could not return the warrant back to the court as a 'gone away' case without first entering the property and seeing for himself that her son was not living there.

 

The mother was not happy at allowing the bailiff into her home and she called the police. When the police arrived, they entered the property (the bailiff remained outside). The police found the son hiding in the dining room. The mother tried to claim that he had appeared at the house the day before wanting a bed for the night and that this was the first time that she had seen him for over two years. I cannot tell you how many times this happens. It is very common indeed.

 

Ok fair comment. But I have my own place, and I've never lived at my dads, I have absolutely no reason to lie to you guys here. The only reason I'm not going to volunteer my home address to the HCEO is that I don't want to deal with them before the DRO is set up. I have no problem with speaking to them on the phone, but I don't want them coming around here and clamping the vehicle I use for work, as then I'll really be screwed and have no way to earn money.

 

To be honest, this thread is now worrying me, as lots of you seem to think that they'll be able to take my dad's stuff. It seems to go against every regulation I've read! They're not supposed to take someone else's stuff, they shouldn't be hassling him if I don't live there etc.

 

And it's for a personal debt, so they have no way to force entry unless the court gives them that power. Even if the police show, my dad doesn't have to let them in unless they have reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed.

 

This thread is becoming more and more confusing. I just wanted to know the best course of action to get them off my dad's back. I've done my research with regard to the best course of action for my personal debts, and spoken to professional debt advisors, so don't need any advice concerning that. And I've done extensive reading on the power that bailiffs have, and know they shouldn't be taking my dad's stuff, especially seeing as how I don't live there.

 

So can someone give me a step by step, black and white answer that they're certain of, for the best course of action to stop them calling at my dad's house? That's all I care about at the moment.

 

Bailiff Advice - you've asked me lots of questions, but haven't recommended a course of action.

[honeybee13]

Bailiff Advice - you've asked me lots of questions, but haven't recommended a course of action.

 

I expect BA will be along later. Have you answered all of the questions they've asked you?

 

HB

[Starbug]

Bailiff Advice - you've asked me lots of questions, but haven't recommended a course of action.

 

I expect BA will be along later. Have you answered all of the questions they've asked you?

 

HB

 

Yes I have.

 

I can understand why some bailiffs may be suspicious when people say they don't live at an address. But usually HCEOs who've been doing a job for a while can tell when someone is hiding something or lying. I'm hoping they can tell my dad is being truthful, and have told him not to lie. Just say that I don't live there, that all the stuff is his, and that he won't give them my new address. To be fair, he knows where I live but doesn't have the address, and he also is under no obligation to provide it to them. It's up to them to trace where I live, and I'm not on the electoral role here so it could take them a while.

 

All I'm worried about is putting my dad through this hassle. It's not his problem or his fault, and I don't want them trying scare tactics or threatening to take his stuff. If they act professionally then it shouldn't be a problem, but I'd like to know what to do if they do decide to be *******s. Complaints procedures, legal action, proofs required, etc etc.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Starbug

[honeybee13]

Thank you for that.

 

Hopefully BA will be along later.

 

HB

[mikeymack2002]

The easiest solution is to tell them where you live. This solves your dad's problem instantly. That's your decision alone but solves dad's issue. (This is in response to the above)

 

Wait!

 

You do not have to engage with the EA/HCEO at your new address either. Goods are at risk if left outside.

 

Secondly you can ask if the order has been correctly transfered to the High Court. Quite often this has been done incorrectly.

 

Third get a mail box for your mail. The only problem with that is regarding the DVLA and the v5.

 

You have also been advised the get dad to swear an SD get this done asap.

 

You can also still continue with the DRO

[unclebulgaria67]

I don't think an HCEO is going be stopped going to your Dads address and they have no rights of entry. If your Dad has a car on the driveway, they could look at this as opportunity to gain attention, so someone is stressed into making repayments. So your Dad should keep any car locked in a garage or away from the house. They should not touch it, as any DVLA search would reveal it is not in your name, but it might not stop them using it as a way to extract payment.

 

Given that you don't want to provide an alternative address, i think the best way forward is for the company doing the DRO to be informed of what is happening to see if they can do anything. Can an urgent application be made to the court who issued the writ to get it stayed, because of the DRO being applied for ?

[ploddertom]

 

Can an urgent application be made to the court who issued the writ to get it stayed, because of the DRO being applied for ?

 

 

No - as the only acceptance would be a properly completed application that has been completed and actioned.

[Starbug]

The easiest solution is to tell them where you live. This solves your dad's problem instantly. That's your decision alone but solves dad's issue. (This is in response to the above)

 

Wait!

 

You do not have to engage with the EA/HCEO at your new address either. Goods are at risk if left outside.

 

Secondly you can ask if the order has been correctly transfered to the High Court. Quite often this has been done incorrectly.

 

Third get a mail box for your mail. The only problem with that is regarding the DVLA and the v5.

 

You have also been advised the get dad to swear an SD get this done asap.

 

You can also still continue with the DRO

 

Well as far as my car goes at my current address, I have arranged to park it on a friend's drive. But correct me if I'm wrong - before they can do any sort of action at this address, they have to send me a "notice of enforcement" to this address, am I right? This will give me the notification I need and I'll know that I've been traced here and move my car to the private drive. Hopefully it won't come to this, but I'm just being cautious at this stage. Loss of my car means loss of my income, and I'd have to prove that I use it for work and prove the value etc. Hassle I don't need.

 

How can I check if it's been transferred to the high court correctly? To be honest, I don't know anything about it - the judgement was done in my absence. I was considering applying to get it set aside as I had a defence planned, but now thin the DRO route may be easier. But it may still be worth getting a stay of execution and getting it set aside?

 

With regard to the statutory declaration - what does he have to do here? Swear that I don't live there? Or that the stuff in the flat belongs to him?

 

Thanks.