Me and My Various Benefit Claims and issues

[Jmulv]

Hi,

 

So thought I'd make a separate thread outside of post work programme support to try and garner more attention specifically to MWA.

 

I've been sent on this, apparently it lasts for 4 weeks. No biggie and apparently they say it'll be charity based work. Now I was thinking oh good stacking shelves at a charity shop or something that'll be OK, and apparently I can carry on with it after 4 weeks. So I thought good an easy way to get into some weekly charity work.

 

But apparently no, it'll be stuff like picking litter or working in a recycling centre anything basically.

 

So then I sort of questioned the usefulness of this scheme and concluded it's just not designed to give you any useful experience or anything like that. It's just to put you to work for a bit, end of story and hopefully force you to sign off or something along those lines.

 

Has anyone else been assigned mandatory work activity yet? what have your experiences been? how long does yours last for and what are you doing?

[boomboomboom]

I had to laugh

 

Given my work history and background and current life circumstances I did just literally laugh. My advisor made it out how MWA Will help me and give me a bridge to gap the hole in my CV.

 

I really do not know what some of these people are taking, but I think a lot of them have lost touch with reality. Employers DO NOT CARE, if you've done 4 weeks litter picking. It's going to make sod all difference, I've no idea what the goal with MWA actually is but it is definitely not to help you get work that is for sure.

 

I wish they'd be honest about it instead of spew a pile of crap.

 

I'll do it, only because I have too. But I'm not buying into the collective job centre delusion that it is there to help me find work.

 

MWA will help you and give u a bridge to gap the in my cv" surely not as like u just said 4 week litter picking is not really gonna get u a job in retail? or computing etc is it? they think if u added something new to your cv a job then ul be getting took on by an employer when u apply for them its utter crap there is no way i know someone who has 4-5 work placement and yet hes still not got a job yet so how they think this will work with a click of a button is beyond a joke.

 

hope u find full time or part work before any MWA

[Tj rodgers]

Hi,

 

So thought I'd make a separate thread outside of post work programme support to try and garner more attention specifically to MWA.

Its

 

I've been sent on this, apparently it lasts for 4 weeks. No biggie and apparently they say it'll be charity based work. Now I was thinking oh good stacking shelves at a charity shop or something that'll be OK, and apparently I can carry on with it after 4 weeks. So I thought good an easy way to get into some weekly charity work.

 

But apparently no, it'll be stuff like picking litter or working in a recycling centre anything basically.

 

So then I sort of questioned the usefulness of this scheme and concluded it's just not designed to give you any useful experience or anything like that. It's just to put you to work for a bit, end of story and hopefully force you to sign off or something along those lines.

 

Has anyone else been assigned mandatory work activity yet? what have your experiences been? how long does yours last for and what are you doing?

Its there coz they think we are bone idle and lazey so the ones who finished the Work Program before april that they cnt put on the "Help To Work Scheme" get put on MWA to make us work for our benefits for 4 weeks

[Chester6]

Was sent on this but it was useless and a waste of time

 

To add insult to injury I later effectively got told by a jobcentre guy how useless volunteering was as experience

[Jmulv]

Was sent on this but it was useless and a waste of time

 

To add insult to injury I later effectively got told by a jobcentre guy how useless volunteering was as experience

 

What did you do for 4 weeks?

 

How long ago was it?

[Madamfluff]

Was sent on this but it was useless and a waste of time

 

To add insult to injury I later effectively got told by a jobcentre guy how useless volunteering was as experience

 

 

Actually that's not quite true and I can prove that on 2 counts.

 

 

After a lifetime of working in offices I was made redundant in March last year at age 58, I thought that I would never work again but was bored on the dole so volunteered in a charity shop I had management experience but no retail experience, last month I applied for a paid job as a charity shop manager and got the job, based solely on the skills learned whilst volunteering. Being a small Island where people know each other I know I beat several candidates who had several years retail experience, there is no way I would have got the job if I had not volunteered. This proves that volunteering can lead to paid work even at my age.

