Me and My Various Benefit Claims and issues

[antone]

I've had other advisors before in fact a few different ones and NONE of them have been like this at all. She was off sick the other week as well and I had a different advisor then again and they were totally fine.

 

Yes, many of them are fine - it's not true that they're all offensive. I think the first thing to do would be to write to the manager of your Jobcentre and explain the situation. It is possible to be assigned to another adviser in some cases, but they won't do it without being shown a good reason.

 

So write, and it goes without saying that your letter should be polite, concise and factual.

[Mr.P]

My personal experience is all these advisers are like that, you could try complaining but chances are the next one would be as bad.

 

I get the distinct impression that attitudes vary across regions and also within the same office. My general experience of JCP staff is that most want to help if you can demonstrate that you are trying your best to find work. I've only come across one dictatorial jobsworth for a single appointment that didn't last long - If faced with regular confrontations with a threatening FLA, I'd start recording all interactions and insisting on copies of all paperwork and notes generated by said "adviser".

 

Once sufficient documentation had been acquired, an informal complaint to his/her manager showing misleading advice and failure of "due process" may prompt a change in attitude or lead to further training for the FLA in question.

[Jmulv]

What happens at your first post work programme meeting? I've been informed about it occurring as my time is coming to an end.

 

 

I'm coming to end of my work programme at end of March I started WP 2 years ago 22nd of mark so will that mean my post work programme will be at end of march not the start? Reason is because I've just decided benefits is enough really I've luckily had an opportunity arise through a friend where I can secure some part time work (hopefully) which is fantastic that is just awesome to me! and i'm hoping to begin before this horrible post work programme crapp.

 

 

Reason I ask is my last work programme appointment was like a year ago or more and I only had a handful over my entire time.... they got my wrong address on their system and never bothered to sort it, I had few phone convos now n again with my advisor but my impression was they couldn't contact me probably tried I guess but never fixed it and I didn't bother because it was crapp anyway (Aside the useful C.V's they gave me which were actually a help) but beyond that utter crapp.

 

 

Do they ask for a post work programme report etc? I'm kind of worried too they'd try sanction me if I haven't been in ages saying I didn't attend the work programme enough or something like that blah blah but truth is work programme when I did go really did not help at all. But I don't want to be sanctioned in case I don't secure this part time work but I'm hoping I do, I'm really feeling excited about it but of course risk is I end up sanctioned and in the deep end right before I get myself some work.

 

 

Any info on this post work programme stuff would be appreciated!

[antone]

No experience of post-WP, though I know there are other posters who have been through it. But you can't be sanctioned for not attending WP appointments unless you are sent (through the post, not email or text) or handed a Mandatory Activity Notice for each and every appointment they wish you to attend.

[bcham]

your adviser on the wp will sit with you by the computer summing the days you attended and the days you had off and how well your job search went, how many interviews you have had, then they give you a mark, my adviser said i had done very well,but i never missed an attendance then they pass the information on to the job center.

then its menial courses from then on, i am on a course now wich i have already completed the course 4 months ago and passed,but the adviser says i still have to do it again so i will be getting city and guilds level 1 back to work certificate again ?

[Jmulv]

your adviser on the wp will sit with you by the computer summing the days you attended and the days you had off and how well your job search went, how many interviews you have had, then they give you a mark, my adviser said i had done very well,but i never missed an attendance then they pass the information on to the job center.

then its menial courses from then on, i am on a course now wich i have already completed the course 4 months ago and passed,but the adviser says i still have to do it again so i will be getting city and guilds level 1 back to work certificate again ?

 

 

Interesting

 

 

I haven't heard from my advisor in ages anyway. So I've no idea what will happen or how it'll work. My last apt was like last year in march or April something like that.

 

 

Either way I'm still crossing my fingers for part time work then i'll just get off JSA have to top up my earnings with rent benefit but right now it's better than nothing.

[Mr.P]

I haven't heard from my advisor in ages anyway. So I've no idea what will happen or how it'll work. My last apt was like last year in march or April something like that.

 

You should have a final meeting with your provider where they get the opportunity to generate an "exit report" and then return to the JCP for "intensive support" - The JCP programme appears to vary from one area to another and also seems to depend on the whims of the advisers involved.

 

If you are lucky, your WP provider will have forgotten about you and fail to provide the final meeting - You then have the opportunity to drop them right in it and insist on a copy of the exit report.

