Cohen & my property

[ginnever]

Hi

Received a letter from Cohen solicitors with a court date 28/1 @ Bradford CC They are applying to the courts to have a charge lodged against my property. The letter says Please find enclosed by way of service upon you a copy of an interim charging order together with a copy of the application which is scheduled to be heard in the bradford cc I have only received the letter saying when the court case is & the interim charging order should I have recived more than this.

 

Do I need to go to court?

 

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Can you give us details on the CCJ and if you attended.

 

Also what is the debt for, how old and amount.

 

HAK

[lookinforinfo]

If you can't get the case quashed then yes you should attend the Court as

they are trying to convert an unsecured debt into a secured one. In other words

if you default on the debt at some time in the future, they can take some of the proceeds of your house sale to pay off the debt.

 

Once you give us more information as HAK has suggested, we can go on from there, but time is against you so a fast response would be a help for you.

[ginnever]

This is for an account with debenhams. I received a letter asking for payment from CL finance for this o/s debt. £2400.00 - which is for goods & interest . As I had not received a letter from anyone saying that this had been transferred or assigned from GE money to cl finance / cohen I didn't believe that they could do anything about this. (It seems that I am wrong) Then in JUne last year received a court papers The blue form from northampton asking for the money again didn't belive it to be right- hence didn't do anything-- I then received a a letter from the court saying that I had to pay £125 per month as I didn;t , I thought that the least would be the bailiffs turning up , again they didn't . In dec received a letter from Cohen saying that I will be answering in front of a judge ---hence didn;t do anything.... Now received this letter an interim charging order To attend court at Bradford on the 28th Jan @ 12 noon. I have contacted the credit counselling serive who have made me an appointment and will be phoning me next thursday. Yesterday I received from the Land registery details that cohen/cl finance are wanting to lodge a charge against my property & that I am to respond before the 31st jan.

I want to ask that the court case be heard in Sheffield where I live but don't know how to go about this.

 

I also may be able to raise a £1000 towards this debt and again don't know how to go about offering this and if it would make any difference.

 

Where do I go from here! (What a mess & as usual I haven't spoke to anyone about this )

 

thank you

[lookinforinfo]

Ginnever, many of us on the forum are probably guilty of sticking our heads in the sand-but you appear to have turned it into an art form. Still you are in the right place now, though as I said earlier, time is not on our side.As such, it may be necessary for you to ask the Court for more time.

 

If you look at the form from the Court there is a provision for you to nominate

the nearest Court to you.

 

The first thing to find out is whether CL Finance have the legal right to pursue

you for the money in the first place. Following on from there, we need to ascertain if the amount being claimed by them is correct-if not their claim fails.

Lastly, if all else fails, the fact that you can produce £1000 may help to forestall the Charging Order since it will bring the £125 per month payments

under the Judgement ruling up to date.

 

 

I am grateful to CurlyBen and Discmandave for providing this information-

 

So send this letter to CL Finance

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I acknowledge receipt of your notice of legal action sent by your company on ...december 2007

which was received on ....december 2007.

Please be aware that any proceedings will be extremely vigorously defended .

I am unable to respond further at this time, since you have given me inadequate information

to investigate the claim. Please note that under the Overriding Objectives, you have a duty

to act reasonably at all times.

As you are aware, under the pre-action protocols of the Civil Procedure Rules, your letter

before action should have included the following information:

4.3 The claimant's letter should —

(a) give sufficient concise details to enable the recipient to understand and investigate the

claim without extensive further information;

(b) enclose copies of the essential documents which the claimant relies on;

© ask for a prompt acknowledgement of the letter, followed by a full written response

within a reasonable stated period;

(For many claims, a normal reasonable period for a full response may be one month.)

(d) state whether court proceedings will be issued if the full response is not received

within the stated period;

(e) identify and ask for copies of any essential documents, not in his possession, which

the claimant wishes to see;

(f) state (if this is so) that the claimant wishes to enter into mediation or another alternative

method of dispute resolution; and

(g) draw attention to the court's powers to impose sanctions for failure to comply with this

practice direction and, if the recipient is likely to be unrepresented, enclose a copy of this

practice direction.

I note that your letter failed to enclose copies of the essential documents upon which you

will seek to rely, failed to ask for acknowledgement of the letter, failed to ask for a written

response within a reasonable period of time, and did not draw attention to the courts powers

to force all parties to comply with the practice direction.

I intend to provide you with a full written response, but as yet I have not got adequate

information to investigate your claim.

 

 

To enable me to defend this claim I require specific information regarding the account

to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings,

you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

I will be unable to respond to your claim without this information, and by failing to supply it

before starting legal action you would breach the overriding objective of the Civil Procedure Rules.