 

 

Now I am the manager I recruit volunteers, one lad who applied is 18 on JSA, he lives in a hostel with piercings and long hair, many people would have rejected him but I gave him a chance, having found out he wanted to do bar work involving customer services and cash handling, I am training him on the till and how to deal with customers , I paid for him to have smart work clothes out of my own pocket and persuaded the charity to let him have some more free, I am also helping him with his CV. I believe what I am doing for him will help him get a paid job. This proves that given a willingness to learn and with the help of someone willing to help, volunteering can lead to training and more paid job opportunities.

[Chester6]

I don't believe his claims, it's just a bad surprise to me though

[dyfed]

Actually that's not quite true and I can prove that on 2 counts.

 

 

After a lifetime of working in offices I was made redundant in March last year at age 58, I thought that I would never work again but was bored on the dole so volunteered in a charity shop I had management experience but no retail experience, last month I applied for a paid job as a charity shop manager and got the job, based solely on the skills learned whilst volunteering. Being a small Island where people know each other I know I beat several candidates who had several years retail experience, there is no way I would have got the job if I had not volunteered. This proves that volunteering can lead to paid work even at my age.

 

 

Now I am the manager I recruit volunteers, one lad who applied is 18 on JSA, he lives in a hostel with piercings and long hair, many people would have rejected him but I gave him a chance, having found out he wanted to do bar work involving customer services and cash handling, I am training him on the till and how to deal with customers , I paid for him to have smart work clothes out of my own pocket and persuaded the charity to let him have some more free, I am also helping him with his CV. I believe what I am doing for him will help him get a paid job. This proves that given a willingness to learn and with the help of someone willing to help, volunteering can lead to training and more paid job opportunities.

 

Yeh its great to get work experiance in a charity shop IF you want to work in a charity shop otherwise its just a waste of time and slave labour.

Also this enforced payless work gets in the way of job hunting.

It also takes the position away from someone who could have paid employment and yes charities do have paid staff.

Just to add that the unemployed are also sent to work for nothing at large corporate retail businesses for example, making a nice profit for share holders and cutting paid employment positions.

[dyfed]

Sorry for double post

Edited July 3, 2014 by dyfed
double post

[Madamfluff]

You very very very WRONG about charity shops.

 

 

First of all 98% of people of people who work in charity shops are UNPAID the other 2% will be a manager and an assistant manager, both me and my AM have the same responsibilities, including shop security, staff management, paperwork, decision making, banking, health and safety, volunteer recruitment, customer service, compliance with legislation, the list is endless and changes on a day to day basis.

 

 

If my Charity took mandated workers it would be to supplement our army of UNPAID volunteers, there is no way at all me and my AMs job could be performed by untrained mandated workers doing 4 weeks at a time - that's a stone cold FACT.

 

 

Your sneering remark about 'its all right if you want to work in a charity shop' actually amused me its not a case of only working in a charity shop but learning new skills to get a job in other sectors, as I said in my original post the young man I am helping wants to do bar work, the cash handling, and customer service skills I am training him in will help him get a job he wants to do and of course he can have as much time off as he needs to go to interviews, hell I would even make sure he has nice interview clothes

 

 

I am totally against people being made to work for large organisations and taking jobs from paid workers (although my post was about volunteering and responding to a statement that it is useless) but sorry that does not include charity shops for the reasons I mentioned above.

[Chester6]

My duties were typical ones for a charity shop

 

Though the lady I saw scraped the barrel for reasons to impress me with some of the choices

 

Volunteering and charity shops are useful but I don't agree with people forced to be there or a charity participating in getting people sanctioned

[Vincent Buenisides]

When I was told I had to "volunteer" in a charity shop, I realised as soon as I got there that I would learn absolutely nothing about the world of work, or develop new skills. It would essentially consist of four weeks of folding clothes - that's it. Luckily, a few days before I was due to start this life changing role, an agency called me up offering upto eight weeks PAID work, albeit boring work. I took a punt on that and it turned out to be 12 weeks and it enabled me to save up a good bit of money. Much better that then listening to old women all day.

 

I was a manager in a charity shop, I would point blank refuse to take on anybody that was forced to attend under duress - it's just not ethical.

[Chester6]

They claim it's proof but it doesn't prove anything if you have done retail before, timekeeping etc is something you can prove regularly and easily too

Ethics is a rare idea now sadly

[SabreSheep]

What it does show is that you want to be part of society and want to work.

