Update to my Ebay bag case ***Claim Dismissed***

[ShonaDK]

Please be gentle as I am new here.

I purchased a beach bag from eBay in July for total £91.45. Found on measurements when it arrived, to be significantly larger than advertised. Sent seller pics. Seller told me I had photographed it in a way it would never be used so refused return, but it was an unstructured fabric bag so that was exactly how it looked worn. For info, this is an individual but they have multiple of the same bag listed in their shop. 

I opened a case with eBay who said seller had to accept return. Seller accepted return with 2nd class postage but not covering the cost of the bag. They already had bad feedback from someone else saying they lied about returns so I was concerned and queried it. They refused to budge, so next day went to print the label, only it didn’t work and the link said I had been fully refunded. I messaged them to explain I couldn’t return the bag as the label no longer worked, but I didn’t want it. I asked if they could send me a new label. They didn’t reply do after about a month, I donated to charity as had no use for the bag.

They then sent me a grammatically awful warning letter threatening me with small claims and insisting upon immediate bag return. I explained that I had disposed of the bag (via eBay messaging) and advised continued harassment, I would go to the police as they had previously sent many unpleasant messages and said they were suing lots of buyers and were going to sue me… that I was an idiot who didn’t understand the law etc etc. They have been really nasty to me in every message, and have even said in the small claims summons that I likely suffer from mental health problems, drunkenness, or drug use.

Ebay  said they never got involved with the dispute and the seller refunded me and closed the case themselves.

They are asking if there is a court case, it be heard in London as they are registered disabled.  I live in Newcastle upon Tyne. Also, that they get the bag AND 8% interest per day on the cost of the bag from 8th August forward. However, they have calculated this themselves to be an additional £732 per day. 

EBay have said I have followed all their rules and it was the seller who refunded me, not eBay. EBay have sent me a transcript email supporting that I followed their T&Cs to the letter. Ebay said I was under no obligation to return the bag as the seller chose to close the case and refund me without receiving the bag first. 

Very distressed. Please advise what I can do. I contacted my home insurance legal advice line who were useless and very neutral suggesting the seller could win this. I would appreciate some support.  I am willing tbh to refund the cost of the bag, but not £732  per day which would total £30000. 

[dx100uk]

please complete this.

 

it was not yours to dispose of....

scan up everything you mention about above in any mode of comms from anyone to one mass PDF please

read upload carefully.

forget the 8% thats at the discretion of a judge and the error will be sorted.

 

dx

 

[just_jue]

DX when a case on ebay is opened the seller has the option to either send a postage label or refund the buyer. 

On the refund option it says 'refund buyer and buyer get to keep the item'  and after reading the post this is what the seller has done so I can't see that going after them later wanting the bag back can be possible.

[dx100uk]

is there not and option to refund but request they return it by sending a pre paid label too?

thanks for popping in ive not uses ebay to sell in a few years now.

but if the above is the case then its a dead duck for them. seems to be a habit for this seller to issue courts claims for this bogus return from post 1....

dx

[just_jue]

Hi DX, yes the options are (for businesses) :

Return postage label either buy one through eBay or upload your own 

or

Refund - offer partial refund 'buyer get to keep item' 

or

Refund - Buyer gets to keep item.

 

Here is on the ebay terms and conditions:

 

Your options for responding to a return request

Your options for responding to a buyer's request depend on the reason they're returning the item, and the return policy you stated in your listing.

The buyer received the wrong item, it arrived damaged, or it doesn't match the listing description

If a buyer received the wrong item, it arrived damaged, or it doesn't match the listing description, the purchase is covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee policy, they can return it to you, even if your return policy states that you don't accept returns.

If you don't respond to the return request, we may refund the buyer and seek reimbursement from you, without requiring the buyer to send the item back.

Here are your response options:

Upload your own label – The buyer will send the item back to you for a full refund, including the original postage cost. If the item is returned used or damaged, you may qualify to deduct an amount from the buyer's refund to cover the loss in the item's value.

eBay may automatically accept a return from a buyer on your behalf. Once you've received the item, you have 2 business days to review it and send a refund, or ask eBay to step in and help.

How to upload your own label

Give a full refund – The buyer will receive a full refund, including original postage costs, and they'll keep the item. This is a good option for low-value items.

How to give a full refund

Offer a partial refund – The buyer will receive a partial refund, and they'll keep the item. This can be useful when the buyer isn't completely satisfied with their purchase. For example, if an item arrived with a minor scratch – but the buyer is happy to keep it.

How to give a partial refund

Send the buyer a message – If you have any questions regarding the buyer's request, you can contact them directly. You can also use this option if you want to offer to let them exchange the item.

How to send the buyer a message

Offer a replacement or exchange: You may offer a replacement (another of the same item) or exchange (a different, but similar item) instead of a return.

How to offer a replacement or exchange

If you respond to the request but don't come to an agreement with the buyer after 3 business days, you or the buyer can ask us to step in and help.

If we step in to help, we may ask the buyer to return the item to you. You'll no longer be able to deduct an amount from the buyer's refund, even if you qualify under our seller protections.
 

As the seller didn't send a postage label and then just refunded the buyer they have accepted eBays return details in my eyes.
 

 

[ShonaDK]

I have attached as requested. 

Thanks

 

 

Thanks all for your help so far btw

PAPLOC +bits of court claimform.pdf

[dx100uk]

just get this done for now please 

post it here as TEXT by copy and paste of the Q's

ans each one

hit submit reply 

[ShonaDK]

Hope this is OK. 

