Inside a DCA!

[PriorityOne]

 

Tomorrow I will return with:

 

'Information you should NEVER tell a DCA.'

 

Some of it is obvious, but the smallest 'slip' can mean the difference between them pursuing a CCJ or giving you a £0 balance write-off :grin: .

 

The main one that has worked a treat so far is never confirming that I own property.... anything in writing only refers to "housing costs". Never confirming that I work and not stipulating that tax credits are linked to earned income instead of being Benefits received from the DWP.

[tiglet]

In fact - just don't tell them anything: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/130663-robinson-way-yet-again-10.html#post1419876

[PriorityOne]

In fact - just don't tell them anything: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/130663-robinson-way-yet-again-10.html#post1419876

 

 

External DCAs don't get info. that hasn't already been provided by the OC unless you provide it, as already said. Internal DCAs are a slightly different ball game though.... because you know the debt hasn't been sold and therefore, there is still the need to box clever to try and avoid legal action and a CCJ.

 

Even when an OC has "homeowner" on their paperwork, they will usually (but not always) be reluctant to start court action if a person is on means-tested Benefits.... which leaves the option of collecting token payments for years (which they hate)... or selling it on.

 

[ginnever]

Thanks.

 

Can I respond to this in a PM, mainly because I need to think of a good response. I'll do this Thursday morning if that's OK ginnever.

 

Thank you that is kind of you.

 

Don;t know if you will have time to look over the post that I started Re Cohen & my property if you can make end or tale of that

[onthebrink]

Hi onthebrink, I have a question for you, if you don't mind answering.

 

I have 2 debts with the same OC that were assigned to a DCA 2 years ago. I CCAd the DCA who furnished me with all the information along with statements from the OC showing both debts were written off when they were assigned to the DCA.

 

But, the DCA has now given up and referred my accounts back to the OC, can they still chase me for written off debts?

 

Many thanks.

 

In short yes.

 

There are two types of debt write-off.

 

The first is purely an accounting treatment. Under the International Financial Standards all businesses (operating over a certain turnover) are required to show a 'true and fair' view of their financial position at the year end.

 

As part of that financial accounting requirement all debts, which sit on the companies balance sheet as an asset (just like 'cash at the bank' is an asset) and thus make the company look financially more stable than they may actually be!, these debts 'under default' MUST go onto the companies aged debtor list, and under the rules these debts must be 'written-off the accounts' on a 'timely basis', this reduces the amount of 'assets' the company has and thus provides investors with a 'truer' picture of their financial picture.

 

Still with me 8) .

 

So far this type of 'write off' has not changed YOUR position. That happens when:

 

the other type of 'write off' is when the OC has done the above but then makes the decision to actually write-off the debt. They will do this by formally updating you CRA file with a £0 balance but (normally) with no narrative like 'settled in full' or 'partially settled'.

 

What you saw in your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) was the OC doing the first type of write-off. Writing it out of their accounts.

 

***I must stress that when the OC completes the first type of write-off they ARE NOT admitting the debt is going to be written off, nor are they going to stop pursuing the debt. It is only done as an ACCOUNTING TREATMENT.

 

What can happen at this stage of the process is the debt is passed around the DCAs to attempt recovery or it is sold to a DCA at a significant reduction. The OC has passed the debt on and you are likely to be chased by the DCA.

 

I hope this makes sense.

[onthebrink]

Thank you that is kind of you.

 

Don;t know if you will have time to look over the post that I started Re Cohen & my property if you can make end or tale of that

 

I will do that tomorrow, but can you pop a link up so we can all have a read.

 

Cheers

[ananya]

In short yes.

 

There are two types of debt write-off.

 

The first is purely an accounting treatment. Under the International Financial Standards all businesses (operating over a certain turnover) are required to show a 'true and fair' view of their financial position at the year end.

 

As part of that financial accounting requirement all debts, which sit on the companies balance sheet as an asset (just like 'cash at the bank' is an asset) and thus make the company look financially more stable than they may actually be!, these debts 'under default' MUST go onto the companies aged debtor list, and under the rules these debts must be 'written-off the accounts' on a 'timely basis', this reduces the amount of 'assets' the company has and thus provides investors with a 'truer' picture of their financial picture.

 

Still with me 8) .

 

So far this type of 'write off' has not changed YOUR position. That happens when:

 

the other type of 'write off' is when the OC has done the above but then makes the decision to actually write-off the debt. They will do this by formally updating you CRA file with a £0 balance but (normally) with no narrative like 'settled in full' or 'partially settled'.

