Article 50 Discussion

[tobyjugg2]

Oh for Gods sake

These idiots really are acting as though they do think we are just walking back into a British Empire

 

First thing they are sorting, well after confirming those pesky human rights will not even be getting a temporary toe through the door of Brexit Britain,

 

is sanctions on other countries

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-sanctions-idUKKBN1AH5FS

 

Hate to tell this egocentric bunch of prats

Nobody will notice

[unclebulgaria67]

Recent polling showed that older Brexiteers sre not bothered by consequences of Brexit. Most were quite willing to accept their children losing their jobs, if it meant that they obtained Brexit.

 

Brexiteer levels explained in this link.

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGPItZvWAAU2-mX?format=jpg

[determindator]

Just watching The Mash report BBC2 now. BWEXIT has been raised as an option:madgrin: It is British World Exit meaning we leave the world and become totally independent.

[Guest]

Just watching The Mash report BBC2 now. BWEXIT has been raised as an option:madgrin: It is British World Exit meaning we leave the world and become totally independent.

i had heard that before somewhere by the by, but thought it was just a mispronounciation

[tobyjugg2]

Just watching The Mash report BBC2 now. BWEXIT has been raised as an option:madgrin: It is British World Exit meaning we leave the world and become totally independent.

 

Nearly right,

The rest of the world will just ignore us and get on with progressing.

[unclebulgaria67]

This link is well worth looking at, if you want to understand complexities involved in Brexit.

 

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2017/07/31/watch-project-fear-to-project-reality-prof-michael-dougan-one-year-on-from-eu-referendum/

 

There is no chance in my opinion that Brexit will happen by April 2019.

[obiter dictum]

On a side note on the impact the exchange rate is having with rising prices on a personal level.

 

Regular travel form Belfast to Dublin, twice a week so save my euro in an old biscuit tin. Shocked to discover had 1800 euro so decided to cash them in. Knowing banks and Post Office screw you over went into my local Marks And Spencers foreign exchange.

 

Was offered 1.6 exchange rate. So in total to exchange my 1800 Euro into sterling was going to cost me. The total getting back just short of £1400

[tobyjugg2]

Interesting to hear May still prattling on about ending free movement being a red line, despite much of the rest of her party and most of the Labour party is saying 'we must have the EU workers including seasonal workers ...

 

I think few would argue that MASSIVELY reducing immigration was one of the major driving forces behind many of those voting Brexit

and I simply dont accept this was and is zenophobia at least in the majorities case - its just that people dont want those who have paid nothing into our system taking from it at everyone elses expense SO:

 

 

I have two major issues with the \UK governments stance and (lack of) action on this.

 

1.

The UK government could ALWAYS have deported ANY EU citizens who had been in the UK for more than 3 months without a job

SO Why didn't they?

and even now why do they STILL not do this perfectly legal and legitimate removal of jobless immigrants if they are so 'aware' of the peoples voice?

 

2.

Of course leaving the EU will do nothing for all to reduce the none EU immigrants.

So why has the UK government not already reduced the none EU migration if they are so listening to the voice of the people?

 

 

This is all aside from the simple fact that most senior politicians are saying immigration/free movement is likely to continue .

 

 

[Consumer dude]

I read that there are to be anti Brexit protests outside the Tory conference.

[honeybee13]

There's also a rally outside Parliament on 13th September for EU citizens in the UK and Brits living in Europe.

 

https://www.the3million.org.uk/

[tobyjugg2]

Arch Brexit lier Gove:

EU fishing boats can still operate in UK waters after Brexit, says Gove

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/03/eu-fishing-boats-can-still-operate-in-uk-waters-after-brexit-says-gove?

 

 

"Environment secretary’s remarks to Danish industry leaders contradict his insistence that Britain ‘take back control’ after quitting EU common fisheries policy"

 

 

"In July, Gove said Britain was “taking back control” of its fisheries by departing from the EU common fisheries policy"

"also announced the UK’s withdrawal from the London fisheries convention, signed before the UK joined the EU"

 

 

Dont try to figure out which is true, Evil Wallice will just be lying as he always has and always will - to everybody.

