Bailiffs to call at my parents "care of" address?

[ploddertom]

 

How can I check if it's been transferred to the high court correctly? You would have to ring the Royal Courts of Justice Enforcement Section for this but would doubt very much there was anything wrong with it. To be honest, I don't know anything about it - the judgement was done in my absence. I was considering applying to get it set aside as I had a defence planned, but now thin the DRO route may be easier. But it may still be worth getting a stay of execution and getting it set aside? I doubt that A Stay would be granted if you were going to ask having submitted a DRO.

 

With regard to the statutory declaration - what does hehave to do here? Swear that I don't live there? Or that the stuff in the flat belongs to him? Best bet is to allow him in to see that you do not have any belongings there or visible signs of residency.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Set Aside may be a possibility but only if your defence can prove you did not owe the sum originally demanded, all docs were sent to an old address & if you admit the debt in part that you can show you can pay this.

Edited July 9, 2016 by honeybee13
Old username removed

[Bailiff Advice]

 

Bailiff Advice - you've asked me lots of questions, but haven't recommended a course of action.

 

The problem with the enforcement of High Court debts is that even if you wanted to make a payment proposal (which you cannot), the enforcement agent is under a legal obligation to attend the writ address on behalf of the judgment creditor. This is not the case with other debts. it is only applicable to CCJ's enforced via the High Court.

 

From your earlier posts, it would appear that your father lives in a modest flat. He owns a vehicle that would obviously be in his name. The agent is not able to force entry into domestic premises and cannot take a vehicle that is not in your name.

 

I mentioned above that you cannot make a payment proposal. My reason for saying this is because, as you have started the process of a DRO, you could be seen as preferring one creditor over another.

 

Given your circumstances, I would suggest that you contact The Sheriffs Office to explain that you are not wanting to run away from this debt but that you are in the process of applying for a Debt Relief Order. I have always found them to be very helpful. If you do encounter difficulties, please post back and I will try to get permission from one of the moderators to allow me to send contact details of an individual who will hopefully assist you.

Edited July 9, 2016 by honeybee13
Old username removed.

[Starbug]

Bailiff Advice - thanks for the reply. I don't understand though... if I contact the Sheriff's office, surely they'll still have to visit my father's address? And won't they press me to give out my address? I was worried that if I spoke to them, they may say "give us your address or we'll keep visiting your father's". Whereas if I don't speak to them at all, they will visit my dad's, he'll tell them I don't live there, and they'll have to return empty handed and start the tracing process again.

 

Also, how would they be able to help? As far as I understand, they are obliged to visit, and you just confirmed that. So what could I possibly achieve by telling them about my situation? Do you think they'd actually hold off visiting for a few weeks?

 

With regard to my dad's car - won't he have to show a receipt? It's quite an old car, worth less than £1000, but he's had it for ages and might not have the receipt. It's insured, taxed and registered in his name, so I'm hoping they won't try it on. But I'd rather be knowledgeable about it beforehand just in case.

[Homer67]

Get your Dad to either tell them where you live or do a statutory declaration in a Solicitor's for about £20 to state that you do not live and have no ownership of anything at your Dad's address.

[unclebulgaria67]

Bailiff Advice - thanks for the reply. I don't understand though... if I contact the Sheriff's office, surely they'll still have to visit my father's address? And won't they press me to give out my address? I was worried that if I spoke to them, they may say "give us your address or we'll keep visiting your father's". Whereas if I don't speak to them at all, they will visit my dad's, he'll tell them I don't live there, and they'll have to return empty handed and start the tracing process again.

 

Also, how would they be able to help? As far as I understand, they are obliged to visit, and you just confirmed that. So what could I possibly achieve by telling them about my situation? Do you think they'd actually hold off visiting for a few weeks?

 

With regard to my dad's car - won't he have to show a receipt? It's quite an old car, worth less than £1000, but he's had it for ages and might not have the receipt. It's insured, taxed and registered in his name, so I'm hoping they won't try it on. But I'd rather be knowledgeable about it beforehand just in case.

 

As i see it, you have two choices here.

 

1) Tell the HCEO your current address and your current position applying for a DRO. If the DRO company are willing to issue letter about the current status of the DRO and that this debt will be included. Also that before a DRO can go through it is not possible to enter into any agreement, as that would disadvantage other creditors. The HCEO might still wish to visit to see if you have any goods that could be sold to pay the debt.