Request for disclosure;

I request that you send me information vital to investigating your claims, including:

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied

to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and

payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to it the account.

b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to

telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor.

c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required

manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have

either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual

intervention in relation to my account formerly held with HFC Bank Ltd.

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the

amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and

what the charge covers.

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

3. Any other documents you will seek to rely upon in court.

4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their

registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt,

and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.

Please note, I will respond to your claim in full within 15 days of your providing this information.

Furthermore, if you can satisfy me that you are the lawful owner of the debt;that the amount stated is correct and you can supply the original credit agreement, please be advised that I am in the position of being able to pay the outstanding amount of the Judgement [ie 7 months x £125].This should

prevent the case from going to Court.

I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are denying me the opportunity to settle this matter amicably.

In addition, if you feel that you will be unable to supply this information

in time for me to digest it and provide a defence prior to the Court date,

perhaps you could ask the Court to defer the actual date, and please be good enough to advise me whether you will apply for a deferral or not.

 

Yours Faithfully,

 

 

 

Once they have supplied all the data you have requested let us know-especially the original credit agreement, as well as any charges applied by

Debenhams or CL Finance. [i assume it was a store card you had with

Debenhams-when did you first take it out -approximate date will do].

[ginnever]

Thank you

 

As I said I the only thing that I have received on Thursday was a letter from Cohen's and an interim charging letter attached informing me when the court case is to be.

 

Nowhere do I have anything giving me any options is all that was in the envelope ( A4 size window) was 2 peices of paper!

 

If I send the letter that you have suggested what do I do about the court business?

 

ps I do agree I have been stick my head in the sand, I think it got stuck,

Once they have supplied all the data you have requested let us know-especially the original credit agreement, as well as any charges applied by

Debenhams or CL Finance. [i assume it was a store card you had with

Debenhams-when did you first take it out -approximate date will do].

About 5/6 years I think -

[ginnever]

Yesterday I received from the Land registery details that cohen/cl finance are wanting to lodge a charge against my property & that I am to respond before the 31st jan.

[lookinforinfo]

If you get that letter off to them asap, in a way you have put the ball into their court by asking if they will deal with the Court if they feel they will be unable to supply the data you want before the Court date.

 

As the Court date gets closer and if they still haven't sent you all the documents you have asked for, then you may have to ring the Court and explain that CL are failing in their obligation to provide the relevant paperwork so that you can furnish the Court with a defence. As such, you are asking that the Court defer the case until such time as the documents can be supplied and also giving you time to go through them.

 

Might be an idea if you read the FAQs on the first page of the forum so that

you understand what unfair charges are and if you have any of them

[and you probably will if you have missed payments and had late payments],

then you can query the actual debt figure since if the debt is not the amount claimed, their case fails.

Also it is likely that with a debt of that age that Debenhams may not be able to locate your original credit card agreement but don't count your chickens yet.

 

Not had dealings with Land Registry before, so suggest that you acknowledge

their letter and advise them that you will be attending Court to dispute the

Charging Order and will let them know the outcome.

[ginnever]

The debt was with debenhams originally in my name and there has only ever been me that bought goods with the card.

 

However I forgot to mention that Cohens have sent the same instruction to my husband to attend court on the 28th.

 

Why when the debt is not in his name & never has been, also does he need to send the same letter off to Cohen as I am sending the one you suggested?

 

thank you in advance:-)

[lookinforinfo]

If the mortgage is in joint names, then a Charging Order would affect him too.

He may have different objections to you as to why the Order should not be applied. Or he can choose not to go at all. His call. but the moral support

might be a help to you. And the Judge may take a kindly view should you both

appear since it shows you want to resolve the matter.

 

But even without the mortgage situation, when one is married any debts incurred after the

marriage can be the responsibility of either or both partners regardless as to

who actually took out the loan ane even if the debt was taken out by just one of you.

[ginnever]

do I just send the letter to cohen or does he need to aswell? would I be able to fax a copy to cohen and a recorded delivery as well, or do I not bother with faxed one.

 

I would really like the case be heard nearer home in sheffield

How can I request that?

 

Thanks

[lookinforinfo]

You should have received a notification from Bradford CC giving you an outline

of the hearing. When you fill it in, there is a sectionwhere you can ask to have the case held near to your home.

If you have not received/read the notice from the Court, it may be best now to ring them and ask to have it moved, as well as asking why you weren't sent any notification from the Court. Check that they will expect you to

confirm that you need to complete a form or whether your phone call will

suffice.

 

 

A single letter from your self to Cohens is all that is needed.

[ginnever]

probably be a bit late but if I was to try & offer a settlement figure who who I ask CL finance or Cohens?

