Inside a DCA!

[ginnever]

I will respond but just need you to confirm what CL is?

 

Re: Inside a DCA!

What do you make of this as I feel they have failed to supply the information requested under CPR

 

I requested information under the CPR rules & today I have received a this response from CL saying-

 

We have been in contact with our solicitors HC who have advised that we are not obligded to provide this information and would advise that the particulars of claim detailed om the cc form should be sufficent to allow you to respond accordingly.

 

Having said that we have been in contact with opur predecessors GE money & have been able to obtain certain information which is enclosed herewith.

 

They have sent a copy of the credit agreement CC act 1974 page 1 of 3

Which is signed by me, however no date against my signature,

A signature for GE money which you can't tell whose signed and again no date.

 

A copy of the deed of assignment 5 pages dated on the front the 16th May 2007 a scribbled signature on the back. This is the first time I have ever seen one of these...

Also a set of copy statements ranging from Mar 02 to May 07 however not complete as there are some statements missing...

 

How would you proceed from here as CL have not complied fully with my request under CPR?

 

I am due in court on the 31.03.08

 

thanks

 

:-?

 

Sorry CL = CL Finanace & HC = Howard Cohen Solicitors

 

Debt owed on a store card Debenhams, then CL Finanace came on board followed by H Cohen solicitors . If you look at Cohen & my property

Many thanks

[bifidus digestivum]

So if I read this right, if the DCA can not produce the CCA then they will continue to chase the debt until a court decides it’s unenforceable. In my case the default was issued 8 years ago and has now fallen off my credit file. I assume if I contest it they can’t default it again? In which case their only option would be to go to court to seek a CCJ.

 

If I go down this route should I stop making payments? Would the fact I’ve made payments for 8 years cause me problems?

[FLWLSW]

Subbing in

 

Fascinating stuff, if all DCA protocol and personnel were this honest and practical there would be far less posts on CAG.

[The GodMother]

you can stop making payments where ever you like.

 

U have been paying this for 8 years.

 

there is always an option where you get all the info and take them to court yourself as you will still be wanting the same thing.

[onthebrink]

These will be simple assignments, then. This may well help to explain the 'rights but not duties' mantra trotted out by so many low-end DCAs. We know that in many cases it's simply bolleaux, but it may be that in other cases that it's a simple assignment and we can go after the OC as well.

 

Yes. Your getting this DCA lark...

[onthebrink]

Hi Onthebrink

 

A fantastic thread, very very informative. I have some qustions for you if you don't mind?

 

1) what's your advise on Bank overdraft debts that are years old? I know they are apparently not covered by CCA but some OC DCA think they are and respond in similar fashion as like credit cards.

You sahould treat an overdraft debt as you would any other. The DCA are!! If you call the DCA about an overdraft debt they don't change script!! to a DCA account manager a debt is a debt is a debt.

Regarding CCAs and overdrafts, to be honest, there are lots of threads on here debating the legal position on that and they have a wealth of information and experical evidence to provide you with a better answer.

 

2) what's the best way to get rid of DCA /OC etc who have been trying for years and years?

If the debt is less than 6 years the OC is likely just to move the debt around between DCAs. At some point the OC will write-off the debt within their accounts and this is usually after they have sold it on to a DCA (see comments expressed above). THAT DOES NOT MEAN THE DEBT DISAPPEARS, IT JUST MEANS THE OC HAVE CONCLUDE THEY CANNOT RECOVER THE DEBT.

If the debt is over 6 years old and you have not communicated or admitted you owe the debt then the DCA is not legally allowed to pursue you. See the thread on 'stratute barred'.

My advice: ignore them. They will either take you to court for a CCJ judgement or it will drop off you CRA record 6 years after the orginal default notice was issued, and they then cannot pursue you. BUT It actually might be you that is causing the DCA to pursue you, by the simple fact that you responding to their threats, and thus you are keeping the fire burning. Rougue debtors use this strategy on enforcable debts to prevent payments for many many years.

 

3)I had a CCJ years ago that has disappeared (only just realized after obtaining my Credit file). I have been paying Brachers Solicitors £10/month every month since judgment (shame I didn't come across this site then eh?)

The problem is I can not fir the life of me remember how much this was and wether i have actually paid it off and am still paying unnecessarry?? Have written to Brachers many many time but they just don't reply. If I still owe them from initail judgement what can they do if i stop paying? can they default me? and will me CCJ ome back again?

