Interview under caution

[Drivingmemad]

Hi, I received a letter from HB/CTB to say I had to attend an interview under caution. I rang and spoke to the person who sent the letter and he said it is because they think I have someone living with me. So here it is, my ex partner, also my best friend (we have known each other for 15 years) we are very close I won't deny it and I love him to pieces but we are not in love if you see my meaning. We have children together, he is here every day almost, stays over a lot (never in the same bed) always in the boys bottom bunk, more so when I am down (suffer from depression) to do things with the kids , get youngest dressed etc. he doesn't work or claim benefits, he gets money from family, and doesn't give me anything towards the children or household bills, he doesn't have clothes here, or have his washing done here, I don't cook for him. He is here for his children and although he can't give any money he supports them emotionally which is fantastic for them. I have worked all my life and only been claiming benefit for 6 months (claimed HB/CTB before) but not income support until 6 months ago. He has some mail coming here such as his bank statements and his driving licence which I needed the bank statements for proof for legal aid as I had transferred some money int his bank previously when I lost my debit card and they asked me why and to show proof which I did. I should also mention that he is on trial and is bailed to my address no conditions to stay here or anything but they do come and check on him. We share a car which is in my name but he legally owns it and we are insured on the same policy.

 

Anyway back to my original post I have had the letter for the interview, we don't live as a couple, we don't have a sexual relationship, he doesn't live here but he stays more than he probably should. Reading my own post it looks bad but I honestly didn't think I had done anything wrong, as i am single and my things in my home are mine and my bills are paid by me. What do i do? I have no intention of lying as clearly I didn't think i was wrong, I have never ever done anything wrong or committed fraud but I am worried about how it looks on paper. Do I need to get legal advice? Should i just go my own and just tell them the above? Will they make it look terrible and be really awful to me?

 

I have just got my daughter into nursery (starts next week) and I have been applying for jobs for the last few months as it was always my plan to go full time when my youngest starts nursery, which will be full time employment and I will not need to claim then as hopefully I will be on my feet.

 

Help please!

 

Thank you.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Drivingmemad, and welcome to CAG!

 

When is the interview?

 

The good thing is that the bills are paid by you, but there are obviously a large number of links to your address. Where does he actually live? From their point of view it does look as though he's probably living with you on a regular basis. Obviously though the best thing is to continue to be completely honest.

 

There are a number of similar threads here, and I'll alert some of the girls to your thread.

 

DD

[Drivingmemad]

Thank you so much for your reply, he lived with his parents upto 2010 but then they disowned him so now stays with me/his girlfriend/his sister/brother wherever he can. Interview is next week but the guy is ringing me monday to check if I want to get legal advice so the interview can be rearranged if needed, he did say legal advice wasn't really necessary but I will probably start blubbering under pressure so I think I might get some advice anyway. I haven't done anything wrong in my life! Well nothing illegal lol. I certainly would never have done this on purpose. This has happened because he has received a fine from the council for a car which was not registered to him/me but was parked outside my house, the police took note of this vehicles reg at the time and when a new owner got the car he got parking fines etc from the council, they contacted the police as the registered owner didn't own the vehicle and they have said the car belonged to my ex and told the council to send fines to my address!

 

So stressed! Xx

[Desperate Daniella]

It's a very stressful situation!

 

You may need to get legal advice; let's see what other advice you are given here, and that may not come until tomorrow.

 

You absolutely must not allow him to use your address for anything if you intend to claim benefits. I know that is very difficult as you clearly love him. Maybe another member of his family could permit their address to be used by him.

 

You have only been claiming income support for six months, so at the very worst they'll ask you to pay it back and you'll be able to do that at a reasonable rate. That is the worst case scenario. Really you shouldn't have to pay it back because he's not supporting you.

 

It's very clear from the threads here that the people who investigate these situations are very well aware that exes can come and go and, as you say, the bills are all in your name.

 

Hopefully you can get a job really soon, and then you can come off the benefits and it won't matter what you do.