Gove: Still waiting for that EXTRA £350 million a week for the NHS Gove you and your 'pal' Johnson promised.

 

So Brexit is Brexit, is Brexit but:

WITHOUT 'ending' immigration

WITHOUT protected fishing (per Gove who also says the opposite)

WITHOUT any reduced payments to the EU (just tariffs alone will cost far far more than our 'fees')

WITHOUT the Brexiters world trade deals (well, any that we would want anyway, let alone anything to match the EU trade)

WITHOUT free trade with the EU ( perhaps barely with WTO trade with the EU)

WITHOUT an extra 350 million a week to the NHS (quite the opposite)

 

mind you, they are working very very hard to get RID of those pesky profit reducing workers and peoples rights

 

To paraphrase a classic

You'll be sad,

'cause 1 out of 7 IS bad

[tobyjugg2]

Ok folks

Time for a review

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?460072-The-European-Union.....In-or-Out&p=4881741&viewfull=1#post4881741

 

(re)read some of these posts in the thread from that linked post and see how much is coming to pass - and more.

 

 

We should also review the links in the various EU referendum/Brexit threads and compare the opinions to the

Great repeal and its focus on removing rights

Already announced that the EU's human rights wont even be brought back to the UK

 

Just as Boris alluded in his linked pre-referendum de-spiegal interview where

"We don't need the European Union to tell us how many hours we can work, we don't need all this health and safety stuff."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...a-1047789.html

 

 

I freely admit that my coming to the opinion that we would be better off in the EU is proving to be quite a significant understatement, and the issues I saw at that time were barely the tip of the iceberg.

(Remember I was leaning toward Brexit being positive until I started to look deeper)

[Consumer dude]

The UK voted Brexit and people protest against the democratic vote. What am I missing ?.

[unclebulgaria67]

The UK voted Brexit and people protest against the democratic vote. What am I missing ?.

 

Democracy is never one vote and a decision is made which changes things forever. With a general election you can change the government every 4 or 5 years. Parliament can vote against a government in a vote of no confidence which can trigger an early election.

 

Brexit has not been implemented yet and there is time before March 2019 for another democratic vote to take place on the actual Brexit deal. If people accept the deal, the UK leaves the EU on the agreed terms for better or worse. If people reject the deal, the UK stays in the EU for better or worse.

 

Protest is necessary for people to voice their opinions as part of the continuing democratic process.

[tobyjugg2]

The UK voted Brexit and people protest against the democratic vote. What am I missing ?.

 

* The misinformation/disinformation and just plain lack of information on which many based their vote (on either side) means the population was certainly NOT properly informed.

 

* The difference between the in/out vote was tiny, inconclusive unfinished business (per Farage pre result specifications) and vastly less than the number who didnt vote for whatever reason, let alone those who might now think their vote was based on misinformation.

 

* The simple fact that the referendum was promised as a simple in/out, YET was sold as far from that (negotiating ploy for 'better' terms etc) even ignoring any rampant lies or 'errors' in the realities,

... and we are very clearly seeing the implementation is already nothing like that.

 

will that do for starters CD?

 

so - not only miss-sold, they aren't even implementing either the original or miss-sold versions, but something else entirely.

[tobyjugg2]

OD - remember this:

 

"I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. “That’s easy,” he replied. “When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice

 

Anthony Hilton

Evening Standard Reporter"

 

 

and the rumors about how Gove the Deceiver got back in ...

[tobyjugg2]

After reading the prior post, then perhaps consider listening to the following. Its only a little over 10 mins long, although it does seem far longer

 

[Consumer dude]

What prior post is being referred to here ?.

[determindator]

OD - remember this:

 

"I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. “That’s easy,” he replied. “When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice

 

Anthony Hilton

Evening Standard Reporter"

 

 

and the rumors about how Gove the Deceiver got back in ...

 

I think this is the post CD

[honeybee13]

Here's a medical research institute that's likely to be lost to another country, along with 1,000 jobs.