 

Update: From April 2014, the Community Work Placements programme will kick in. This is one of three options available to the JCP, although no selection criteria is currently available. Once again, this is contracted out to external providers on a "payment by results" basis.... Unfortunately for claimants, the providers contracted for this are the same ineffectual bunch of [edited] delivering the Work Programme.

 

What is the Community Work Placement ?

Commonly known as workfare - The placements should be predominately with voluntary organisations, but it is likely that shelf stacking in a store will play a significant role.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Mr.P

[Minibits]

What is the Community Work Placement ?

Commonly known as workfare - The placements should be predominately with voluntary organisations, but it is likely that shelf stacking in a store will play a significant role.

 

Reminds me of one of Kevin Bridges' observations of workfare where he said that "...stacking shelves at Poundland ......where the items you stack are worth more than you.", or words to that effect!

[Beatrice Bee]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48801[/ATTACH]

[Beatrice Bee]

Change of address is a change in circumstances: you have to let JCP and its contractors know immediately. If you told them over the phone then you done it.

To avoid the 30 hour per week shelf stacking from April 2014 onwards, you need to go into volunteer or part-time employment mode ASAP.

There is a form to fill in. You attach evidence and give it to your JCP adviser ASAP, possibly before you begin volunteering. Recent work experience [paid or unpaid] may save Work Programme leavers from MIR and community work placements. At your first post Work Programme interview at JCP say that you doing voluntary work and that your adviser logged it on the system. It is a 40 minute interview to decide which support group they put you into so you need to prove that you do not have multiple barriers to finding work. You need to prove that you are able to seek out and retain employment [paid or voluntary].

 

30 hrs pw unpaid shelf stacking or litter picking for 26 weeks to get your JSA and HB is not even funny so why not do a few hours pw voluntary work on your own account to prevent it? Email charities and companies that you would like to volunteer to get some recent work experience and possibly a reference. And the reason why you want to work for them. Eg if it is a homelessness charity, you are passionate about eradicating homelessness and why.

 

I made a FOI request a couple of weeks ago. DWP is unwilling to give info about the Help to Work Scheme as it is still under development [FOI response].

About PWPS they sent me the above .pdf info so it's up to date.

[Jmulv]

Thanks Beatrice for the advice,

 

 

Yes I've read about changes coming in april trying to make you work 30hrs per week for JSA or something is there any info when this definitely is coming in?

 

 

I'm thinking if I at least get a part time job that pays at least JSA anywhere doing anything I can just claim housing benefit and get off JSA for the time being?

 

 

I can probably volunteer at Oxfam down the road they have a shop I could ask them for a shift or 2 and do that.

[Mr.P]

I'm thinking if I at least get a part time job that pays at least JSA anywhere doing anything I can just claim housing benefit and get off JSA for the time being?

 

If you can find a p/t job that pays £71 p/w, you'd lose entitlement to JSA, but you'd still be able to claim HB/CT.

 

I'm on a p/t job, and the basic pay is way less than JSA, but overtime usually takes me well above - Still get some CT relief. Really can't be asked to mess with the JCP anymore, and now that I am working, it should be easier to step in to another job if I need to.

[Jmulv]

I'm aware there is a mega thread on this but it's quite diluted and filled with general questions a lot of which are not related to PWP at all.

 

So thought I'd create a new thread to try and concentrate the information and compile the experiences of people who have had their first appointment on it or are currently further on down the line with PWP. Basically what you've experienced and what you are now expected to do/what they are doing at the moment on PWP. I basically just want to get a feel for what happens on PWP as a whole and how things change over time and I think this thread could help a lot of confused people (As I was the other week) to find concentrated information about PWP and what to expect. I also hope people can learn about it to ensure they are doing everything correctly to avoid a sanction because I feel like there are a lot of little pitfalls with PWP at least from what i've seen so far and if you are not careful you get slapped with a sanction even though you may be doing all that you can.

 

Not sure if this thread will take off but I think it'll be helpful to everyone if we all try to contribute a little bit of our experiences / stories so i'll start and try and keep it only about PWP. Maybe some people who have been on PWP longer can also advise us how things can get tougher/different, how they try to catch you out (From my experiences i've got the feeling some advisors seem to do this, they actually look for underhanded ways to sanction you but not all do)

 

I had my first PWP interview today, it was ok just asked me general questions about why I thought I wasn't finding a job and looked at my skills, the advisor wasn't pushy, rude or anything like that thankfully she was pretty neutral toward me. She just said I need to take a more active stance in job searching rather than a passive one (That confused me because sending out C.Vs etc is a active stance?) but she said stuff like phoning employers, all i've found from doing that is most employers don't care and don't have the time to deal with people phoning in.

