Court Action by Welsh Water

[reallyinthecrap]

Hello,

 

Looking for some advice if possible.

 

I have got in a real mess with Welsh Water and they have reduced the water pressure in my house.

 

I now have no hot water and not enough pressure to refill my toilet which is upstairs.

 

A few years ago, when I ended up as the only person living in my house I switched to a water meter. I was paying on DD and all was rosey.

 

Suddenly, somehow a bill for just under £1000 turned up. I just couldn't understand it.

 

It turns out my water meter was feeding not only my house by my next door neighbours house!.

 

Welsh Water came round and took the water meter off.

 

They then returned a few weeks later to try and fit a meter inside the house but the engineer seemed to think it wasn't possible.

 

About 2 weeks ago WW called me and stated that my water bill for 2012/2013 was due and it is £1300 based on my houses rateable value.

 

So, after not really not knowing how to work out how much they owed me and how much I owed them I stuck my head in the sand.

 

Now I have no water pressure. Just a dribble.

 

Im going to call WW now and try and sort it out but was wondering can i demand a water meter? I really really cannot afford over £100 a month for water and sewerage. I really need to get on a meter.

 

Can they refuse to fit a meter?

 

Thanks

Edited July 5, 2012 by reallyinthecrap
spelling mistake

[BankFodder]

I was sent this by email and asked to put it up on this thread.

It comes from someone who is in the water industry.

 

I have no idea how much of this is relevant to your story. I'm just the messenger here:-

 

 

Hello

 

 

1. Any issues with hot water are nothing to do with the water company – unless when the meter was removed they interfered with the supply in some way. Does this person know a plumber?

2. Pressure issues may be as a result of the shared supply. It could be the case that say, if their neighbour is using lots of water devices – dishwashers, washing machines – at the same time as they are then this could have an effect on pressure. I need to understand the supply situation a bit better before being able to advise on this.

3. If they cannot have a meter fitted then they should have been offered the Assessed Measured Charge. Also if living on their own what about single occupancy tariff. This could be £254 or £288 dependent on circumstances. All this info can be gleaned from www.dwrcymru.co.uk.

4. This person also needs to check for leaks. This could be the reason for the reduced pressure. What was the position prior to the installation of the meter with respect to pressure.

 

They cannot refuse a meter, only say that it is not physically possible to install one because of the configuration of pipes or the way the supply enters into the house. That is why they should be asking for the Assessed Measured Charge.

 

Hope this helps

 

[reallyinthecrap]

As my username suggests I have got myself in the crap again.

 

I had a dispute with Welsh Water because for a period of over a year, when I had a water meter installed, I was paying for the water of the house next to me as well as my own.

 

I had many conversations with WWA stating that the bill was in dispute

 

Anyway, in my typical style, I managed to ignore a notice telling me that they were going to take me to court.

 

So, the upshot is that I not have a CCJ because I failed to defend.

 

Moving on...

 

I now have to pay just under £2k to clear the CCJ which I need to do as I was trying to repair my credit rating.

 

So, I have 2 choices and was looking for some advice on which would be best.

 

I can talk to WWA's DCA and try and arrange a payment schedule? Or I can try and borrow the money somehow.

 

If I manage to arrange a payment schedule with the DCA do you know if there will be additional costs involved please?

If there is a small charge then this would be preferable to going to a family member to borrow the money.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thanks

[Old Cogger]

as you see putting your head in the sand does not work. we probably all been there,

 

well the full story of paying next doors water etc and letters etc in response, as to me it would seem that you would have a case to set aside, did you contact Consumer Council for water to investigate!

 

sure there must be people on here with knowledge in that area?

[reallyinthecrap]

They are aware and have admitted that I was paying for next door's water as well as mine.

 

They even came and removed the water meter once the problem was pointed out.

 

I had not considered a "set aside" is this possible even after the fact?

 

And, yes, I was suffering from "head in the sand" again.

 

Thanks

[Old Cogger]

http://www.ccwater.org.uk/adviceandcomplaints/

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Is this 2k inclusive of next doors water or has it been split appropriately now?

If not split, then grounds for SA.

 

If it has been split already and you have ignored your portion then not grounds.

Who is the dca?

Have you spoken to welsh water to see if they would collect in house?

[reallyinthecrap]

No, it has not been split - they have taken me to court for the full amount...

 

 

I will try and contact WWA now.

 

 

Thanks

[renegadeimp]

I now have to pay just under £2k to clear the CCJ which I need to do as I was trying to repair my credit rating.

 

unless you pay it in full within the first 28 days after judgement was issued, its going to stay on your file for 6 years.

[GrumpyToSayTheLeast]

Although once paid, its not as bad as it sounds. A lot of institutions will ignore ccjs marked as settled. A bank manager once told me that a SETTLED ccj can sometimes be a good thing as it shows that while you got into trouble or had a dispute with someone, you are perfectly capable of managing your affairs. How true that is.......

[reallyinthecrap]

if I pay it will it still go on my file as settled or will it not be added unless I don't pay within 28 days?