 

And then there are the banks and financial institutions talking about going to Frankfurt, Dublin, etc. My OH's company is talking about moving its head office to Paris so it can stay in Europe.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/08/top-uk-research-agencies-will-lose-out-in-brexit-relocation-of-eu-medicines-regulator

[tobyjugg2]

For those who aren't aware of the rumors regarding Gove's return

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/18/tories-refuse-to-deny-rupert-murdoch-role-in-michael-goves-cabinet-return

 

https://www.ft.com/content/74408ae0-eeb3-11e6-ba01-119a44939bb6

 

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/rupert-murdoch-order-desperate-theresa-13172440

[tobyjugg2]

Boris Johnson should be jailed over Brexit claims, says ex-David Davis aide

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/09/brexit-political-party-james-chapman-david-davis

 

"The most eye-catching tweet was clearly aimed at Johnson: “Let’s be honest, if we had an effective electoral law leading Brexiteers would now be in jail. #wheresmy350maweekboris.”"

 

# BrexitisNOTBrexit

 

 

 

 

and their Puppet master should have LOOOONG ago been banned from any involvement in any UK media.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/5bf423a0-937a-11e1-8ca8-00144feab49a

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/dec/19/rupert-murdoch-ive-never-asked-any-prime-minister-for-anything

 

https://www.ft.com/content/74408ae0-...1-119a44939bb6

 

# RueMurdoch

[tobyjugg2]

Britain says it is ready to progress talks on what it wants in Brexit (hard brexit with all the pies)

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-papers-idUKKBN1AS0ZD

 

 

while EU says they are ready to START negotiations when Britain is

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-negotiations-idUSKBN1AN13E

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/27/exclusive-eu-says-brexit-talks-could-delayed-uk-continues-stonewall/

 

 

 

While Rupert Murdoch's UK brexit politicians say no back door to EU just because they are making sure there is no front door for trade deals

(Handful of Tory politicians (plus Corbyn) are unanimous on this)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/13/hammond-and-fox-brexit-transition-would-not-be-way-to-remain

 

 

More independent politicians perhaps consider another vote and perhaps a new party is needed (even Vote Leave's chief is having doubts)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/14/chance-second-brexit-referendum-people-rethink

 

https://www.ft.com/content/530de0c6-7eae-11e7-ab01-a13271d1ee9c

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/12/david-miliband-calls-second-vote-on-brexit-deal-europe-britain

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-people-changed-minds-brexit-second-referendum-poll-finds-a7795591.html

[citizenB]

 

David Miliband calls for second referendum on Brexit deal to stop UK being 'driven off a cliff'

 

Former Foreign Secretary describes 2016 referendum that triggered Brexit as ‘unparalleled act of economic self-harm’

 

David Miliband has issued a call for politicians on all sides to fight back against the “worst consequences” of last year’s vote for Britain to leave the EU.

 

The former Labour Foreign Secretary described the outcome of the 2016 referendum as an “unparalleled act of economic self-harm”.

 

Writing in The Observer, he said the country should have the chance to vote on any Brexit deal in a second referendum, with a straight choice between remaining in the EU and the negotiated alternative

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/david-miliband-brexit-eu-referendum-labour-theresa-may-david-davis-boris-johnson-liam-fox-philip-a7890571.html

[tobyjugg2]

I think few with eyes and a mind would doubt that Johnson is a slimy self serving stain on the surface of the polluted pond of politics

 

or that Gove appears even worse as a treacherous backstabber who is knowingly in the pocket of Rupert Murdoch (many may not really know)

 

but how about David Davis?

 

"Brexit secretary supported banker Ian Hannam in court after accepting lucrative post at his company"

 

Davis criticised the Financial Services Authority in its pursuit of the City’s leading dealmaker, who was forced to leave his job with JP Morgan after being found guilty of “market abuse” and supported him in his appeal - which lost.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/12/david-davis-linked-to-city-trader-fined-for-insider-dealing

 

Davis listed his position at Hannams' company – for which he “anticipated remuneration of approximately £34,000 per annum” for six days work a year.