Me and My Various Benefit Claims and issues

[boomboomboom]

For me my PWP Coach recommended I fill in my details on UJM (did not say I had to only advised I do) just to cover my back, so for me I use it daily and record everything on it (all jobs I have seen on it for me are via an external website, so if I see a job and it says reed.co.uk under it, I go direct to reed and apply from there)

 

 

when I do see my coach, she has my UJM details on her screen and sees exactly the same thing I do, nothing extra (not to say more details aren't being gathered in the background for checking up on me)

 

 

I do also use the paper job book along side this, as this is what they look at when I sign on

 

 

IMO, as long as you at least stick to your job seekers agreement, recording details on UJM, paper book, printed word documents etc it shouldn't matter

 

 

Yes mistakes can happen and people get wrongly sanctioned, but if you are doing everything you are supposed to (and more) then this should get overturned

 

 

I know most don't agree with using UJM, but I can only give my experience of using it along with my local job centre, which has not been negative so far

 

most of this is just the same as me i apply for 95% jobs on here sites but put them on my ujm.

 

so much effort these days u have to put in just to go do a quick signing on and wait for your £100+ a fortnight which is people think is alot but to be honest when your signing on it is not.

[Chester6]

most of this is just the same as me i apply for 95% jobs on here sites but put them on my ujm.

 

so much effort these days u have to put in just to go do a quick signing on and wait for your £100+ a fortnight which is people think is alot but to be honest when your signing on it is not.

They want more and more each time you sign on in terms of details and they don't bother being polite or professional very often

Plus there's been no support and based on their actions and attitude they have no understanding of what support is or what it entails

[boomboomboom]

just been told that "section 3 of the social security act 1998" gives the dwp the right to contact employers only if its a "matched" vacancy. so basically one they found for you and told you to apply for any vacancies you find for yourself are your business you can still put them down on your jobsearch sheet etc but the JC CANT contact them unless you give them permission is which u would not so they have no way inless they gave u a job to apply for.

[Mr.P]

There have been reports that keylogger programmes are used on Jobcentre IADs in order to obtain personal information of users who would not otherwise willingly give it.

 

It is extremely unlikely that there is any keylogging programmes installed on a JCP IAD despite what you have heard/read on the internet - If any software of this type has been installed at the request of a DWP official, he would be in serious trouble and possibly be facing a spell in prison. Do not believe everything you read on the internet.

 

If you are concerned about keyloggers, root kits, spy-ware, or any of the other nasty bits of software out there, use a computer that is relatively immune to this sort of thing. Get a Mac, or install one of the many Linux distributions available for free.

[boomboomboom]

It is extremely unlikely that there is any keylogging programmes installed on a JCP IAD despite what you have heard/read on the internet - If any software of this type has been installed at the request of a DWP official, he would be in serious trouble and possibly be facing a spell in prison. Do not believe everything you read on the internet.

 

If you are concerned about keyloggers, root kits, spy-ware, or any of the other nasty bits of software out there, use a computer that is relatively immune to this sort of thing. Get a Mac, or install one of the many Linux distributions available for free.

 

ye i doubt it and there far to many things that go about on the internet that u believe or u dont believe but i agree they would be in serious trouble if someone found them things on any dwp computer as u would be prison simple as that.

 

and i think if they did find it on the computers there would be a lot of explaining to do and am sure there would be a lot of people complaining about they should no be told or made to use ther websites to do job search etc as if it happened once who says it would not happen again know what i mean?

[Lapsed Workaholic]

I have already mentioned what Chapter 3, section 25 of the DWP’s own UJ Toolkit says:

25. UJ brings a shift in the focus from helping claimants search for jobs, to looking instead at the claimant’s activity on UJ.

 

I know I read the above statement off the internet and copied it on here but the DWP put it up there. I appreciate your warning of caution but I can distinguish between fact and fantasy too.

 

I tried to spell out in the previous post how security and privacy can be compromised by allowing Jobcentre advisers access to UJ Accounts and through it to the hard drive of one’s home computer.