 

I got given a new claimant commitment to sign the points I have to adhere too, the main ones at least are.

 

I will use jobsites and employer websites to find and apply for jobs i can do. (Daily)

I will log into my universal jobmatch account to find and apply for jobs I can do. (Daily)

I will contact employers directly to ask about jobs / apply for them (weekly)

I will ask family and friends etc about jobs (Weekly)

I will respond promptly to contacts and notifications from employers etc (Daily).

I will register and maintain contact with recruitment agencies (ongoing).

 

So that's my new claimant commitment, thankfully it doesn't seem to be as random and as many hoops as other people seem to face like look for work 4hrs. a day, go into town and look at job boards or some crap like that.

 

However the UJ point i am concerned about I do not like UJ and it's crapp when I used to use it all jobs were just spam etc. I realise if you don't follow these points you can be sanctioned so it's best to do them all. I generally for the most part am and I usually bring in printouts of jobs I've applied for.

 

But the with relation to UJ how do I proceed with that? do I check website without logging in so they can't track me and maybe apply for odd job? I heard idea from someone who said if they keep pushing you just say website doesn't work, disable cookies try log on and print off the error and show the advisor. Sounds like a plan if they really try to stop me using better websites. She didn't really push UJ and didn't seem to care about it just said oh it's easier etc. (UJ advice courtesy of a poster here called Mr. P)

 

Also the recruitment agencies one how do I proceed with that?

 

I also have to fill in a "My work plan" booklet has 2 sections to fill in between interviews it just has 2 boxes of "I will (What i'm going to do / how / when / where and What I did and what was the result?

 

How should I go about filling in these parts? She also said write how long it took you, she sort of mentioned it as an offhand comment to do that.

 

She also mentioned me looking into volunteer work, I don't want to do something completely arbitrary i'd like to spend a bit of time maybe doing something that has a little substance if I am pushed into doing this at least anyone else volunteer? do they push you quite hard into doing it?

 

Thanks for advice,

 

Hopefully others share and we can exchange advice.

[Chester6]

Default Re: work programme after 2 years

Unfortunately PWP tends to rationalise rudeness and bullying as acceptable and even when you show them you've done as agreed they try to treat you like dirt and they will try to force you to allow UJM access. They won probably send you on a fortnight course to do with cvs, interviews and money because someone you don't know doesn't know how to manage money

They may try to berate you over your spending habits and appearance and try to lie that being unemployed is your fault

 

Unfortunately PWP tends to rationalise rudeness and bullying as acceptable and even when you show them you've done as agreed they try to treat you like dirt and they will try to force you to allow UJM access. They won probably send you on a fortnight course to do with cvs, interviews and money because someone you don't know doesn't know how to manage money

They may try to berate you over your spending habits and appearance and try to lie that being unemployed is your fault

 

 

there is more but I'll elaborate later

[citizenB]

 

They may try to berate you over your spending habits and appearance and try to lie that being unemployed is your fault

 

I cant see that your spending habits are any of their business ! And if the message hasnt yet got home to them, that there simply are not enough jobs for those people applying for them - that is very worrying indeed.

 

I think you do need to put on your log that you are spending X amount of time completing their admin requirements and X amount of time spent travelling to and from any place that is relevant to your Job seeking.

[Chester6]

I cant see that your spending habits are any of their business ! And if the message hasnt yet got home to them, that there simply are not enough jobs for those people applying for them - that is very worrying indeed.

 

I think you do need to put on your log that you are spending X amount of time completing their admin requirements and X amount of time spent travelling to and from any place that is relevant to your Job seeking.

 

Luckily - the guy was talking to me, they were 2 or so meters away and I over heard it all

I thnk the message this one has is that the jobcentre gves you marvellous opportunities like WP, NEW DEAL etc and it's your fault if you don't succees

 

I think their rationale for the money is they pay you to jobseek - as my one whined at me whilst throwing her toys out of the pram and she must be mid 30s to 40

[jasta11]

I'm still technically on the PWP - even though it's now been more than 6 months. They admit they haven't a clue what to do next so they're just leaving things the same. No big deal in my case as I was fortunate enough to get a really decent advisor who could see I needed no extra help so didn't try to push me onto useless courses.

 

My JS Agreement was increased from 3 jobs a week to a whopping 5 (got off lightly there, methinks) and the usual 'check UJ a few times every week' thrown in too. Only see my advisor once a month for a very brief chat so in all honesty I can't complain about anything. Just a shame I can't see this advisor on my normal signing days too.