[lookinforinfo]

I would be inclined to wait for their response to your letter. The ball will be in their court then and they will have to move to get your paperwork sent to you in time. it is not your fault they have not sent it already.

 

It may well be that they cannot provide what you have asked for, in which case it may be you can get the ccj quahed, never mind getting out of the

Charging Order. Lots of "maybe's" I know, so don't be in too much of a hurry

to give them money now.

 

If the thought of going to Court is stressing you, try to fight against it. These

hearings are very low key and I think you may be surprised how relaxed things are there. It is nothing like the actions you see in films.

At the end of the day, you will still be able to offer to bring your £125 per

month payments up to date thus reducing the possibility of getting a CO.

 

You can quite honestly say that as you had never received a Default notice,

you were unaware that CL could pursue you for the money so you didn't take

them seriously. And then matters had gone so far that you didn't know how to

respond. But you felt that before seeking a CO on your house they should

have written to you prior to that advising you of what they were going to do

to give you a chance to put your point of view-something that you have not done as yet.

[ginnever]

Many thanks

 

I've sent my letter off today to CL finance.

 

Should I now contact the court to ask why I have not received any notification outlining the case and also ask for it to be moved.

[lookinforinfo]

Yes Ginnever, do contact the Court. Point out to them that you have received nothing from the Court as yet and you have just written and asked CL to provide a host of documents to aid your defence [and which, by the way they should have already sent you]. And there is very little chance that the papers will be returned in time for the case, let alone you having time to digest the information and strengthen your arguments.

Don't forget to add that you would like the hearing to be local to you.

[ginnever]

Contacted the court this morning, Civil listings, the clerk half laughed and said that the only correspondence that I will recieve is the letter & notification of the interim charging order, and no I won't receive from them anything outlining the case. If I want the case hearing in Sheffield I need to write to them and them will change the date.

 

As far as the Land Registery that charging order stays there until the court case which will decide whether it is removed or stays.

 

Sent my letter off to CL asking for documents - wait & see now

[ginnever]

Just to update you. Sent off my recorded delivery letter to CL last week still waiting to hear from them. Also contacted Court today to make sure that they have received my request to move the hearing to a court nearer home.

 

Do I need to do anything else or contact anyone, is it just wait now?

[sequenci]

How was the transfer requested (if you don't mind me asking)

[ginnever]

I take it that you mean the request to transfer to another court?

 

As per a previous posting suggested write to the court and ask them to transfer to a court nearer to my address.

 

I wrote to the court and followed it up with a telephone call to confirm that they had received my request. I was informed that they have and I will be notified of a new date & where

 

Any particular reason for asking?

[ginnever]

Hi further update still not heard any thing from CL, any ideas how long it might be?

 

Received a letter today from Bradford County Court saying they have passed case to a court near home>

[lookinforinfo]

When did Bradford Court say the case would be heard?

If they can't find the original agreement, they may well stall. It may be an idea for you to look at threads relating to original agreements where members have written in asking for confinmation tha they have been sent the correct document. In many cases that have not. And if the original agreement cannot be produced, the debt cannot be enforced-even by a Court.

However as there is already a CCJ in place, you would need to confirm that

the OA was not produced at that hearing in order to get the CCJ removed.

 

If that was the case, [that the OA was not produced in Court when a CCJ was applied for]it is really poor of the Courts to allow a debt to be

treated in this way when not even the most cursory of enquiries have been made of the creditor.

[ginnever]

I have received from Bradford CC an N24 form (General Form of Judgement Order) which says:

IT IS ORDERED THAT

1. This case be transfered to Sheffield County Court

 

2. The hearing due to take place on 28.1.08 be and is hereby vacated: to be re-listed upon receipt by the court of transfer for consideration together with any representations the defendant may wish to .

 

3. The intermim charaging order do continue in the meantime

 

24.01.08

 

Do I need to do anything now other than wait to hear from the courts for a hearing date?

I still haven't heard/received anything from CL finance, how long do I wait to hear from them?

Thanks in advance:)

[ginnever]

I have just been reading through my postings & responses and I have only sent a letter to CL finance

 

lookinforinfo posting on the 13.01.08 said send a single letter from yourself to cohens. I am confused now., as further up in the posting said to send letter to CL:confused:

 

Help

[lookinforinfo]

There is nothing to do as far as the Court is concerned-they will inform you in their own good time when the hearing will be heard.

 

If you sent the letter from post 5 to CL finance, then that is fine. Not sure where I suggested writing to Cohens, but what you have done is sufficient.

Once you get the Court date, and if you still have not received the papers form CL, then let us know.

Did you send the letter to CL by recorded delivery? If not, ring them up and ask if they have received it. You may have to write to them again-the same letter but by recorded just to make sure they will comply with your request.