Lowell/Overdales Claimform - OH's old estimated dualfuel EON debt - she was never on nor had an EON contract nor was resident over the complete period of this final bill.

[edjama]

My partner has received a claim form for a debt owed to EON of £600 from Lowell via Overdale Solicitors. She has until wednesday to respond.

 

The money relates to an address of her uncles, who told her he would pay all bill for the time she stayed at his house. She never set up a contract with EON. 

 

How does she best defend this claim?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

dx

 

[edjama]

Which Court have you received the claim from ? Issued from Civil National Claim Centre

Name of the Claimant ? Lowell Portfolio LTD

How many defendant's  joint or self ? 1

Date of issue –  5th october 2023

date to acknowledge = 23/10

date to defend - = 06/11 

Particulars of Claim

What is the claim for – 

1. The claim is for the sum of £552.43 due by the defendant under a E.on Energy Solutions Limited account with an account reference of (12 digits).

2. The defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement.

3. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 26-08-22, notice of which has been given to the defendant.

4. The claim includes statutory interest under s.69 of the county courts act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue of these proceedings in the sum of £44.19

The clamant claims the sum of £596.61

What is the total value of the claim? 736.61

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Possibly

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? yes

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? no

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? no

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? after April 2007

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? No. Don't believe she did. Believes her uncle added her name to the account when she moved into his address

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Lowell shows up on Clearscore. Not E.on

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt Purchaser

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? unsure

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? No, probably sent to old address

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Possibly

Why did you cease payments? Unsure. Uncle was making payments. Defendant never has

What was the date of your last payment? Unsure

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Yes, rang Eon to dispute the account but they put phone down on her
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
Go to HMRC's login page.
Click the GREEN sign in button.
Click “Create sign in details”
Enter your email address where asked.
You will now be emailed a confirmation code. ...
You will now be issued with a User ID for your government gateway account.
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.do not ever use or give an email
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............

please note your corrected defence filing date

dx

 

 

[edjama]

Thank you. I have checked and this debt is not on her credit file according to clearscore.

 

 

[dx100uk]

it wont

there would have been no contract in her name with EON.

lowell think these old util bills give them some special powers they dont.

plenty of util claimform threads here to read up on.

 

[edjama]

HI.

 

Overdale have responded to the CPR31:14 request as follows:

"This debt does not arise under an agreement for credit and therefore it is not regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This means that the original creditor is not required to retain a copy of the agreement, if it was in writng, and therefore we are unable to obtain a copy.

If the matter proceeds we may ask the court to accept that there was a contract based on other evidence that may be available. Accounts of this type can be obtained by telephone, over the internet and therefore it is possible that no signed contract ever existed, or that this was entered into by electronic signature online.

There is no legal requirement for the assignment of debt to be in the form of a deed. in most cases this is done by simple contract (a debt sale agreement). Our client is under no obligation to disclose the debt sale agreement to you. This is a private contract between our client and the original creditor, the terms of which are commercially sensitive and confidential. No part of the debt sale agreement could provide, support or assist in any defence you may wish to raise, and you have neither need nor right to be privy to that content. Our client will not disclose this information to you and no other agreement/novation agreement exists or has relevance to this matter. The Notice of assignment was sent to you which discharges our obligation and a copy of this has been enclosed. 

A default notice is a technical notice required by the consumer credit act 1974 in certain circumstances in relation to credit agreements. as this debt does not arise from a credit agreement, and is therefore not regulated by that act, no default notice would have been sent."

They have attached a final bill from EON covering an outstanding balance on the FEB 21 bill and a final amount up to April 21. This was around the time my partner moved in and set up her account with Scottish power, so it appears they want her to pay for the period before she moved in.

There is a letter from Lowell dated Sept 22 stating they have bought the debt from EON.

There is a letter from EON stating that they have sold the debt as per the terms and conditions. Strangely this letter has no letterhead or other markings from EON.

What points do I now need to raise in the defence?