 

DDxx

[Drivingmemad]

Hi thanks again, I have been claiming income support for 6 months but this letter is from the local council regarding HB/CTB is it all the same department? The guy said my claim hasn't been suspended and is still running. I do love him but to be fair we are more like brother and sister nowadays which is good for the kids and something I am grateful for as I don't have much support other than my dad, my brother died 7 years ago and my mum and me are chalk and cheese so it's good for us all to have some support. We could never live together as there is no attraction between us yet we still argue like mad when under the same roof for too long. I am guessing it will all change if he decides to get a place with his girlfriend but she's not a big fan of the kids so I don't know if that will happen. I have talked to him about sorting his head out and getting somewhere of his own but he hates being alone so who knows! He has been here today but left when kids went to bed at 8 so lovely peace and quiet for me lol sorry for the info overload probably tmi!

[Desperate Daniella]

Sorry, when I referred to benefits I meant CTB/HB and income support and of course you may be entitled to the first two even if you are working.

 

The fact that they haven't suspended the HB/CTB is a good sign.

 

Please don't worry about tmi - you can say what you like here and scream and shout if you want to and we'll always listen and help where we can.

 

Some of the girls know a lot more than I do, and I'm sure they'll give good advice.

 

The problem we have today is that everyone swaps information and we don't know who says what to whom! Who would have thought the car could cause so much trouble?

[jadeybags]

His family support him but his mum dissowned him? It's likely that DWP with be there too & they'll conduct a joint interview.

If he's there most the time, not registered living anywhere else, his mail goes to your address, joint bank account, car, insurance, it sounds like you'll be needing to convince them rather than be able to prove it unfortunately by the sounds of it tbh. It sounds like he's taking major liberties to me, doesn't pay for his children but doesn't mind using your home & letting you take the grief from benefit agencies.

I'd get his name off of everything if it was me. Although it may be too late in the LA & DWP's eyes.

[EagerElephant]

The bad news is that everything you have said above points to the fact you are living together - why are you not a couple? It seems you do everything couples do except the sex and HB/CTB don't care about that bit.

What does his girlfriend think of him coming to yours so much?

 

The good news is that if he does not have a job or claim benefits then he has no income of his own therefore if they added him to your claim your applicable amount would increase and you would get more HB/CTB if you weren't already getting the full amount (which you do as you are on IS)

 

It is very unusual for HB/CTB to call you in for an interview without also having DWP there for the IS.

As you know IS is a passported benefit which gets you the entitlement to HB/CTB so the council cannot remove your HB/CTB unless your IS changes hence the usual joint interviews.

 

The problem might come with IS as you are only getting that for being a single parent which they might decide you are not and if you are a couple then you would have been expected to claim JSA.

So you might get an overpayment of IS but no overpayment of HB/CTB as without IS your only income would have been child benefit and tax credits.

 

Sorry if I am over complicating things here.

[Desperate Daniella]

Do you two think Drivingmemad should get a solicitor to accompany her to the interview?

[EagerElephant]

Not sure what the solicitor can do for her to be honest?

 

Lat year legal aid only covered the initial interview and any advice needed if you were prosecuted. The rules have changed around legal aid and I am not sure if you can still get it for this sort of thing.

 

The council have probably been watching the house and have loads of evidence so best not to lie otherwise they won't believe anything they are told.

 

I appreciate that drivingmemad (DMM) is worried about breaking down but they are used to it - a solicitor cannot say anything that DMM can't.

 

I would go in with an open mind and see what they have on me first.

 

When they realise he has no money they won't be interested because they are targeted on prosecutions etc and as I said above it is highly unlikely there will be an Overpayment so they will spend as little time on it after the interview as possible when it won't give them the outcome they want!

[foolmum]

hi DMM

 

sorry i cannot offer you advice but i can offer support...i understand the desparation....the guys on this site are fab and offer great advice..

gosh yours is a complex one..as you have only been claiming for six months they must take into account that swapping things over is not the first thing you think of when separating....children..finances and emotional distress are your first....

 

i wish you all the luck and any time you want to vent some anger we are here.xxx

[jabba jones]

He is here for his children and although he can't give any money he supports them emotionally which is fantastic for them.

 

That's good of him:whoo:

 

Anyway as EagerElephant has already said, from a DWP point of view I think you are living together but his lack of earnings may get you off the hook.