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Newcastle County Court

Name of the Claimant ? Sergio Graft

 How many defendant's  joint or self ? One self

 Date of issue –  11/08/23 

date of AOS - 29-09-23

date to file defence - 13-10-23

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – 

£85 bag + £6.50 postage. Seller refunded me before I could return as bag was larger than the measurements they gave. I contacted them to offer return 12/07/23 as the old postage label did not work so I asked for a new one. Next communication was pre-action protocol dated 02/08/23

 

What is the total value of the claim? Approx £30000 according to seller
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? N/A
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? On line ebay user agreement
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? N/A
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. No
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? No
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? No
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No
 

Why did you cease payments? n /a

What was the date of your last payment? n/a
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Yes as detailed above
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? N/a
 

[dx100uk]

particulars of claim..??

is that how its written? on the claimform?? if not we need the exact wording not your overview please

dx

[AndyOrch]

On 17/09/2023 at 21:35, ShonaDK said:

I am willing tbh to refund the cost of the bag, but not £732  per day which would total £30000. 

7 pence per day please upload a scanned redacted copy of the 1st page of the claim for which contains the claimants particulars of claim.

Verbatim.

 

Andy

[ShonaDK]

I attach the warning letter pre action protocol and the claim. 

The Brief Details of claim on page 1 just says: 'Unpaid goods in Defendant's posession.'

redactedclaim.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Thanks but we already have that what I want to see is the first page of the actual court claim N1 which contains the particulars of claim (verbatim) and the monetary values (goods+ court fee + sol fee+ Total claim) to see if they are claiming £30K or if that is what you are interpreting it as.

[ShonaDK]

Sorry you are right. I did miss this as it is written further down. Claimant has not completed the bottom right amount claimed / court fee / legal representative costs. This is left blank. I saw their sums and my brain started swimming

claimpage1.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Have you not got something like the following this is a N1 manual claim form.

 

ClaimForm (1).pdf

[dx100uk]

post 6 pdf sorted and back up

dx

[just_jue]

After reading the PAP I cannot see how the seller can win any claim, they agree to eBay terms and conditions when they sign up and refunded the buyer off their own back not forced by eBay.

The buyer seem to have tried to send the bag back but for some reason the return label never worked.

 

I do have a feeling this might be the start of some type of scam, I wonder how many people who face getting a letter like this would blindly pay to get it to go away?

 

Correct me if I am wrong but if the seller did start legal proceedings I thought the buyer could have it heard at their local court and not travel to London?

[ShonaDK]

That's what I have photographed with info redacted.

On top of that is the claimant's address and mine and the rest of the form has been left blank.

It does say that value of claim is <£1000.

I can rescan with more of the image just blacked out if that is preferable?

Thanks so much to you all for helping. 

[dx100uk]

listen this is getting nowhere fast

please scan THE WHOLE PAGES not JUST A PART!! of everything you have to date 

we DONT need the Ebay T&C sheets.

do these individually as full page JPG files one picture for each full page

if you wish redact each one, but we can do that for you once we have it quickly

then use the online sites listed in upload to convert each JPG to PDF and then PDFMERGE website to merge to one mass multipage pdf file

dx

 

[lee19921992]

looking at the attachments, this looks like a fake claim form what the seller has made and printed themselves, i maybe wrong...

[ShonaDK]

Apologies: I have not done this level of word processing in many years so I am not up to date with stuff.

Tried to redact as much as I could but some of it just does not seem to have worked. It's not that I am not trying.

Please bear in mind this is the first time this has ever happened to me and I just don't use these programmes - just to read and edit and maybe write 1-2 letters a year. I hope I got it right this time

 

4 hours ago, lee19921992 said:

looking at the attachments, this looks like a fake claim form what the seller has made and printed themselves, i maybe wrong...

Sadly it is real. I called the county court this morning with a query and they confirmed that it is real

alltogetheragainforum.pdf

[dx100uk]

thats perfect

dx

 

[dx100uk]

 Date of issue –  11/08/23 

date of AOS - 29-09-23

date to file defence - 13-10-23

 

you should have an N9 acknowledgement of service form in the claim pack from the court, have you got that.?

dx

 

n9-eng.pdf

[just_jue]

If the seller had used eBay recommended service for returns this would of been a pre-paid label which would of been Tracked 48. After reading the messages the seller sent a standard 2nd class label which doesn't have an option of any tracking and only covers for loss of upto £20 (which the purchaser of the label can only claim not the sender) so the buyer was right to stand their ground wanting a tracked service for peace of mind.

The seller refunded the buyer not eBay so they chose to refund and wasn't automatically done through the escalation option.

I would go down the seller accepted eBay terms and refunded according to this terms which state that 

Give a full refund – The buyer will receive a full refund, including original postage costs, and they'll keep the item. This is a good option for low-value items.

I have attached a screenshot of what the sellers option were

re.pdf

[ShonaDK]

Yes I do. I returned it by special delivery yesterday. Would you like me to upload a copy please? I have not yet completed N9B. 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

i said slow down...please check with us before you do anything.

did you tick defend all i hope so!

you didnt need to use recorded you could have emailed it.

ok next up is filing your defence 

that need work

you've got until 10-10 so take your time.

there are not that many like claims here but you should be ok 

knock something up we'll help fine tune in.

dx