Stop paying. They will write to you with an outstanding balance letter and demand you start paying, you can call, say sorry, and resume payments knowing how much you owe. Two things to remember - 1) ensure they do not add charges for you 'failure to pay' and 2) if they issue a default notice ensure they remove it.

 

Thanks again for your help, I know ur v busy today with all replies etc..

 

T

 

Hope this helps.

[onthebrink]

Hi and thanks for the reply.

 

What concerns me about this matter is that the OC and DCA have all signed for the paperwork and have all had the evidence regarding this as in bank statements and official letters from our bank and the OCs bank to say that the money was paid and the money was recieved.

Ignorance on the part of the DCA, they act for the OC and so will just keep chasing.

 

How can they just ignore the evidence and how can they just ignore letters that were sent especially when they are signing for them as the debitor will have proof the letter was signed for?

Because the DCA staff will see that you file already has that information and ignore it because the OC say there is no legal basis to you claim. But that don't make it right though.

 

Also how can the OC refuse to accept any liability for the missing payments with the large amount of evidence and even there own bank saying the money is there?

If the OC refuse to admit liability you must take them to court. If you have ALL the evidence to support the money was paid you need to seek the advice of a solicitor. Explain the position you are in and ensure they understand you want to reclaim all legal charges from the OC. Solicitors will assess you case, often for free, and you will then be in a position to know exactly what the next step should.

Stop banging your head against a DCA wall and call a solicitor.

 

Thanks for being so understand with us and for answering all our question BTW as you will understand some of us are having quite a few problems with DCAs.

 

Chrissi

 

Good luck.

[onthebrink]

Onthebrink, I think I love you!

Seriously great thread, and many thanks! xx

 

 

Thank you.

[The GodMother]

They have now stopped chasing me but only when i threatend them with harrassent court papers.

[onthebrink]

Hi Onthebrink,

It's good to meet you. Can you tell me please if it's legitimate for an OC to issue default notices when no actual payments have been missed?

You need to go back to your CRA and identify the date when the default notice was issued on the account. You then need to trace back 90 days and put in writing, providing certified copies of the evidence, to support you claim that there were 'no missed payments' during that 90 day default period.

This should be sent to the OC recorded delivery and give the 28 days to respond or you will commence legal action for 'unlawfull issue of a default notice'. Update the DCA in writing informing them that you have issued the OC with a formal 'pre-litergation dispute' letter, and request they hold the account for 48 hours so they (DCA) can obtain instructions from the OC.

 

The default notices never arrived either but the accounts were passed on to DCAs after that and the hounding began.

Thanks for a brilliant thread which is answering lots of questions.

 

The DCA will chase once the default is issued. So that is not the problem tbh.

[onthebrink]

A question regarding a different DCA/OC.

 

I am just going to give you a bit of backround before i ask the question as this may help u.

Now the DCA is the in house for the OC they are operating under a different name but it is pretty obvious they are the same company when you look at the paperwork and when you look on line.

 

I had 2 different accounts with a company under there sub companys.

Now i queried the account with CCA requests and they passed the accounts to there in house DCAs.

 

I requeried the CCAs and got back nothing that was a CCA just a couple of statements and the other account i got back a blank CCA asking that i fill it in and send it back.

 

Sent them a non compliance letter and then after about 6 weeks they wrote to me saying they accepted the CCA was unenforcable and dropped the account and sent it back to the OC who then cleared the balance.

 

A couple of days before the letter telling me the DCA has dropped the file and the OC had cleared the balance they registered a deafult on my credit referance file but the amount it settled and stands at zero. I have contacted the OC and they claim it was not them and the DCA claims it was not them. They have refused to remove the deafult. They have the deafult amount at zero not anything else.

 

How can either company say it was the other and how can they register the deafult as correct if the amount is zero and no body will admitt to puttin it there?

 

There are 3 points here.

 

1) CCA request -

the OC was unable to provide a valid CCA for either account and would have determined the debt was not recovable.

2) £0 balance on accounts

the OC not the DCA would have updated your CRA to show a £0 balance, they wrote the debt off.

3) Default notice on CRA

If you had missed contractual payments on the accounts for 90 days then it is standard to issue a default notice.

 

What it appears to look like happened is the OC realised they could not enforce the debt so decided to write it off and update the CRA with £0 balance.

They may have realised that no default notice was issued and so corrected their error.

 

The OC has a duty to other lenders to ensure the information on your CRA is as 'accurate' as possible. Hence the reason why they issued a default (telling other creditors you had failed to make the contracted payments) they put a £0 balance on the file (I would suspect they didn't put on the file 'settled in full' or 'partially settled' but by the sounds of it just a £0 (this tells other creditors that you didn't settle the account the OC did - it's a nod/wink to other creditors they wrote the debt off).