 

2) you inform your Dad about the situation and he tells them that you do not live at the address or hold any property at the address. He could get a statutory declaration done, but they might just ignore it. Once they see you don't live at the address, they will carry out searches to try to find you and put it on hold. Once your DRO goes through you advise them and all creditors.

Edited July 9, 2016 by honeybee13
Old username removed

[Starbug]

Set Aside may be a possibility but only if your defence can prove you did not owe the sum originally demanded, all docs were sent to an old address & if you admit the debt in part that you can show you can pay this.

Well it would be a part admission, so that rules that option out as I don't have the money to pay it at the moment. Unless I contested the full amount? But I doubt I'd win that battle. I didn't realise I'd have to prove that I can pay if I do a part admission... why couldn't I pay in instalments?

[Starbug]

Get your Dad to either tell them where you live or do a statutory declaration in a Solicitor's for about £20 to state that you do not live and have no ownership of anything at your Dad's address.

Yeah this seems to be the thing to do. I told my dad this but he doesn't seem bothered. Maybe if they're persistent he'll change his mind, but I guess we'll have to wait until the first visit to find out.

[Starbug]

As i see it, you have two choices here.

 

1) Tell the HCEO your current address and your current position applying for a DRO. If the DRO company are willing to issue letter about the current status of the DRO and that this debt will be included. Also that before a DRO can go through it is not possible to enter into any agreement, as that would disadvantage other creditors. The HCEO might still wish to visit to see if you have any goods that could be sold to pay the debt.

 

2) you inform your Dad about the situation and he tells them that you do not live at the address or hold any property at the address. He could get a statutory declaration done, but they might just ignore it. Once they see you don't live at the address, they will carry out searches to try to find you and put it on hold. Once your DRO goes through you advise them and all creditors.

I'm in two minds about contacting them first, as they'll know I've seen the enforcement letter and may pressure my dad more. I think it'll be option 2 for now, and I'll just have to hope that I get the DRO in place in time. I also don't want a bailiff banging on my door here, as I'm in rented accommodation and don't want the landlady to know about this. I like this flat and don't want to lose it. I was lucky to get it with my credit history.

[ploddertom]

Well it would be a part admission, so that rules that option out as I don't have the money to pay it at the moment. Unless I contested the full amount? But I doubt I'd win that battle. I didn't realise I'd have to prove that I can pay if I do a part admission... why couldn't I pay in instalments?

 

Instalments might be an option but the court would looking at having it cleared within probably a maximum of 6 months - unless you can show your income can only support a small payment. You would still have a CCJ against you though.

Edited July 9, 2016 by honeybee13
Old username removed

[Starbug]

Instalments might be an option but the court would looking at having it cleared within probably a maximum of 6 months - unless you can show your income can only support a small payment. You would still have a CCJ against you though.

Ok, well if I apply to get it set aside, I can show that I'm on a low income. I could then possibly get it written off after I get the DRO set up?

 

I was also advised that I could apply for a stay of execution. At least that could hold off action while I await the DRO?

[ploddertom]

 

I was also advised that I could apply for a stay of execution. At least that could hold off action while I await the DRO?

 

 

Very true but what grounds would you propose to use?

Edited July 9, 2016 by honeybee13
Old username removed.

[Starbug]

Very true but what grounds would you propose to use?

Simply that I don't have any assets and don't have the money to pay. There's absolutely nothing I can do to pay it at the moment.

 

EDIT: Also, I could possibly mention that I hadn't received the court papers? I don't know if that'd help, but it's the truth. They went to my dad's address, he never told me about them as he just puts them in a pile. The only reason I found out about the bailiffs action was because it said "do not ignore" on the letter and my dad called me.

[Bailiff Advice]

Ploddertom will likely answer this shortly as he is the expert on setting aside judgements etc.

[ploddertom]

Before commenting further are you still going ahead with your DRO? If so are using a "free" one - apart from the £90 fee - StepChange for instance. my understanding is they can be set up in a lot less than the 3/4 weeks you have mentioned previously - particularly if you have all the relevant info.