 

What you saw in your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) was the OC doing the first type of write-off. Writing it out of their accounts.

 

***I must stress that when the OC completes the first type of write-off they ARE NOT admitting the debt is going to be written off, nor are they going to stop pursuing the debt. It is only done as an ACCOUNTING TREATMENT.

 

What can happen at this stage of the process is the debt is passed around the DCAs to attempt recovery or it is sold to a DCA at a significant reduction. The OC has passed the debt on and you are likely to be chased by the DCA.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

Yes, it did and thank you very much for explaining it to me

[Thailand]

Cheers for all this top info OTB, I'm going to read the lot over and over until it sinks in!

[vengeancedemon]

Absolutely amazing and tremendous revelations, I do hope your anonimity is well covered

Grand Job, and many thanks

[onthebrink]

Here's one for you, onthebrink;

 

What changes have been made to DCA's internal procedures now they are covered by the Financial Ombudsman Service? I've made formal complaints about harrassment over unenforceable debts and had a response saying they've passed the account back to the OC - is this usual practise, so you could say making a formal complaint is the best way to "manage" DCA contact? (This one was Lewis Debt Recovery, FYI)

 

 

I have highlighted a key point in that question.

 

What has actually happened is the DCAs formal internal complaints procedure has kicked in, because you have stated that the account is in formal dispute (unenforceable) with the OC, and the DCA should not be pursuing the debt, and so this is 'harassment'.

 

The DCA internal procedure would first put your account on hold. The OC would be asked to confirm the dispute you claim. If they do, the account is passed back to the OC. On this occassion, in my view, the DCA has acted correctly, although I'm sure it took a couple of letters.

 

Regarding the FoS: they can act as a check and balance on a DCA and can be used to your advantage. But, you do need to press home you point with them and have exhausted the DCAs/OC formal complaints procedure before they will do anything of help (mostly).

[ginnever]

I will do that tomorrow, but can you pop a link up so we can all have a read.

 

Cheers

 

Here you are hope it works:

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/126336-cohen-my-property.html

 

thanks

[master woody]

I must say this is the best thread i've read CAG and i must on read hundreds...

 

[SteveH2508]

Sir

You are a scholar and a gentleman who has restored a great deal of my faith in the human race. If ever you are in the Chelsea area, there is a pint (or several) of Young's finest nut brown brew waiting for you!

[Tila]

Tnx onthebrink for ur advise.... Absolutely fantastic stuff. Cant wait for tommorrow!

[onthebrink]

What do you make of this as I feel they have failed to supply the information requested under CPR

 

I requested information under the CPR rules & today I have received a this response from CL saying-

 

We have been in contact with our solicitors HC who have advised that we are not obligded to provide this information and would advise that the particulars of claim detailed om the cc form should be sufficent to allow you to respond accordingly.

 

Having said that we have been in contact with opur predecessors GE money & have been able to obtain certain information which is enclosed herewith.

 

They have sent a copy of the credit agreement CC act 1974 page 1 of 3

Which is signed by me, however no date against my signature,

A signature for GE money which you can't tell whose signed and again no date.

 

A copy of the deed of assignment 5 pages dated on the front the 16th May 2007 a scribbled signature on the back. This is the first time I have ever seen one of these...

Also a set of copy statements ranging from Mar 02 to May 07 however not complete as there are some statements missing...

 

How would you proceed from here as CL have not complied fully with my request under CPR?

 

I am due in court on the 31.03.08

 

thanks

 

I've now had the chance to look at this in detail and feel the point I need to make is relevant to a lot of people.

 

I agree that they have not fulfilled your original request but they have provided all the information they hold on file. The comment 'our legal advisors say we do not need to comply' is a standard response, if this was true it would be a letter from their solicitors you would be reading!

 

What you need to do now is write a letter explaining that your orginal request has not ben fully satisfied. Detail what you think is missing. Notify them that the missing documents will be pointed out to the court. Reiterate the court date. Give them 14 days to provide the missing information. Send recorded delivery.

 

On the letter, on the line below the Dear sir/madam write in a font that is bigger then all other fonts and in bold:

'DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER - LITIGATION ADVICE'*

This will then be passed to the legal dept/solicitor. You have a duty to inform the other party in the court case (or potential court case) any information that may have a baring on the outcome, and if you feel they have failed to provide adequate information, you must tell them that unless they do, you will notify the court.

 

If you are in any doubt, seek the help of a qualified solicitor. A good one can be worth her weight in gold.