 

By the sounds of it you have achieved what most people on here desire. Possible. But drop me a PM if there is more I need to know.

 

Oh, and it would be the OC that made the decision and not the DCA.

[honey5]

I do note the dates the insider worked there . Shame theres no one t o update us all !

 

gratitude wouldnt go amiss

 

honey x

[The GodMother]

There are 3 points here.

 

1) CCA request -

the OC was unable to provide a valid CCA for either account and would have determined the debt was not recovable.

2) £0 balance on accounts

the OC not the DCA would have updated your CRA to show a £0 balance, they wrote the debt off.

3) Default notice on CRA

If you had missed contractual payments on the accounts for 90 days then it is standard to issue a default notice.

 

What it appears to look like happened is the OC realised they could not enforce the debt so decided to write it off and update the CRA with £0 balance.

They may have realised that no default notice was issued and so corrected their error.

 

The OC has a duty to other lenders to ensure the information on your CRA is as 'accurate' as possible. Hence the reason why they issued a default (telling other creditors you had failed to make the contracted payments) they put a £0 balance on the file (I would suspect they didn't put on the file 'settled in full' or 'partially settled' but by the sounds of it just a £0 (this tells other creditors that you didn't settle the account the OC did - it's a nod/wink to other creditors they wrote the debt off).

 

By the sounds of it you have achieved what most people on here desire. Possible. But drop me a PM if there is more I need to know.

 

Oh, and it would be the OC that made the decision and not the DCA.

 

 

OTB.

 

I only stopped payments when they failed to product the documents which i was entitled to due under the rules.

 

Does this still effect the deafult? Oh and no deafult notice has ever been recieved by me for either accounts.

[Patma]

[it's good to meet you. Can you tell me please if it's legitimate for an OC to issue default notices when no actual payments have been missed?

You need to go back to your CRA and identify the date when the default notice was issued on the account. You then need to trace back 90 days and put in writing, providing certified copies of the evidence, to support you claim that there were 'no missed payments' during that 90 day default period.

This should be sent to the OC recorded delivery and give the 28 days to respond or you will commence legal action for 'unlawfull issue of a default notice'. Update the DCA in writing informing them that you have issued the OC with a formal 'pre-litergation dispute' letter, and request they hold the account for 48 hours so they (DCA) can obtain instructions from the OC. /QUOTE]

 

Thankyou Onthebrink for your very sound advice. I'm really grateful that you've taken the time to share so much of your valuable experience with us. I shall certainly pursue your sugggestions.

I have copies of the default notices they alleged they sent me through issuing an SAR and I'm pretty sure they don't comply with the legal requirements either, so I guess that's another stick to beat them with.

I would have happily carried on making regular monthly payments, as I have done for the last 10 years, if they hadn't suddenly turned nasty on me.

I've discovered, from my SAR, that last April a sum equal to the outstanding balance was entered as a credit, leaving a nil balance on each of my three accounts and every month thereafter it shows payment due £0.0 and payment received £0.0

I was meanwhile oblivious to this and happily making my normal monthly payments. Fortunately I have receipts to show the payments were made, but there is no mention of my payments on the statements provided under my SAR nor any reference to the debts having been sold to any third parties, so what's going on I haven't a clue.

Thanks again Onthebrink for creating a great thread. You're a star:D

[onthebrink]

Very good ,good info . I think its very clear there are a huge number of unenforceable accounts. If you have any doubts you must fight back against the tactics used by the DCA,S . The info provided shows that phoning these companies must be avoided and contact should be by letter only . This thread make me more focused on dealing with them .

 

Yes. Letter should be your main point of contact. At least YOU have a record of exactely what is said.

 

HOWEVER:

 

You should call the DCA once, this would be best right at the start, but if not then way up what the know and whether it would be to YOUR advantage to clarify your position.

 

If you are going to call them:

Prepare what you are going to say - write a statement setting out your financial position, your repayment offer, how long you want the repayment offer to last before re-assessment (6 months). Tell them you will confirm this ion writing with a budget.

 

How to do this....

When the call has gone past the security questions say clearly, I need you to understand that...read your prepared statement...if at anytime they try to interrupt say 'Please show me the respect to listen and I will show you simular respect when I have finished' finish you statement.

Request they make NO CALLS as you 'do not discuss your financial position verbally but only in writing for both parties legal protection'.