 

You need to take a list of the people who give him money & the other addresses he stays at. The investigators will probably want to check all this out after the IUC.

Edited April 10, 2013 by jabba jones

[BanditQueen]

Have I missed something, but what is the problem if he does not work or claim benefits and has not got any income that can affect your claim for benefits? If they assume that he is paying maintenance for the children, which I think may be their problem, or that he has an income, surely you are able to show that he does not and is not supporting you? When there are kids involved they seem to assume that the father or partner is supporting or should be supporting them, that is the first thing to clear up, what his financial status is. If he has his own address, does he have anything that can show that he lives with parents or at another address: that may be something he can get to prove that you are not living as a couple. If you are now separated, then I would assume that the stupid council officials and the DWP would still think it right that your partner as the father of the kids comes around to visit with them and has access to visit them. I would think he should be commended not punished for doing so: the DWP should pin a meddle on him for helping the way that he does. The world is upside down and the rules about partners are old fashioned rubbish! Having said that if he does not have any income, I really do not know what their problem is. It sounds as if they are acting on assumptions that can be dis-proven and not on the facts.

 

You really need to get to a welfare solicitor or specialist who knows the rules on this. To answer should you just go down and tell them everything and go alone: NO! You do not have to tell them anything and you do not have to answer any questions. Take someone with you and do not go until you have legal assistance with you. Do not answer anything until you know exactly what they have on you and what they are actually asking you, which they will not tell you until you go to the interview. Make sure you make notes and have some statements ready, but do not answer anything you do not want to; make them prove it. Take your legal person with you and if you want a break to consult at any time stop the interview. If you want to leave at any time, stop the interview. If you can get hold of anything that will support your claim then also do that, but do not just hand it over; do it through your representative. And if the date they want you to come is not convenient change it. Hope you find out some help and get them to change their minds. Good luck.

[abc123def]

Unfortunately from a DWP and LA point of view, you are living together as a couple. As someone said above, they don't care about the sex bit. So there will be an overpayment to you of benefit which they will want to arrange to be paid back, they don't take into account what you might have received had you claimed differently. They won't be too interested in the fact that the partner is not earning, as the claimant is the one who is commiting fraud by either incorrectly claiming or not notifying of a change of circumstances. Even if she could have been on a different benefit.

 

Your choices are, to stop him staying over and to ask him to take the children out for his access visits or to stay wherever he is living or to let him move in and change your claim to a couple claim. If choosing him to move out and live elsewhere and have his child access elsewhere, also get all things registered for him at your address changed and get his mail sent elsewhere too. And then work on paying back what is owed to date. As you have MH issues, this will go in your favour and if severe enough even if the overpayment is huge they usually avoid court and will just accept affordable amounts towards returning the overpayment.

[EagerElephant]

Just to clarify that any Overpayment of HB/CTB has to be relooked at using underlying entitlement rules which means they input the new circumstances (ie possible partner) and recalculate so DMM will not be out of pocket if as she says the father of her children does not have an income. (This is is the case in all cases including fraud)

 

Tax Credits is slightly different - they call their procedure notional offset but do not apply this to cases of deliberate error/fraud.

 

Personally I think that people turning up with solicitors/legal representation look guilty straight away - I have never known anyone turn up with a solicitor that has then not been committing fraud.

If DMM takes anyone then a friend would do just as a witness to what has been said.

[id6052]

From the information posted in original post, there appears to be another danger that posters may not have picked up on.

 

If the LA accept that OP and ex-partner are no longer in a relationship, there is a possibility that ex-partner could be treated as a non-dependant which could potentially result in greater HB/CTB overpayments than if they were a couple. Though this would depend upon whether you and ex-partner are married.

 

Personally, I would suggest getting professional advice from the CAB, local community law centre, welfare rights or a solicitor who specialises in social security cases.

[honeybee13]

Hello there. I was about to say what id6052 did, I think the CAB would be a good starting point and they will have contacts or details of local firms, Welfare Rights etc.

 

They have seen this all before and won't judge you.