[Starbug]

Before commenting further are you still going ahead with your DRO? If so are using a "free" one - apart from the £90 fee - StepChange for instance. my understanding is they can be set up in a lot less than the 3/4 weeks you have mentioned previously - particularly if you have all the relevant info.

Yeah I'm using a free one. How could I speed things up?

[ploddertom]

If you have a Google around you will see that quite a few say a DRO can be put in place within 48 hours of the application being submitted. To get ready for submission you will need to have all the documentation & proof of debts + the fee must be paid in full (£90).

[Starbug]

If you have a Google around you will see that quite a few say a DRO can be put in place within 48 hours of the application being submitted. To get ready for submission you will need to have all the documentation & proof of debts + the fee must be paid in full (£90).

Yes, from what I've now found, if I give them a call once I've paid the £90 fee it can sometimes come through in 48 hours. This is great news, hopefully I'll be able to put this mess behind me sooner rather than later. Thanks.

 

Best bet is to allow him in to see that you do not have any belongings there or visible signs of residency.

 

Did you write this? I missed this the other day... I'm not sure if this is a good idea? What's to stop them going in and saying "ok, we're just going to list these items to take. Pay up." And they threaten my dad and pressure him to pay my debt.

 

Sure, the spare room there is empty. Would that be enough "evidence" for them to decide that I'm not living there? What if they don't believe him? I don't like giving them any power at all tbh, and would feel uneasy about recommending this. Surely the best option would be to for him to speak to them either through the letterbox or with the door chain on? That way he can show them his ID to show that he's not me, tell them I don't live there and they should in theory leave? I mean, what else can they do? How long would they bang on the door for or make a nuisance of themselves for? I don't know what sort of tactics they could use?

[Bailiff Advice]

Starbug,

 

Concentrate on getting the Debt Relief Order set up. Your father should ensure that he speaks with the enforcement agent either through the letterbox or with the door chain on.

[Starbug]

Starbug,

 

Concentrate on getting the Debt Relief Order set up. Your father should ensure that he speaks with the enforcement agent either through the letterbox or with the door chain on.

Yeah I think this is the safest course of action. I imagine they'll leave eventually? I don't want my father to go through any stress, he's in his 60s, so I hope they're not too pushy. He seems fine with it, and I've said he can give them my number.

 

I'm a bit dubious about calling them first. Mainly because they'll then be aware that I've read the notice of enforcement, and may think I was at that address. The reason I read it was because my dad saw the "do not ignore" on the envelope and called me as it looked important. It's a good job he did else we wouldn't have had any notice and they may have caught him off guard.

[Starbug]

Ok an update. My dad said they'd called and not bothered to knock. He heard the letterbox go and went to check and saw an envelope addressed to me had been posted. He called me and let me know, I've since seen it and it basically says it's about a writ of control, and that it was now going to enforcement stage 2.

 

Here's my theory - they have seen my car registered to that address. They arrived and were disappointed to see it wasn't there, so quietly put the letter through and went away. They did this for two reasons - firstly, it bumps up their charges. Secondly, they wanted to clamp my car first so they had leverage.

 

Thoughts? Are they allowed to go to stage 2 without speaking to anyone? It seems a bit cheeky that they didn't even knock... and if I did live there I would now have to pay an extra £500 odd to settle my debt.

 

I've still waiting on the DRO to come through. I have a couple more questions though. As far as I know, they don't have my current address. If they did somehow find it out, wouldn't they need to send a "notice of enforcement" here before taking any action? Or because the car is registered at my dad's house, could they take it from my place if it was parked on the street? I've parked it on a private drive now, but it's inconvenient and I wanted to know where I stand.

[unclebulgaria67]

Ok an update. My dad said they'd called and not bothered to knock. He heard the letterbox go and went to check and saw an envelope addressed to me had been posted. He called me and let me know, I've since seen it and it basically says it's about a writ of control, and that it was now going to enforcement stage 2.

 

Here's my theory - they have seen my car registered to that address. They arrived and were disappointed to see it wasn't there, so quietly put the letter through and went away. They did this for two reasons - firstly, it bumps up their charges. Secondly, they wanted to clamp my car first so they had leverage.

 

Thoughts? Are they allowed to go to stage 2 without speaking to anyone? It seems a bit cheeky that they didn't even knock... and if I did live there I would now have to pay an extra £500 odd to settle my debt.