If they just keep interrupting ignore what is said and go on autodrive...look at and concentrate on your statement and do not listen to the DCA staff...

Then stop. Thank them for their time and hang up. Do not wait for a reply.

 

All you will get is ' Miss X you need to pay this NOW'.

 

You have now formally told them everything they need to know. Follow this with a letter.

[onthebrink]

I think a few well placed reputation clicks wouldn't go amiss either!!

 

 

I agree

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

[onthebrink]

Sorry CL = CL Finanace & HC = Howard Cohen Solicitors

 

Debt owed on a store card Debenhams, then CL Finanace came on board followed by H Cohen solicitors . If you look at Cohen & my property

Many thanks

 

Thanks.

 

Can I respond to this in a PM, mainly because I need to think of a good response. I'll do this Thursday morning if that's OK ginnever.

[The GodMother]

I agree

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

 

Cheeky......... maybe you should try and find the part where the rep comments are.

[onthebrink]

So if I read this right, if the DCA can not produce the CCA then they will continue to chase the debt until a court decides it’s unenforceable. In my case the default was issued 8 years ago and has now fallen off my credit file. I assume if I contest it they can’t default it again? In which case their only option would be to go to court to seek a CCJ.

 

If I go down this route should I stop making payments? Would the fact I’ve made payments for 8 years cause me problems?

 

They can only default you once - 90 days after you stopped contractual payments. A CCJ is not their only option of debt enforcement, they can pass it to a DCA to hound you, and you may never get to go down the CCJ route.

Be carefull...I don't know the payment plan agreement you made in order to have paid them for 8 years! the OC/DCA may issue a new default notice on the grounds that the payments you are making are now the 'contractual payments'. It's a small legal technicality you would have to go to court to resolve.

[onthebrink]

OTB.

 

I only stopped payments when they failed to product the documents which i was entitled to due under the rules.

 

Does this still effect the deafult?

No. the default is put on your CRA to highlight the fact that contractual payments have stopped or were missed. The reason or motivation for the stopped payments has no relevance to the issue of a default.

A default is saying in laymans terms... 'they stopped paying' it does not register as 'they stopped paying because...'

 

Oh and no deafult notice has ever been recieved by me for either accounts.

 

You can make a formal request to the OC for a copy of the original default notice. But I think it's a bit pointless. I can't comment on why you never received them.

[onthebrink]

 

I've discovered, from my SAR, that last April a sum equal to the outstanding balance was entered as a credit, leaving a nil balance on each of my three accounts and every month thereafter it shows payment due £0.0 and payment received £0.0

I was meanwhile oblivious to this and happily making my normal monthly payments. Fortunately I have receipts to show the payments were made, but there is no mention of my payments on the statements provided under my SAR nor any reference to the debts having been sold to any third parties, so what's going on I haven't a clue.

 

A £0 balance entered on you account indicates the debt was written off. Anything you paid after that date was a bonus to the OC.

Please understand they may have sold the debt on but more likely they wrote it off within their accounts as part of their aged debtor list. It is common place for ALL businesses to have a bad debt write off procedure whereby when the debt hits a certain aged it is written off.

[onthebrink]

Thanks for all the nice rep remarks.

:wink:

 

Much appreciated.

 

Tomorrow I will return with:

 

'Information you should NEVER tell a DCA.'

 

Some of it is obvious, but the smallest 'slip' can mean the difference between them pursuing a CCJ or giving you a £0 balance write-off :grin: .

[ananya]

Hi onthebrink, I have a question for you, if you don't mind answering.

 

I have 2 debts with the same OC that were assigned to a DCA 2 years ago. I CCAd the DCA who furnished me with all the information along with statements from the OC showing both debts were written off when they were assigned to the DCA.

 

But, the DCA has now given up and referred my accounts back to the OC, can they still chase me for written off debts?

 

Many thanks.

[Patma]

Thankyou soo much for that Onthebrink! I never cease to be amazed at how these creditors and DCAs operate. I can't believe their cheek, to be still chasing me for debts that have been written off. I wonder if they get tax relief on the written off debts too.LOL

 

Can't wait for your next instalment tomorrow.

[car2403]

Here's one for you, onthebrink;

 

What changes have been made to DCA's internal procedures now they are covered by the Financial Ombudsman Service? I've made formal complaints about harrassment over unenforceable debts and had a response saying they've passed the account back to the OC - is this usual practise, so you could say making a formal complaint is the best way to "manage" DCA contact? (This one was Lewis Debt Recovery, FYI)