 

GOOD LUCK with you case.

 

*To everyone else, this sub heading should only be used in the rare occassion that you are notifying the DCA/OC of litigation material, or their failure there of. Do not use such a heading to get them to take your letters more seriously, the account manager will pass letters with this sort of heading to a supervisor, they will read it and if it is not informing them of pre-litigation material then your file will be marked and future letters ignored.

 

Supervisors can be extremly nice people and good to have on your side when you feel your winning the battle (i.e they don't have a valid CCA) but don't waste their time .

 

I'll be back on tonight to answer questions.

 

 

PS. Someone PM me relating to 'team leaders' within DCAs. I'll explain their role in my post on 'what not to tell them', because I have deliberately ommited them so far.

[Werner M]

THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP AND INFORMATION YOUR GIVING.......and also a BIG THANKS to all the moderators and Helpers....

[ginnever]

I've now had the chance to look at this in detail and feel the point I need to make is relevant to a lot of people.

 

I agree that they have not fulfilled your original request but they have provided all the information they hold on file. The comment 'our legal advisors say we do not need to comply' is a standard response, if this was true it would be a letter from their solicitors you would be reading!

 

What you need to do now is write a letter explaining that your orginal request has not ben fully satisfied. Detail what you think is missing. Notify them that the missing documents will be pointed out to the court. Reiterate the court date. Give them 14 days to provide the missing information. Send recorded delivery.

 

On the letter, on the line below the Dear sir/madam write in a font that is bigger then all other fonts and in bold:

'DO NOT IGNORE THIS LETTER - LITIGATION ADVICE'*

This will then be passed to the legal dept/solicitor. You have a duty to inform the other party in the court case (or potential court case) any information that may have a baring on the outcome, and if you feel they have failed to provide adequate information, you must tell them that unless they do, you will notify the court.

 

If you are in any doubt, seek the help of a qualified solicitor. A good one can be worth her weight in gold.

 

GOOD LUCK with you case.

 

*To everyone else, this sub heading should only be used in the rare occassion that you are notifying the DCA/OC of litigation material, or their failure there of. Do not use such a heading to get them to take your letters more seriously, the account manager will pass letters with this sort of heading to a supervisor, they will read it and if it is not informing them of pre-litigation material then your file will be marked and future letters ignored.

 

Supervisors can be extremly nice people and good to have on your side when you feel your winning the battle (i.e they don't have a valid CCA) but don't waste their time .

 

I'll be back on tonight to answer questions.

 

 

PS. Someone PM me relating to 'team leaders' within DCAs. I'll explain their role in my post on 'what not to tell them', because I have deliberately ommited them so far.

 

Thank you

 

Does it make any difference that the CCA they have sent to me doesn't havea any dates on My signature is on but no date which I find odd. also the signature for the company doesn't have any dates on..

 

The deed of assignment is dated the 16th May on the from but the signatures on the back for the company are the same signature as the witness...is that legal?

[Tila]

Hi Folks,

 

Just trying my luck with my issues.... As it seems all the ultra inteligannt CAG's are on this thread....

 

 

Need your lot's great advise on this matter. Think its a little complicated but will try to keep it sweet and simple.

 

Had Halifax Current account with overdraft of £3200 for over 5 years, which they keep automatically renewing and sending me letter to confirm annually.

 

In Oct 07 when my balance was new OD limit my card was cloned and I was subjected to around £400 of fraud making my account over limit (through no fault of my own).

 

I visited the bank explained etc they filed an investigation etc and the Bank manager manage to extend my overdraft by the same amount (for 1 month) so that I can take money out, great I thought....

 

But then after that when the month has gone by they decided to put my limit back to £0 !!! They would not put it back to the initial amount as promised by the bank manager.

 

So i complained to no avail got final responce back, basically saying NO and so I now owe them £3500+. They have added a hell of a lot of charges on it too. Now they have sent me a de fault letter etc etc

 

Can some one please advise me what action to pursue now?? I have complained to the FOS but it gas not been looked at yet as they are busy.

 

 

Pls Pls Pls HELP........

 

Thanks in advance

[master woody]

Hi Folks,

 

Just trying my luck with my issues.... As it seems all the ultra inteligannt CAG's are on this thread....

 

 

Need your lot's great advise on this matter. Think its a little complicated but will try to keep it sweet and simple.

 

Had Halifax Current account with overdraft of £3200 for over 5 years, which they keep automatically renewing and sending me letter to confirm annually.