 

Next, I put it to you, that if the statement above still holds true and the focus of UJ is not on helping claimants search for jobs but to look instead at the claimant’s activity on UJ, then how can UJ fulfil its primary function of focusing on the claimant's activity on UJ unless it can use cookies, tracking or even keystroke logging tools to look at and record the claimant’s activities when he/she uses UJ on the Jobcentre’s own IAD machines?

 

The Jobcentre’s own IAD machines are not solely for the use of claimants to access UJ. They are used for other purposes too. I gleaned that snippet from a DWP Freedom of Information response, so here again one can take it or leave it I suppose. I am not sure what law we can claim they are breaking if they choose to put any programme they like on their own machines.

 

Talking about the law I have mentioned in a previous post:

The Welfare Reform and Pensions Act 1999 (Section 72) (Relevant Authority) Designation Order 2013.

This order makes changes to previous laws so as to enable DWP and Work Programme Providers to contact employers and enquire about benefit claimants any time they want.

 

It is true that the harder one tries to placate the beast the more the beast demands.

 

I know many of us want to take on this corrupt and repressive system. We know the odds are stacked against us. But we are wasting our time if we choose of our own free will to allow the adversary not only to choose the weapons but to hold them as well.

 

What happened to the old spirit “So long as but one hundred of us remain alive....” No offence meant here to English friends but we in Scotland are just two and a half months away from taking one of the most momentous decision taken in Scotland for over a thousand years. One can almost taste it, freedom.

 

Well we can do the same here in this battle, all that’s needed is the will and the spirit and the conviction that ‘yes we can’ shake off the shackles of repression, subjugation and tyranny.

[essexmat]

I don't know HOW MANY times I have to say this but I will again:

 

- You WILL NOT find a proper job on UJM

- Most listed 'jobs' are fake or seasonal or part time/zero contract

- The site rarely works

- If you must use it UNTICK DWP ACCESS immediately

- Lastly, it IS NOT a job site, it is a DWP spying tool used to dish out sanctions

[boomboomboom]

i was speaking to a woman at my local job club she was just starting her "business admin course" there and she told me that she will be here for 20weeks and she will be getting her benefit as the job centre have let her take this up she will be 9.30-4 and no signing on for her. i think i might do this and get 20 weeks of computing and thats with your job centre cash still getting payed without going to sign on do u think i should do this as there not many jobs going and maybe do well and get a job with someone 20 weeks and still get your benefit cant argue with this eh!?

[jasta11]

While it may get you off signing-on, you'll most likely still have to show jobsearch evidence to someone, as you're technically still 'unemployed and looking' even while on a course.

 

When I did the 14 weeks with Learning Links (just to get away from Ingeus for a while), I still had to do jobsearch and show it to them, and technically they could report to Ingeus and the JC if I wasn't doing enough. Luckily they were decent people and I had no problems though. Possibly the Jobclub people will expect to still see jobsearching going on and report any failings to the JC. Make sure you know exactly what's involved before you commit yourself to the course.

 

Can't imagine the wonderful JC letting people off signing AND their jobsearch.

[Jmulv]

So to update this thread again,

 

Not much has been happening after work programme for me, it's just been weekly signing on and sending me to the odd course here and there.

 

Now I've been notified today I will be placed on mandatory work activity scheme, I really can't be bothered with this. However she did say it'd be something charity based and I thought ok well not so bad I guess.

 

I have to go for 4 weeks full time hours, it also says on the sheet I have to job search and still attend the job centre. This is ridiculous? if I'm basically working full time how will I attend the job centre every week....

 

Has anyone else been sent on MWA? what have your experiences been?

 

I may make a separate thread to find some others who've been sent on it.

 

They also keep hassling me about universal job match in various ways, telling me oh using universal job match is on your claimant commitment etc (Which I know she's trying to use careful language to scare me into using it and allowing her access but I'm not stupid I just nod along knowing she is powerless to make me use it). I will not give them UJM access no chance am I going to open myself up to another line of fire. I usually write my job searching activities down and bring in print off's of jobs I've applied for.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Your idea to open a separate thread to discuss Mandatory Work Activity is a sound one. Otherwise it could end up being lost and confused among the maze of issues already introduced on this thread.