 

[dx100uk]

but you didnt ask for any agreement did you?

nether did you ask for the deed of assignment did you?

please dont say you did , as asking for the deed is freeman of the land twaddle and our cpr should not be changed

our crp says notice of assignment not deed...

as for the rest their usual twaddle there.

please scan up everything the sent inc their letter to one mass pdf read upload 

regardless to the above

your defence due by 4pm mon 6th nov will be formed/based from all the other util claimform threads already here

go read a few and post it up in good time to allow editing.

thats what you've been doing in the last 3 weeks i hope?

 

 

 

[edjama]

Thank you. 

I asked for Notice as per your template on this site. I guess they refer to Deed as that is probably a template they use themselves. I'll get everything scanned in at some point and post a draft defence. Many thanks

[AndyOrch]

Template response...on every utility claim they issue

[edjama]

Thanks! I've attached the PDF of what they sent as requested

2023-10-23 Overdale CPR Responce.pdf

[dx100uk]

oh dear even worse for lowells than most util claims that they usually discontinue so's not to waste money on court fees for a claim they have no hope of ever winning, hoping people simply wet themselves and cough up blindly.

an estimated dual fuel bill which inc periods the person was never even resident for and where the person in question never even signed a contract with the supplier.

this claim i can def see them discontinuing once these points are made known.

what losers.

thread title updated

[edjama]

Have they sent a Notice of assignment? Is that one of the documents provided?

I have just noticed that the letter from EON, which bears no header, is in the same font and size as the letter from Overdales.

The final bill has a slightly different font and font size. (very noticable in the letter "a") 

Should the authenticity of this document be questioned in the defence?

I also note in other threads you recommend a SAR to the utility company. Should that be done in this case?

Hi, I have made an attempt at putting together a defence. How does the following seem?

1. I the Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

2. I have never entered into an account with Eon. When I moved into the property in question I set up an account with Scottish Power. Following that I received a final bill from Eon for a period prior to me moving into the property. Therefore the bill in question relates to a period I was not the occupier of the property.

3. There was and still remains an unresolved dispute with Eon which was never resolved prior to the assignment of the alleged debt. Eon refused to engage with me on the phone as I could not confirm the account details.

 4. Pursuant to OFGEM code of back billing rules the alleged charges are now over 12 months old and relate to charges which have not been billed correctly by Eon, on the basis they are estimated, and are therefore prevented from charging.

5. Paragraph 2 of the POC refers to a failure to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence that any such agreement was in place, and the defendant disputes ever entering into any agreement with EON.

6. The claimant has produced a letter in evidence that the alleged debt has been legally assigned to them. The authenticity of this letter is questionable as it is not on Eon letter headed paper and the font and font size is the same as that used in letters from Overdales, but not the same as that used on other correspondence from Eon

7. Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a written agreement.

              1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be available at the hearing.

With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to: -
        a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement.  
        c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

The Claimant has stated they may request the court accept a contract existed based on other evidence available, in the absence of any signed contract, but has failed to disclose to the debtor, any evidence that a contract was ever entered into.

8. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

9. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

[dx100uk]

if you were not resident for the whole time of the bills they have raised the claim for, then a slightly dodgy NOA from the OC is immaterial. 

FWIW: the debt buyer is quite entitled to send a mock NOA from the OC as well as one from themselves in the same env. its not worth arguing over as you say you dont owe the debt anyway, and have never had an account with EON.

[edjama]

Ok, Thank you. so if I remove point 6 the rest is good to go?

[dx100uk]

looks ok to me but let @Andyorch check it over 

not due til/by 4pm monday 6th

[AndyOrch]

Particulars of Claim:-

1. The claim is for the sum of £552.43 due by the defendant under a E.on Energy Solutions Limited account with an account reference of (12 digits).