 

In Oct 07 when my balance was new OD limit my card was cloned and I was subjected to around £400 of fraud making my account over limit (through no fault of my own).

 

I visited the bank explained etc they filed an investigation etc and the Bank manager manage to extend my overdraft by the same amount (for 1 month) so that I can take money out, great I thought....

 

But then after that when the month has gone by they decided to put my limit back to £0 !!! They would not put it back to the initial amount as promised by the bank manager.

 

So i complained to no avail got final responce back, basically saying NO and so I now owe them £3500+. They have added a hell of a lot of charges on it too. Now they have sent me a de fault letter etc etc

 

Can some one please advise me what action to pursue now?? I have complained to the FOS but it gas not been looked at yet as they are busy.

 

 

Pls Pls Pls HELP........

 

Thanks in advance

 

You need to start a new thread.....sorry but new threads always get a responce

[blue4ever]

The man said he will answer any questions, i was also told to go back to my tread, GIVE TILA A BREAK

[tifo]

The main one that has worked a treat so far is never confirming that I own property

 

a simple land registry check can confirm you own property. I've had it on some accounts.

[onthebrink]

Thank you

 

Does it make any difference that the CCA they have sent to me doesn't havea any dates on My signature is on but no date which I find odd. also the signature for the company doesn't have any dates on..

You would expect the date and signature to appear together on the same form but sometimes it may be included with the header or footer. But you would ecpect there to ba a date.

 

The deed of assignment is dated the 16th May on the from but the signatures on the back for the company are the same signature as the witness...is that legal?

You must be sure the signature are exactly the same, which I'm confident they are. The same person cannot sign for the company and as the witness.

 

Hope this helps.

[onthebrink]

Hi Folks,

 

Just trying my luck with my issues.... As it seems all the ultra inteligannt CAG's are on this thread....

 

 

Need your lot's great advise on this matter. Think its a little complicated but will try to keep it sweet and simple.

 

Had Halifax Current account with overdraft of £3200 for over 5 years, which they keep automatically renewing and sending me letter to confirm annually.

 

In Oct 07 when my balance was new OD limit my card was cloned and I was subjected to around £400 of fraud making my account over limit (through no fault of my own).

 

I visited the bank explained etc they filed an investigation etc and the Bank manager manage to extend my overdraft by the same amount (for 1 month) so that I can take money out, great I thought....

 

But then after that when the month has gone by they decided to put my limit back to £0 !!! They would not put it back to the initial amount as promised by the bank manager.

 

So i complained to no avail got final responce back, basically saying NO and so I now owe them £3500+. They have added a hell of a lot of charges on it too. Now they have sent me a de fault letter etc etc

 

Can some one please advise me what action to pursue now?? I have complained to the FOS but it gas not been looked at yet as they are busy.

 

 

Pls Pls Pls HELP........

 

Thanks in advance

 

Unfortunately your in the position so many people subjected to fraud find themselves in.

 

Through no fault of your own the bank has determined to withdraw you overdraft facilty, which they have a legal right to do. It's not nice but it is a reality at this moment in time.

 

There are 3 things you need to resolve.

 

1) The unlawfull 'over you unathorised overdraft' fees and charges which you should start reclaiming (if you haven't done so already), and there are lots of threads under 'bank charges reclaim' for that.

 

2) The £400 that was taken from YOU, not the bank, should be reclaimed via the formal complaints procedure. I know you said you had exhausted that but I'm sure it related to reinstating the overdraft? Which they won't do. You need to start again by complaining that they have failed to refund to your account the £400 taken by fraudsters. The onus is on them to prove the money was not taken by fraudsters and was transactions you authorised. Which I'm sure they will fail to prove.

 

3) You need to open a new bank account and conduct your finances through that account, treating you Halifax account as an ongoing debt.

 

So that should start to move the debt down in the long term (they will keep adding charges until the test case is completed in July, but you need to log you complaints NOW.

 

TBH. I can't see how you can argue that the account is in dispute for the original overdraft amount. So that night be a case of agreeing to resolve the amount outstanding when they return the £400 and bank charges.

 

It's a small step but the best I can do.

[onthebrink]

The man said he will answer any questions, i was also told to go back to my tread, GIVE TILA A BREAK

 

Always happy to answer questions

[PriorityOne]

a simple land registry check can confirm you own property. I've had it on some accounts.

 

Yes, I realise that Tifo.... but that's only if you credit them with the intelligence to check the Land Registry. Only one of mine bothered.... the rest just assumed I was renting.... saving me loads of grief.