 

 

As for UJM, the subject has been beaten to death. You can't be forced to use it or into allowing Jobcentre advisers access to it, or sanctioned for refusing to use it or allow Jobcentre advisers access to it. That is the law. End of.

[Jmulv]

Jmulv,

In your first post of this thread you mention signing a new Claimant Commitment at your first Post Work Programme Interview. All the clerical work you subsequently describe seems to stem from the requirements as listed on that Claimant Commitment.

 

In the 16th post of this thread you say that your Jobseeker’s Agreement has not been changed.

 

I take it that the benefit you are claiming is Jobseekers Allowance? If that is so, the laws and regulations applicable to Jobseekers Allowance would apply in your case. Claimant Commitment, which is introduced under Universal Credit in the Welfare Reform Act of 2012, would not apply or be legally enforceable if the Judge's directions in the case CJSA/1814/2007, mentioned in post 18, which sets out clearly what the requirements are to qualify for Jobseekers Allowance and what the Jobseeker's Agreement should properly contain, were to apply.

 

Only by flouting the law as set out in that case can any of the commitments that you appear to have accepted be enforced.

 

Unless anyone can point to any particular clause in any subsequent legislation that repeals the relevant sections of the Jobseeker’s Act, or the ruling in the case cited is turned on its head, I can’t see how even ignoring that Claimant Commitment completely would attract a penalty or a sanction.

 

As for myself, I have ignored CC completely and refused to have anything to do with it. Likewise Universal Jobmatch. I got some grief for this, still do, but so far they have not been able to enforce compliance on me.

 

Hi,

 

Yeah i've heard of this. That apparently the claimant commitment if you choose not to follow it entirely will not result in a sanction. I play it safe and generally abide by the rules on my claimant commitment as they're not too bad. They tell me I need to sign on universal job match daily and I haven't done this at all, she talked about that today and pestered me again about universal job match, but I refuse to use it and will just ensure I fill out my work booklet and bring in printouts of my applications.

[Jmulv]

Finished pwps in December 2013 and was put back on jsa 25+ with normal 2 week signing

 

does anyone know if i will be put on htw or put back on wp in december 2014

 

have to see advisor next week for first time in about three months

 

 

How long does PWP last?

 

I've been attending it for quite a while now. They haven't really done anything different to help me much aside brow beat me more if I'm honest, I just sit there nod and take it.

[boomboomboom]

While it may get you off signing-on, you'll most likely still have to show jobsearch evidence to someone, as you're technically still 'unemployed and looking' even while on a course.

 

When I did the 14 weeks with Learning Links (just to get away from Ingeus for a while), I still had to do jobsearch and show it to them, and technically they could report to Ingeus and the JC if I wasn't doing enough. Luckily they were decent people and I had no problems though. Possibly the Jobclub people will expect to still see jobsearching going on and report any failings to the JC. Make sure you know exactly what's involved before you commit yourself to the course.

 

Can't imagine the wonderful JC letting people off signing AND their jobsearch.

 

are u sure?

 

as i spoke to the woman she told me no more job search or going in to the jobcentre or carrying them silly work booklet for 20 weeks and i said u sure u dont have to do job search she went no and thats what the advisor told her and she will be at that course for 20 weeks and dont worry about anything as u will get your job seeker money and she told me to do the same thing as it will give u more experience after it and saves u 20 weeks of jobsearching and lets u keep your mind on a course u wanna do.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Jmulv,

 

That’s OK if you’re content with playing it safe and generally abiding by the rules because you don’t find them too bad. But whose rules are you abiding by and do they have any legitimacy?

 

You say almost the opposite in another recent post, that you are being asked to do something that you really can’t be doing with and that it is ridiculous.

 

If you haven’t realised it already you will ere long that every inch you give they will come back at you for another mile. This is what you get for playing along and being compliant. It makes it all the more galling that you are accepting conditions that can’t be enforced by law written into a commitment that is in itself illegal.