 

My housemate complains about having nothing to do, barely takes any advice to improve his work prospects and sends out 1 click applications. He will not do charity work and even in this amazing weather sleeps in till 4pm

 

By filling up some of your spare time doing voluntary work you are demonstrating you want to be part of society and want to work. It gets you out it keeps u in contact with others.

 

I found my housemate a voluntary position for a charity related to his field of work. Did he follow it up. Nope. Happy to stay at home all day being a waste of life.

 

In contrast i managed my own job search and now have a start date. During interview they asked about my gap in employment and I had an answer in regards to voluntary work I had applied for and why I wanted to do it.

[Chester6]

A charity related role is different to being sent there via a government scheme though

Plus willingness or not to volunteer says nothing about your desire to work

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Hi,

 

So thought I'd make a separate thread outside of post work programme support to try and garner more attention specifically to MWA.

 

Any constructive discussion on MWA will be greatly helped by a nodding acquaintance with the Mandatory Work Activity Provider Guidance.

It can be accessed via this link:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/300734/pg-part-p.pdf

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Madamfluff looks like she’s overly reliant on the fluff, not to say with symptoms of the madam.

 

She says;

“Now I am the manager I recruit volunteers, one lad who applied is 18 on JSA”

 

1. Volunteers by definition are not recruited, they volunteer.
   
2. You have no say in who the Jobcentre send to you and you have no choice but to accept them. See Ch 3 sect 6.
   

She says;

“I am training him on the till and how to deal with customers”

Sounds like the lad was being trained on a musical instrument, four weeks to teach an 18 year old to open and close a till suggests a lack of basic intelligence on the part of the lad or a lack of teaching skills on the part of the trainer. Anyone who learnt their customer relations skills dealing with the customers who frequent the charity shops in our locality would be ill-equiped and in for a shock if they applied those skills in our local bars of a Saturday night.

 

She says;

“both me and my AM have the same responsibilities”

So, why the different job titles? Are you paid more? If so have you any qualms about taking more in salary than your fellow worker for doing the same work, not to mention your minions who do the most of the grafting for nothing?

 

Running a charity shop is not quite like running a branch of a high street retailer like, say, M&S. A person of average intelligence working in a charity shop, in any capacity, should easily pick up the necessary skills to run it after a while.

Here are some points from the MWA Provider Guidance that would suggest that your grasp of your responsibilities vis-a-vis MWA is fragile to say the least:

 

Chapter 2 Section 5 of the MWA Provider Guidance says:

JSA is a benefit for people who are unemployed and capable of work. To be eligible, the claimant must be actively seeking and available for work. Claimants in this group are assessed as ready to look for and take up work immediately. It is up to advisers and their managers to decide who is appropriate for referral to MWA.

 

Chapter 2 Section 8 says:

MWA is mandatory for all claimants who are referred. There is no voluntary access to MWA.

 

Chapter 3 Section 6 says:

There are no circumstances where you can make the decision to reject a referral.

 

I have no doubt that your intentions to mother that boy and smother him with kindness is honourable, it’s the system under which you are doing it that I find objectionable.

[Mr.P]

LW: Picking a fight with Madamfluff is probably not a good idea, it will only end in tears.

 

 

As for recuiting volunteers - The two words are not mutually exclusive. It is quite possible to make an appeal for volunteers and have some form of application process in order to select the best ones.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

I is not my intention to pick a fight with Madamfluff, or anyone else for that matter. I was merely trying to point out that her description of the relationship between charity shops and charity shop staff and Jobcentres and MWA do not appear to correspond with the facts as stated in the Guidance.

 

 

I did add the point that in all other respects I have no doubts as to her diligence and charitable nature.

[Tj rodgers]

What it does show is that you want to be part of society and want to work.

 

My housemate complains about having nothing to do, barely takes any advice to improve his work prospects and sends out 1 click applications. He will not do charity work and even in this amazing weather sleeps in till 4pm

 

By filling up some of your spare time doing voluntary work you are demonstrating you want to be part of society and want to work. It gets you out it keeps u in contact with others.

 

I found my housemate a voluntary position for a charity related to his field of work. Did he follow it up. Nope. Happy to stay at home all day being a waste of life.