 

I've still waiting on the DRO to come through. I have a couple more questions though. As far as I know, they don't have my current address. If they did somehow find it out, wouldn't they need to send a "notice of enforcement" here before taking any action? Or because the car is registered at my dad's house, could they take it from my place if it was parked on the street? I've parked it on a private drive now, but it's inconvenient and I wanted to know where I stand.

 

They can't go to stage 2 without having made an attempt to enforce the debt at stage 1. But they try it on.

 

If they trace you to your current address, then yes the car can be taken control of, providing its value is enough to go towards settling the debt.

 

Get in touch with the DRO company to make them aware of the urgency. Also they can include the CCJ and total of the HCEO fees,

[Starbug]

They can't go to stage 2 without having made an attempt to enforce the debt at stage 1. But they try it on.

 

If they trace you to your current address, then yes the car can be taken control of, providing its value is enough to go towards settling the debt.

 

Get in touch with the DRO company to make them aware of the urgency. Also they can include the CCJ and total of the HCEO fees,

What would be considered an "attempt"? Knocking on the door? They haven't spoken to anyone at all.

 

If they trace me to my current address, don't they need to give me a "notice of enforcement" before they can take the car?

 

With regard to the HCEO fees, don't they get reset if the HCEO is unsuccessful?

[Coughdrop]

What would be considered an "attempt"? Knocking on the door? They haven't spoken to anyone at all.

 

If they trace me to my current address, don't they need to give me a "notice of enforcement" before they can take the car?

 

With regard to the HCEO fees, don't they get reset if the HCEO is unsuccessful?

 

Hi Starbug,

 

I'm no expert whatsoever on High Court enforcement. However, there's a handy guide from the Sheriffs Office which I've got as a pdf, and the following is cited directly from that:

 

"If you do subsequently find the HCEO needs to attend a different address where the

debtor is now located, the HCEO will have to serve a new notice of enforcement on

them, giving a further seven clear days’ notice.

 

Check the debtor is not subject to insolvency proceedings

If they are, you may well decide that the time and cost of suing would be good money

thrown after bad. You can check with Companies House to find out if a company is in

Liquidation or Administration with an “L” or an “A” next to the name.

The Insolvency Service allows you to check individuals and “trading as” names for

bankruptcy and IVA. They also have a helpful “Guide for Creditors” on their site."

 

The above would lead me to think that if you push hard for your DRO to progress, they may consider it is not worth pursuing you further. Thus the advice to concentrate your efforts in that direction seems to be fair to me, based on what I've read. As I said, I'm no expert.

 

With regards to your final question, I think if an HCEO doesn't collect, they don't get paid, so I assume the fees die when it is returned.

 

All is a 'best attempt' from someone who admits to knowing little about this area, but given you've had no other replies, I've had a go at helping you.

 

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along, there's plenty on here.

[Starbug]

Coughdrop - thanks for the reply. Yeah I checked on the Sheriff's website a while back and saw the same thing as you. I'd assume they are required to get a new NOE for another address, but just wanted to check. And the main issue for me is that the car is at this address, and I don't know if they could just turn up here and clamp it, seeing as how it's registered to my previous address and they've already sent a NOE there.

 

I am indeed concentrating my efforts on getting the DRO sorted ASAP. Unfortunately all I can do now is wait, as I've done everything at my end. I think I'll be ok, but I just don't like leaving anything to chance. If I lost the car, I'd lose my job, it's as simple as that.

[HCEOs]

Surely it would make sense to contact the HCEO and let them know that you don't live there and that you're not in a position to pay, have no assets and are applying for a DRO due to your financial position. This could be done by email and they would likely report this to the client asking for further instructions. You could even copy your old landlord in.

 

At least this may stop them re-attending your parents address to attempt to remove goods. The last thing you want is your Dad getting woken up at 6am with an HCEO at the door.

 

In terms of fees, they've visited because you failed to respond to the Notice of Enforcement. They have a duty to do this.

 

If you ignore the first visit at Enforcement Stage 1 it will generally escalate to Enforcement Stage 2. This will likely include a further visit, various tracing and checks and potentially a telephone collection attempt.

 

Despite what some websites state, it is always better to enter into dialogue with enforcement agents, even if it is by a newly created email.