 

You need to decide for yourself whether to accept what they throw at you or fight back. If you decide to fight back you take action using the law as your weapon of choice. It will be tough but even if you have setbacks they can’t make things much worse for you than they appear to be making them already.

 

The PWPS was supposed to be for JSA claimants leaving the Work Programme prior to 28th April 2014 and was meant to last for 6 months but nothing was arranged to replace it or to follow it for JSA claimants. I went onto it back in July 2013 and as far as I know I am still on it and what they can do for me, or more accurately to me, is governed by the PWPS Guidance.

 

The HtW scheme was introduced for JSA/CC claimants who left the Work Programme after 28th April 2014. JSA claimants on PWPS cannot be put on this scheme. Paragraph 3 of the HtW Guidance states this categorically.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Boomboomboom,

 

It would be nice to know exactly what the name of the scheme that your friend is on is. Does it come under PWPS or HtW or some other?

Could someone already on PWPS or HtW get on it just like that?

[boomboomboom]

Boomboomboom,

 

It would be nice to know exactly what the name of the scheme that your friend is on is. Does it come under PWPS or HtW or some other?

Could someone already on PWPS or HtW get on it just like that?

 

its not a scheme its a place like used for a work club also has courses u can do like computing or care etc and the person is doing a business admin course which is for 20 weeks no signing on

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Do you know if or when your friend came off the Work Programme?

 

I know of the bit of the law that says a Jobseeker's Allowance claimant must sign on fortnightly to confirm that they are available for work. I know of the bit that says the claimant must show evidence of actively seeking work. I know of the bit that says failure to comply with the above two bits will result in Jobseeker's Allowance not being paid.

 

I'm afraid I haven't seen or heard of the law that seems to repeal two of the major provisions of the Jobseekers Act 1995.

 

There just has to be something that has so far not been disclosed.

[Tj rodgers]

its not a scheme its a place like used for a work club also has courses u can do like computing or care etc and the person is doing a business admin course which is for 20 weeks no signing on

yea my sister went on a 20 week course i think its for people who havnt finished the work programme though and also im not sure it is available in England as she lives in north wales and your in scotland and i know wales have more full time courses available for those who are on the work program and also in wales they dont have pwps they still have the old job club phase that used to be in England until bout 10 years ago

[Tj rodgers]

She did a 20 week course on baking and cake decorating then another one training with a housing association to be a housing officer

[Tj rodgers]

So to update this thread again,

 

Not much has been happening after work programme for me, it's just been weekly signing on and sending me to the odd course here and there.

 

Now I've been notified today I will be placed on mandatory work activity scheme, I really can't be bothered with this. However she did say it'd be something charity based and I thought ok well not so bad I guess.

 

I have to go for 4 weeks full time hours, it also says on the sheet I have to job search and still attend the job centre. This is ridiculous? if I'm basically working full time how will I attend the job centre every week....

 

Has anyone else been sent on MWA? what have your experiences been?

 

I may make a separate thread to find some others who've been sent on it.

 

They also keep hassling me about universal job match in various ways, telling me oh using universal job match is on your claimant commitment etc (Which I know she's trying to use careful language to scare me into using it and allowing her access but I'm not stupid I just nod along knowing she is powerless to make me use it). I will not give them UJM access no chance am I going to open myself up to another line of fire. I usually write my job searching activities down and bring in print off's of jobs I've applied for.

Yes Mandatory Work Activity is for those who finished the Work Programme Before April 2014 and cant be put on the Help To Work Scheme - normaly your Work Coach Will Look to Put you forward for it after Being on Post Work Program support Longer than 8 weeks or more but normaly only if you are not doing any voluntary work- my old job coach put me forward for it and told me he will give me 4 weeks to find my own voluntary work or i will have to go on MWA but he got transfered to another jobcentre also u cant choose what your MWA will be as it covers Litter picking , and up keep of public buildings and also all local Recycling Plants are signed up to it aswel so it aint just charity shop work

[boomboomboom]

yea my sister went on a 20 week course i think its for people who havnt finished the work programme though and also im not sure it is available in England as she lives in north wales and your in scotland and i know wales have more full time courses available for those who are on the work program and also in wales they dont have pwps they still have the old job club phase that used to be in England until bout 10 years ago

 

i think it is also for people who have not been on the work programme either as the person u was starting her 20 week course said i only started signing on in january and she never been to a work programme so am guessing u can even if your not on the work programme

[jasta11]

are u sure?