 

In contrast i managed my own job search and now have a start date. During interview they asked about my gap in employment and I had an answer in regards to voluntary work I had applied for and why I wanted to do it.

Well maybe your house mate feels that if he wanted to volunteer he would do some people like me dnt wish to be a volunteer and want paying for their and payed more than min wage to motivate us to get out of bed before lunch time and anyway how can sumbody doing a mandatory activity be classed as a "volunteer"

[SabreSheep]

Well maybe your house mate feels that if he wanted to volunteer he would do some people like me dnt wish to be a volunteer and want paying for their and payed more than min wage to motivate us to get out of bed before lunch time and anyway how can sumbody doing a mandatory activity be classed as a "volunteer"

 

You miss the point I was saying.

I fond him a voluntary position that he could choose to volunteer for to improve his chances at gaining work AND also to help his mental well being.

It was for a charity, he would of been making a positive difference to other people and it would have been good for him. This was not a profit making business either. And it was related to IT which he claims to be qualified for. However his skills are out of date, his social skills have degenerated to non existant. His confidence and self value is non existance. THATS why he needs to get into volunteering (For something he could enjoy)

 

It took me THREE MONTHS to get him to shorten his 4 page CV into a 2 page 1. He does not want any feedback on how to improve his chances and he openly said once that "He should not be forced to work if he did not want a job"

 

The alternative is the job center will soon find him a voluntary position not relative to his needs or skills and or be forced to sign on daily. ITS about taking responsibility for your own life and not expecting the job center to really help you.

 

At the end of the day its about JOB SEEKING and doing what you need to do to get yourself into work. If voluntary work is whats needed (BUT not for private firms that could employ someone) then they need to do it. If he was employable then he has the right to being employed on at least a minimum wage job. Noone who is fit and able has the right to not improve their employability and actually try.

[Madamfluff]

Yes don't pick a fight with me lapsed not unless YOU know what you are talking about.

 

 

If you read my posts you would have read that my charity does NOT use mandated workers look I will repeat it for you

 

 

If my Charity took mandated workers it would be to supplement our army of UNPAID volunteers, there is no way at all me and my AMs job could be performed by untrained mandated workers doing 4 weeks at a time - that's a stone cold FACT.

 

 

So therefore I have NO responsibilities vis a vis MWA do I?

 

 

Now seeing as I don't use mandated staff it now becomes apparent (well at least to a person of average intelligence ) that the young man in question volunteered so why do you find the way I am helping him objectionable BTW your sneering comments about me mothering him are f@@@@@ offensive, because I believe (and I wish more people did) that older workers with experience should be helping younger workers, as these younger workers are our FUTURE.

 

 

As to your other comments which I find laughable by the way I will endeavour to answer some of them but TBH if you are so dismissive about what I and my company do you are going to be unable to understand my answers anyway - but I will have a go.

 

 

Of course volunteers are recruited and they are recruited for specific roles, it would be no use having a shop full of elderly lady volunteers when you actually needed people in the back room lifting heavy bags and steaming would it?.

 

 

People who work in Tesco may only open and close a till (although I bet they would have something to say about that description of their jobs) people who work in my shop do so much more, and yes I believe someone with customer facing experience even in a charity shop will have more chance of getting a job that requires that type of knowledge in fact I KNOW they do as that's what happened with me.

 

 

Your comments about my assistant manager amused me, If you have ever worked you would know that in ALL companies have second in commands , as it happens I only earn 50p an hour more then her, BUT I have the ultimate responsibility for my shop, the buck stops with me I stand or fall on my shops performance not my assistant manager.

 

 

Oh and I do not have minions actually I have people who not only work for me but WITH ME but then I treat all people with respect (look up the word if you don't know what it means).