2. The defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement.

3. The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 26-08-22, notice of which has been given to the defendant.

4. The claim includes statutory interest under s.69 of the county courts act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue of these proceedings in the sum of £44.19

The clamant claims the sum of £596.61

What is the total value of the claim? 736.61

 

Defence

1. I the Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

2. The claimants claim is denied. I have never entered into an account with Eon. When I moved into the property in question I set up an account with Scottish Power. Following that I received a final bill from Eon for a period prior to me moving into the property. Therefore the bill in question relates to a period I was not the occupier of the property.

3. Paragraph 2 of the POC refers to a failure to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence that any such agreement was in place, again it is denied as I have never held an account with Eon.

4. There was and still remains an unresolved dispute with Eon which was never resolved prior to the assignment of the alleged debt. Eon refused to engage with me on the phone as I could not confirm the account details having never held an account..

5. Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a written agreement.

  1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be available at the hearing.

With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to: -
   a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement.  
   c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

The Claimant has stated they may request the court accept a contract existed based on other evidence available, in the absence of any signed contract, but has failed to disclose to the debtor, any evidence that a contract was ever entered into.

6. Pursuant to OFGEM code of back billing rules the alleged charges are now over 12 months old and relate to charges which have not been billed correctly by Eon, on the basis they are estimated, and are therefore prevented from charging.

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

8. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

[edjama]

Thank you all very much. Defence submitted. Will update as and when.

[AndyOrch]

[edjama]

My partner received the following via email this morning. Does it require a response? Or is it best ignored?

 

"We confirm receipt of your Defence in which you allege that you did not enter into the Agreement with E.on Energy Solutions Limited and state that the 'bill in question relates to a period I was not the occupier of the property.'

I am willing to investigate any dispute you have on this account if full details and photocopies of any supporting documentation is provided. Please provide evidence to substantiate your allegations to help fully investigate your dispute. This can include a tenancy agreement which evidences when you moved into the property.

We sent you numerous letters in an attempt to resolve this matter prior to the issue of the Claim but none were responded to including our Letter of Claim. You did not make a request for information prior to this matter being issued in the Courts nor notify us of any dispute.

Settlement Proposal

Notwithstanding the above, our Client is aware of the likely costs that will be incurred if the matter proceeds further, which would be added to the outstanding debt. Our Client is willing to settle this account for either:

1. A lump sum payment of £500.00 in full and final settlement of the Claim; or
2. The sum of £700.00 to be paid in monthly instalments of £350.00

This offer is open until 20 November 2023.

If a settlement is reached, upon receipt of cleared funds, I will notify the Court that the Claim has been settled and our client will close their account."

 

[dx100uk]

if you look at virtually any lowell claimform thread here you'll see the same type of letter from lowells is std for any speculative claim they raise.

dont respond, you've told them the basics of the dispute, thats all they need at this time, if they cant be bothered to investigate this thoroughly themselves, they certainly dont need your help. its for them to prove their claim not for you to disprove it.

in a way its a begging letter , as for their costs, they cant charge anything more than the sum on the claimform, they might well do as they always do, add anything they like to the fake balance that might or might not show on her credit file, but thats immaterial anyway.

 

[edjama]

Thanks, my understanding was that they needed to prove she lived there. Just wanted to triple check.

[dx100uk]

well whatever they need to prove they have to do so, but proving residency wont be one they would ever be able to do without her help, which is why you do not ever engage with them.

mores the point here, how did they get her email? you'll need to kill that before disclosures stage where you will be producing your proof of evidence , if they don't discontinue before then.

[AndyOrch]

14 hours ago, edjama said:

We sent you numerous letters in an attempt to resolve this matter prior to the issue of the Claim but none were responded to including our Letter of Claim. You did not make a request for information prior to this matter being issued in the Courts nor notify us of any dispute.

 

On 16/10/2023 at 10:10, edjama said:

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Possibly

Need to tread carefully here as the court will take a dim view of the above irrespective of the debt not being your partners. Yes it is for the claimant to prove their claim but its also for the defendant to cooperate before litigation was commenced.

Just a word of caution.

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Topic open