 

as i spoke to the woman she told me no more job search or going in to the jobcentre or carrying them silly work booklet for 20 weeks and i said u sure u dont have to do job search she went no and thats what the advisor told her and she will be at that course for 20 weeks and dont worry about anything as u will get your job seeker money and she told me to do the same thing as it will give u more experience after it and saves u 20 weeks of jobsearching and lets u keep your mind on a course u wanna do.

 

Just might be wise to check with the JC and get them to confirm - in writing - that jobsearch evidence will not be required for the time you're on the course.

 

People running courses can say one thing and the JC say another, as we've all found out before. Wouldn't want anyone to be caught out. Be nice if you really don't have to do jobsearch or sign on for 20 weeks though

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Yes Mandatory Work Activity is for those who finished the Work Programme Before April 2014 and cant be put on the Help To Work Scheme - normaly your Work Coach Will Look to Put you forward for it after Being on Post Work Program support Longer than 8 weeks or more but normaly only if you are not doing any voluntary work- my old job coach put me forward for it and told me he will give me 4 weeks to find my own voluntary work or i will have to go on MWA but he got transfered to another jobcentre also u cant choose what your MWA will be as it covers Litter picking , and up keep of public buildings and also all local Recycling Plants are signed up to it aswel so it aint just charity shop work

If a future Administrative Assistant (despite calling themselves the ego-boosting term Work Coach) wishes to arrange an MWA - then advise them to Bring It On, and simply respectfully suggest that Voluntary Work is not Voluntary if there is even a hint of coersion. And simply cordially suggest that, if they were to ring an employer on your behalf, they may even be able to arrange an interview, and a job offer.

 

If you are skilled for the jobs that you are applying for, and possess qualifications, and do everything which is specified within the Job Seekers Agreement, then there is no logic to waste time on MWA - however, there is logic in such an eventuality for you to report the Placement Organisation to HMRC for an attempt to perpetrate Tax Fraud. If you are doing any form of job, and subject to a Verbal or Written Contract of Employment, then are you are legally entitled to National Minimum Wage, and the State entitled to its fair share through Tax and National Insurance.

[Jmulv]

If a future Administrative Assistant (despite calling themselves the ego-boosting term Work Coach) wishes to arrange an MWA - then advise them to Bring It On, and simply respectfully suggest that Voluntary Work is not Voluntary if there is even a hint of coersion. And simply cordially suggest that, if they were to ring an employer on your behalf, they may even be able to arrange an interview, and a job offer.

 

If you are skilled for the jobs that you are applying for, and possess qualifications, and do everything which is specified within the Job Seekers Agreement, then there is no logic to waste time on MWA - however, there is logic in such an eventuality for you to report the Placement Organisation to HMRC for an attempt to perpetrate Tax Fraud. If you are doing any form of job, and subject to a Verbal or Written Contract of Employment, then are you are legally entitled to National Minimum Wage, and the State entitled to its fair share through Tax and National Insurance.

 

I had to laugh

 

Given my work history and background and current life circumstances I did just literally laugh. My advisor made it out how MWA Will help me and give me a bridge to gap the hole in my CV.

 

I really do not know what some of these people are taking, but I think a lot of them have lost touch with reality. Employers DO NOT CARE, if you've done 4 weeks litter picking. It's going to make sod all difference, I've no idea what the goal with MWA actually is but it is definitely not to help you get work that is for sure.

 

I wish they'd be honest about it instead of spew a pile of crap.

 

I'll do it, only because I have too. But I'm not buying into the collective job centre delusion that it is there to help me find work.