[renegadeimp]

If you pay it within 28 days it doesnt get recorded at all. After that, you have to obtain a certificate of satisfaction.

[BankFodder]

Sorry, is there something I've missed here?

 

I understand that you have been sued in the County Court and the judgement has been obtained against you for a water debt which includes the debt which is really owed by your next-door neighbour. You know this and not only that the water company knows this and get you're not planning to get it setaside.

 

If what I understand is correct, then you have an immediate basis for having a setaside of the whole amount and then while they are getting themselves together and getting ready to sue you for the balance, you simply pay off what you agree you owe.

 

That should be the end of the judgement and the end of the story.

 

I don't understand why this hasn't occurred to you already – and I have no idea why this isn't being advised you in this thread.

 

Instead, you seem to be making plans to pay off the entire judgement sum!!!

 

If this is all correct then the only reason that you are in the crap is because you are putting yourself in there and you seem to like it

[reallyinthecrap]

thank you BankFodder!

 

 

I am not familiar with set asides.

 

 

I assumed I had already missed my opportunity to fight this and it was set in stone.

 

 

I will pursue this and thank you for your wisdom!

[Old Cogger]

Sorry, is there something I've missed here?

 

I understand that you have been sued in the County Court and the judgement has been obtained against you for a water debt which includes the debt which is really owed by your next-door neighbour. You know this and not only that the water company knows this and get you're not planning to get it setaside.

 

If what I understand is correct, then you have an immediate basis for having a setaside of the whole amount and then while they are getting themselves together and getting ready to sue you for the balance, you simply pay off what you agree you owe.

 

That should be the end of the judgement and the end of the story.

 

I don't understand why this hasn't occurred to you already – and I have no idea why this isn't being advised you in this thread.

 

Instead, you seem to be making plans to pay off the entire judgement sum!!!

 

If this is all correct then the only reason that you are in the crap is because you are putting yourself in there and you seem to like it

 

 

Para 2

 

as you see putting your head in the sand icon does not work. we probably all been there,

 

well the full story of paying next doors water etc and letters etc in response, as to me it would seem that you would have a case to setaside, did you contact Consumer Council for water to investigate!

 

sure there must be people on here with knowledge in that area?

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[BankFodder]

When did they agree with you about the neighbour's water - before or after the court case?

 

When you approach them for the setaside, they may well suggest to you that if you pay off the agreed sum, they will mark the debt as satisfied. You must refuse this. Only a complete setaside will do.

 

You must not explain to them that you agree part of the bill. You must tell them that you deny it all and that you intend to defend it all. We will help you draft the application.

 

Did they eventually send you paperwork relating only to your own bill? Have the agreed in writing that they have overcharged you?

 

Please read our customer services guide and implement the advice there. Do it straightaway. You must start the business of applying for the setaside on Monday.

 

Frankly I am amazed that you have apparently been with us since 2011 and you act in this kind of supine way.

[Ganymede]

Although once paid, its not as bad as it sounds. A lot of institutions will ignore ccjs marked as settled. A bank manager once told me that a SETTLED ccj can sometimes be a good thing as it shows that while you got into trouble or had a dispute with someone, you are perfectly capable of managing your affairs. How true that is.......

 

Unfortunately that's not even slight true anymore.

 

Even a settled CCJ will destroy a credit file and stop a mortgage application.

[reallyinthecrap]

When did they agree with you about the neighbour's water - before or after the court case?

 

Before. Although I have no written proof. Although they did remove the water meter after the problem was discovered. I cannot see how they can deny this.

 

When you approach them for the setaside, they may well suggest to you that if you pay off the agreed sum, they will mark the debt as satisfied. You must refuse this. Only a complete setaside will do.

 

So I approach WWA for the setaside - not the court?

 

What happens if they refuse the setaside?

 

You must not explain to them that you agree part of the bill. You must tell them that you deny it all and that you intend to defend it all. We will help you draft the application..

 

 

Understood - many thanks!

 

Did they eventually send you paperwork relating only to your own bill? Have the agreed in writing that they have overcharged you?

 

 

No. I have not had an adjusted bill.

 

Please read our customer services guide and implement the advice there. Do it straightaway. You must start the business of applying for the setaside on Monday.

 

 

I cannot seem to find this customer service guide. Today is Monday and I intend to ring WWA today.

 

Frankly I am amazed that you have apparently been with us since 2011 and you act in this kind of supine way.

 

I know. And I apologise.

[BankFodder]

• Well I must say, though I had gathered from your posts that your information was solid and that you had written evidence about it.
  
• If you have read our guidance on setaside then you would understand that it is sensible to contact the claimant first
  
• Once again, I thought that you had evidence and that it was done and dusted.
  