 

My best HB

[jadeybags]

The only benefit really in taking a brief is they will disclose to the brief the reason for the IUC before you even set foot in the office yourself. But from what I gather you already know the reason?

You can however take someone along with you, as long as they aren't involved in the reason you are there. They wont be able to speak for you either (although they may end up talking about football in the end, long story lol)

The main reasons for the IUC are to show you your application form & ask if it's you that filled it in & signed it, ask if you understood the form, let you know any problems they have come up with & to listen to your side, then use all that in court if it ever ended up that far.

As IUC's are done for so many different reasons, it's hard to advise anyone really what will happen at them & what you should do. But there's not really much point in someone saying 'no comment' denying everything etc, if they are guilty, because that's probably the worst thing that would go against them in court, & that tape would be used in court. Better off being honest, they are pretty cluey people these investigators & half the time can see if someone is being genuine. Although it isn't down to them the outcome, they will have some input.

It's not common for them to prosecute someone that has an over payment less than at least a grand though. But that'll vary between LA's. Quite often that info is available on line. Too much cost to the public purse prosecuting for low amounts.

[Drivingmemad]

Hi, thank you all for your replies. It's nice to have some support. I have read them all but will probably need to post a few times with questions so pleas bear with me.

 

I would just like to point out we don't have a joint bank account, he has his bank statements sent here because I needed them and when his parents disowned him he had no proper address so I said he can use mine. Also we are not together because there is nothing between us and because we have a diificult past/relationship on that side of things but friends does us well. Also we were never married if that helps?

 

I never meant to intentionally defraud anyone! I have been claiming for 6 months IS but HB/CTB for a while as I worked part time prior to being off work. I have applied for 4 jobs in the last 4 weeks so hopefully I will get one of those (all full time) and I can get away from this minefield!

 

Tbh I need his support, I would rather have his support than claim any benefits as long as I can feed my children money doesn't matter to me. I have got a solicitor now which will attend interview with me, so I feel better about that as I can get myself into quite a state, admittedly I am more fragile than I would like to be. His girlfriend hates him being here, and hates us, but they haven't been together long so it's not really her choice and certainly nothing to do with me. I would love for him to live here full time as friends. I could use the support and help with the kids would be amazing there are 4 of them under 10!

 

After all of this I suppose They will find me guilty because we are together a lot but as we are friends and not a couple and he doesn't actually live here and really is here for the kids and not me but does emotionally support me I didn't honestly thnk anything of it. I am a single parent. My bills are in my name all of them, I pay them, I pay for the shopping etc, petrol.

 

Shall I just say all of the above at the interview? I don't want to lie but I also do not want to get myself in more trouble?

 

Thanks again everyone and I am sorry it is such a weird one!

Xx

[Drivingmemad]

Also what is the worst that can happen because I would prefer a worst case scenario then anything good that happens is a bonus. Xx

[NoworNever]

"Also what is the worst that can happen because I would prefer a worst case scenario then anything good that happens is a bonus."You asked.... the worse case scenario is 7 years imprisonment.

[Drivingmemad]

Yep thanks for that

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi DMM,

 

The worst thing will be that you have to pay the money back. As jadeybags says above, they don't want to waste money on prosecutions in cases like this, and you can confirm this by looking at the website. They go after people who are seriously cheating the system, not people like you.

 

You are not guilty of anything. If you need your ex there to help you with four young children that is totally believable. Clearly he loves his children.

 

Just tell the truth at the interview and be open. Nothing you have said here would get you into trouble. Take all the evidence with you - bills, bank statements, etc.

 

As far as CTB is concerned I think an element of that will be based on your 25% single person discount, so if he was living there, even as a friend, you would not be entitled to that regardless of whether he was paying you anything or not.

 

Ask as much as you like. We'll all try to help you.

 

DDxx

[Desperate Daniella]

"Also what is the worst that can happen because I would prefer a worst case scenario then anything good that happens is a bonus."You asked.... the worse case scenario is 7 years imprisonment.

 

Yes, this is the worse case scenario in very bad cases. This is NOT going to happen to you.

[Drivingmemad]

Thank you DD, I will tell them all I have told you lot. I am just such a worrier. Xx