 

The whole PWP seems very broad though; I've read of people being given a horrendous amount of extra stuff to do. As I've said before, if you can show them you're already well organised and anticipate their questions - and have the answers ready - it needn't be too bad. You need to convince them why you don't need to do this or that and hope the advisor is reasonable about it.

[Chester6]

I think you struck lucky as how they proceed varies from one to another

[jasta11]

I think you struck lucky as how they proceed varies from one to another

 

Yes, it's tricky to know exactly what attitude to take at that first PWP meeting - if you say 'Oh, the 2 year WP didn't help me at all' then they may want you to go on more courses which will help you. On the other hand, if you said 'Oh, the WP really helped me a lot' they might send you on more courses because they think it's working!

 

Tread carefully!

 

The advisor definitely is a big part of it; a fair one will treat you realistically, but if you get a 'jobsworth' - perhaps under pressure from the boss - then expect anything.

[Shendor]

I was on the two year work programme through Inge(ni)us b***ards. I finished last October and since then the JCP doesn't seem to know what to do with me (for which I am actually very grateful) I sign on once every two weeks and this consists of a different advisor each time, who looks at my donald duck job applications - literally sometimes I'll write [email protected] - position applied for Chicken sexer) and they sign me. Done and dusted in under two minutes. I don't mean to sound glib, but I'm SO grateful after going through the mincer at Ingeus that the JCP seem to have given up on me as a lost project so far. I'm left free to apply for REAL jobs rather than jump through all the training hoops.

The whole system seems rotten from the top down to me. I don't even blame the depressed JCP drones or the stressed and bitter advisors at Ingeus who go through the motions. It's all about targets and getting money for the top of the pyramid, whilst those at the bottom on the front line are not really doing any better than the clients (me) that they see.

What I find truly incredible is that to get my £70pw pittance JSA whilst at Ingeus I had to work harder to keep one step ahead of them and show I was fulfilling their arbitrary mandates than I ever did when I was in full-time employment on £450 a week!

Edited March 21, 2014 by honeybee13

[Chester6]

Lucky - many go through them with a fine tooth comb, I have been warned there's a possibility of sanctions for not dating every row or writing stuff that was accepted downstairs

[Shendor]

Lucky - many go through them with a fine tooth comb, I have been warned there's a possibility of sanctions for not dating every row or writing stuff that was accepted downstairs

 

Totally agree. I don't take it for granted at all. I'm in London though where bewillderbeast roam freely, so they have easier fish to fry to hit their sanctions targets, so seem to leave me pretty much alone. (So far)

Edited March 21, 2014 by Shendor

[Jmulv]

Interesting good to hear feedback about PWP,

 

Whilst I realise it seems to vary greatly it's good to see what people have ACTUALLY been experiencing. I'll of course keep this thread updated as I move along with PWP.

 

I have my next advisor meeting on Tuesday, no idea what for next. Then apparently i'll be assigned to a proper PWP advisor and still have to continue signing on. Hopefully it won't be every week.... and yes that is my worry the fine tooth combing of everything I do. I apply for jobs what more can I do? i've no doubt they will try throw out sanctions for not checking UJ or something silly and if you don't write down hours or detail it enough.

 

That's why I made this thread so people can learn what to watch out for. But so far you guys are luckily not getting a major grilling.

[jasta11]

Lucky - many go through them with a fine tooth comb, I have been warned there's a possibility of sanctions for not dating every row or writing stuff that was accepted downstairs

 

This is what annoys me constantly - every advisor should be singing off the same hymn sheet but we all know they aren't. What's perfectly acceptable to one is not what is acceptable to another.

 

This nit-picking by them is why I use Reed and CV-Library - not so much because they're any good but simply because every job you apply for is listed and dated and a print-out of the 'My Applications' section contains all the hard evidence the JC need. Make it a point to always click on a couple of vacancies every day - including weekends - from both sites and at the end of the fortnight you have at least 50 jobs applications to show them, all nicely detailed and dated.

 

It's the quantity they're after, not the quality - they usually just glance at them. If I'm in a bad mood I make them sign and date every sheet as being acceptable

 

I'm actually thinking of adding a line to every page of evidence I submit saying something like 'I hereby certify that the Jobseekers Agreement requirements have been met for this period *signed & dated by advisor*.'

[Chester6]

It's normally every week but if they are busy it'll be either fortnightly or you just sign on - whichever comes first