• Our customer services guide is under the link - customer services. All you have to do is click the link and then read it and implement it
  

 

Frankly I don't think that you should start phoning people or talking to them about anything before you have:-

 

 

1. read up a little bit about customer services and also about set-asides and that you understand what you're doing – because you don't seem to know
   
2. Implemented a system which allows you to record the calls and then try to discuss the matter with Welsh water in a way that gets them to agree that yes that they have made a mistake and that they did overcharge you and that the reason for changing the meter was because both properties were being metered
   

If you don't do this, then you're going to find yourself talking to people who might make all sorts of interesting admissions which if you recorded them would put you into an excellent position but as it is if you're not following the basic guidance that we give on this site then any possible advantages that you might get are potentially thrown down the toilet along with the water

 

The information you need is under a series of links which occur repeatedly throughout this thread during our discussion. You don't appear to have decided to click on any of them to find out anything about the information we are telling you.

[reallyinthecrap]

Hello,

 

 

I hope I have now followed your guidance.

 

 

I read up about setasides and the customer services and have contacted WWA trying to get more information about the problem.

 

They have refused to agree to a setaside but they have confirmed the dates that I had the water meter installed. It was from 5/11/2008 through to 14/5/2012.

 

I have recorded the phone call as suggested but at no point was I able to get them to agree to the fact that they knew I was paying for next doors water as well as my own.

 

In fact, they once again stated that I should try and get the money from the "3rd party" - meaning the next door neighbour...

 

So, it looks like I need to apply for the setaside myself?

 

 

Using the reason that it would be in the "interest of justice"?

 

Thanks for any help..

[AndyOrch]

" Using the reason that it would be in the "interest of justice"?

 

Not really more like ...you do not owe that money...you shouldn't have a CCJ and you want costs for your time dealing with this.

 

Andy

[reallyinthecrap]

I have a N244 in front of my so I can start collating the necessary information.

 

 

A lot of the boxes I have the information for but I was hoping for some guidance with some questions if I may?

 

 

Question 3: "What order are you asking the court to make and why"

 

 

Answer: "I am asking the court to setaside judgement as I do not owe this money" - should I go into more detail? or is that enough?

 

 

Question 5: "How do you want this application to be dealt with?"

 

 

Not sure which would be best here? Is the hearing to discuss the complete "case" or is it just to get the setaside?

 

Question 10: "What information will you be relying on, in support of your application"?

 

 

This is where I assume I need to somehow provide proof that I was paying for next doors water? Which I don't have... Am I just to make a "statement of case" and fill out a description of what I believe has occurred?

 

Again, any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

How amazing that they have told you to claim the money from your next-door neighbour. It is a good thing that you got this recorded because this will help you enormously.

 

Please make sure that you keep this recording secure. Don't have any accidents and lose it.

 

If the recording is on your mobile phone then email it to yourself so that you got a copy on your computer as well – and maybe a copy somewhere else.

 

Get yourself a form N244 from the courts website.

 

Most of it is self-explanatory but in section 3 you will say

 

I wish to set aside the judgement dated XXX. I did not owe the money claimed. The claimants had installed a water meter which was measuring the water consumption of my property and of my neighbours so that I was being built for both.

 

I did not defend the claim because I am a private individual and I was frightened and did not know what to do. I have now taken advice and I am confident that I have a good defence and that I can succeed if I can proceed with the action.

To question four you say no

 

To question five you say that you wanted dealt with without a hearing (although there may be a hearing)

 

To question eight you put – District Judge

 

To question nine you put – The Claimant

 

To question 10 you put – the evidence set out below

 

Then in the evidence box that you are given put

 

I am a private individual and I have been in dispute with the claimant water supplier for over a year about the size of my bill. I have been telling them that it has been incorrectly metered and that I have been paying the water bill both for myself and for my neighbour.

 

The claimant disagreed and eventually issued a claim against me. I was so frightened that I did nothing about it. This was wrong. After the judgement I had further discussions with Welsh water and suddenly they removed the meter and replaced it and I now believe that my water by is being correctly metered. The claimant, Welsh water has still refused to agree to refund me and they have refused to agree to my set-aside application. Instead they told me that I should claim any overpayment from my neighbour.

 

I am sure that they are wrong in law. I understand that incorrectly installed meters which meter more than one property is not an uncommon error with water companies.

 

I am sorry for any problems this causes the claimant or the court.

[AndyOrch]

I have a N244 in front of my so I can start collating the necessary information.

 

 

A lot of the boxes I have the information for but I was hoping for some guidance with some questions if I may?

 

 

Question 3: "What order are you asking the court to make and why"

 

 

Answer: "I am asking the court to set a side judgement Pursuant to CPR 13.2 (1a) the defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim " - should I go into more detail? or is that enough?

 

 

Question 5: "How do you want this application to be dealt with?" With Hearing

 

 

Not sure which would be best here? Is the hearing to discuss the complete "case" or is it just to get the setaside? Use box 10

 

Question 10: "What information will you be relying on, in support of your application"?

 

Just draft a short synopsis of why you are not liable for the claim.See above Bankfodders response

 

This is where I assume I need to somehow provide proof that I was paying for next doors water? Not at this stage you can present your evidence at the hearing Which I don't have... Am I just to make a "statement of case" and fill out a description of what I believe has occurred?

 

Again, any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thanks

 

Regards

 

Andy