 

 

Yes you are right a charity shop is not like M&S I wish it was, then yesterday I could have opened a load of boxes with presized, prepriced stock and put it on the shop floor using a prearranged plan, not breaking my back (and my nails) going through 150 bags of donated stock, sorting, sizing tagging and pricing ( and yes that part of the job is my responsibility as I have the final say in the quality of stock I put out,) OMG I would love a cushy job in M&S do you know of any vacancies, mind you as I said in my first post I actually beat 2 candidates with high street retail experience for this job so maybe working for M&S and the like isnt all its cracked up to be

 

Also don't sneer at my intelligence thank you very much having been packaging/print manager for one of the largest supermarket chains in the UK and paying almost twice as much in tax and NI a month then I am actually earning in this job I am well aware of my capabilities thank you very much

 

 

 

 

[Lapsed Workaholic]

As I’ve already said Madamfluff it was not my intention to pick a fight but to redirect you onto the path of righteousness. Sorry to have ruffled your feathers, but you really need to say what you mean and mean what you say.

 

You said:

 

“Now I am the manager I recruit volunteers, one lad who applied is 18 on JSA”

 

You also said that there is no way a worker mandated for 4 weeks could do your job but if your charity took mandated workers on it would be to supplement your army of unpaid volunteers. If you have an army of unpaid volunteers I don’t see the need for mandated JSA claimants. Attempting to alter or imply a different interpretation of your remarks by now putting an emphasis on “If” in the sentence will not wash.

 

Considering that this thread is about MWA, that the lad that you are using is on JSA, that you mentioned a 4 week period, that he is being trained in the skills deemed to be necessary for future potential paid employment, is it unreasonable to suppose that you just might have been discussing and/or making a case for MWA?

 

If the lad is not on MWA, as you now appear to be suggesting, then what he does or doesn’t do, what you do or don’t do with regard to him, has no relevance to a discussion on MWA and one wonders what your motive is for going on about it.

 

A volunteer is a volunteer, if he volunteers to do voluntary work in charity shops that’s up to him. The employment status of volunteers is not usually a condition though; many volunteers are also in paid employment. I’m not sure if charity shops, as a rule, take it upon themselves, or include in the role of their paid managers the task of training volunteers free gratis and for nothing for future paid employment with other employers.

 

You said;

 

“.....both me and my AM have the same responsibilities, including shop security, staff management, paperwork, decision making, banking, health and safety, volunteer recruitment, customer service, compliance with legislation, the list is endless and changes on a day to day basis”.

 

Now you say the list is not endless, there’s 50p per hours’ worth of difference. I asked for clarification on why the different titles. You have now given the clarification, totally different to what you implied in your previous post.

 

I did not sneer at your intelligence, nor did I insult you. On the contrary you should learn to keep your own emotions and complexes in check. In your first post on this thread you accused Chester6 of not telling the truth when he gave his opinion of his experience and what his adviser said to him. In your next post you accuse someone else of being wrong and sneering.

 

The rest of your subjective remarks, views, opinions, are your own and irrelevant to the discussion.

[Madamfluff]

Don't you dare to presume to redirect me into anything

 

 

get your facts straight

 

 

I did not call chester a liar I responded to his JCAs statement that volunteering is useless by recounting my own experiences and as the thread had veered of into talk about volunteering as apposed to MWA I carried on in that vein talking about volunteering and how it can help.

 

 

I am not suddenly appearing to suggest that the young man in question is not on MWA I said he is on JSA so what? I volunteered when I was on JSA half the volunteers I worked with were on JSA I did not in any way shape of form suggest he was on MWA , the fact that you assumed that's what I meant just because the initial thread is about MWA is not my problem.

 

 

Why are you harping on about my AM wages my stance has not changed, we do the same job but I have overall responsibility as manager that's the way management levels work in all companies, I really didn't think that anyone who ever had a job would need that explaining to them, perhaps you can ask the manager of your local Tesco why he gets paid more then his assistant manager when they do the same job, he will give you the same answer as me.

 

 

I have not altered or implied a different meaning to my statement about mandated workers by highlighting the word 'if,' it was there all the time only you didn't bother to or didn't want to read it, don't know about you but if someone else had said 'if my company took mandated workers' I would know that they didn't.

 

 

You say you didn't insult me or sneer about my intelligence - er yes you did when you wrote that running a charity shop is not like running a high street store and that anyone of 'average intelligence' can do the job.

 

 

 

[stu007]

Ok ladies and Gentlemen

 

Can we please keep this topic civil as the OP has can here for help please bear that in mind.

 

constructive discussion I can accept but arguing between two parties I wont that isn't helping resolve the OPs issue and is not acceptable so it stops now.

 

Now back to topic