Article 50 Discussion

[unclebulgaria67]

Could I have a link please.

 

Link ?

 

This is based on reading various including reports from House of Lords committees who have looked at these issues.

 

The government have just started to set up large numbers of civil servants across London to run through all of the complex issues that would need to be dealt with. From memory there is something like 38,000 pages of parliamentary bills, statutory instruments and then there are the industry specific agreements that have been issued over many years.

 

One expert who i can't remember his name predicted that it would take at least 7 years and probably over 10 years for any Brexit to be completed.

 

I still think Brexit is not certain and may well be subject to an election or another referendum, which might put a stop to it. Theresa May is right to pursue Brexit per the referendum result, but she knows it will be very difficult to achieve.

[Guest]

uk explores 'free trade' with china. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36877573

 

ok, but that wld prob involve free movement of workers between. as it wld with any free trade agreement with any country/bloc! not forgetting continued usual immigration from countries outside of the eu thats not affected by eu exit. so much for the inherent immigration vote...

[dannykrinkles2016]

I think I voted the right choice and the choice that won (out) ie not to stay in the European Union.

 

The PM dose not have to use article 50 as it says we can use our own constitution to override any opposition to brexit.

 

The people have spoken let Democracy rule cus unionism is not in its own right democratic but bureaucratic.

 

And the queen can still dissolve parliament if she wishes and then we will be out of the EU as there is no elected members that can be an MEP

 

bankers4me

[obiter dictum]

This matter as to any legality on implementing Article 50 with our own uncodified constitution is being put before the High Court in October. It is only right in my opinion Parliament has the final say being the supreme legislature, not the current rulling Executive. Anything else will be contrary to democracy and our own constitution

[dannykrinkles2016]

I think the courts should be saying Well done Borris and David you acted in a democratic way and now It is lawful under our constitution and eu law to say we are now out of the EU.

 

 

The people have spoken ladies and gentleman

 

bankers4me

[Guest]

I think I voted the right choice and the choice that won (out) ie not to stay in the European Union.

 

on what credible basis do you think that you made 'the right choice'?

[dannykrinkles2016]

This is what I like about Democracy I can choose I dont have to do anything

 

bankers4me

[obiter dictum]

Democracy in Britain doesn’t mean majority rule. It’s not the tyranny of the majority or the tyranny of the mob … it’s the representatives of the people, not the people themselves, who vote for them.

 

Government of the people, by the people, for the people

 

The referendum was only advisory. It has not relevance to our own constitution or legislature. It was nothng but a giant opinion poll on the day. That is why Parliament must decide

Edited July 24, 2016 by obiter dictum

[dannykrinkles2016]

Government of the people, by the people, for the people

 

 

I whole heartily agree that guy was a good speaker you no.

 

even no he was a labour pm

 

bankers4me

[unclebulgaria67]

I think this needs to be left for legal and constitutional experts to deal with.

 

My take on it is that the UK does not have a written constutuition as such, but has a parliament that passes bills that make up the constituition. Part of the UK constituition will be all of the EU bills that have been passed by UK parliament since 1975, including the Lisbon treaty.

 

I believe article 50 was part of the Lisbon treaty and is the official way for the UK to leave the EU. Neither the Lisbon bill or the referendum bill confered any rights on any UK Prime Minister to use Royal Prorogative to trigger article 50. Therefore to trigger article 50 needs the consent of parliament in a bill, which would authorise the Prime Minister. If this was not the case, any Prime Minister could have at any time just triggered article 50 without any parliamentary vote or binding referendum.

[obiter dictum]

Government of the people, by the people, for the people

 

I whole heartily agree that guy was a good speaker you no. even no he was a labour pm

 

bankers4me

 

It happened to be the President of the United States, Abraham Lincoln who gave that speech at the Gettysburg Address. Not any British Labour politician

[determindator]

Treasury Committee report

 

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/treasury-committee/news-parliament-2015/eu-referendum-competition-in-banking-chairs-statement-16-17/

[obiter dictum]

Membership of the EU or not will not make one iota of difference with personal banking in the UK

 

We all know what happens with Private banks, even Mutual building societies that became banks. They just get taken over by the big boys then liquidated under the parent company brand.

 

Bradford and Bingley closed by Santander/Abbey National

Woolwich taken over and closed by Barclays

 

Halifax is now owned by Bank of Scotland and part of the Lloyds/TSB group

Sainsbury's Bank are part of the Lloyds TSB Group

 

Just like the UK Energy and broadband market. It will eventually be controlled by a handful or big business in nothing more than a Cartel.

[citizenB]

Membership of the EU or not will not make one iota of difference with personal banking in the UK

 

We all know what happens with Private banks, even Mutual building societies that became banks. They just get taken over by the big boys then liquidated under the parent company brand.

 

Bradford and Bingley closed by Santander/Abbey National

Woolwich taken over and closed by Barclays

 

Halifax is now owned by Bank of Scotland and part of the Lloyds/TSB group

Sainsbury's Bank are part of the Lloyds TSB Group

 

Just like the UK Energy and broadband market. It will eventually be controlled by a handful or big business in nothing more than a Cartel.

 

 

Banks should be made smaller - currently they are too large which is why governments panic and prop them up with Tax payer cash. Make them smaller and they can then be allowed to fail.

[dannykrinkles2016]

During the referred speech I was talking about he said a few things that brung him to my attention he said And that is that he got a big applause from all sides for stepping downand he showed every one his P45.

 

Je actually ot a war crime tribunal recently (credit where credit is due)

 

 

bankersme

[dannykrinkles2016]

I shouldnt of responded im tired sorry guys

[determindator]

I did wonder b4me. When you caught up on shut eye please expand.

[citizenB]

This is priceless !!

 

Man who wrote Article 50 says it was never supposed to be used

 

A former Italian premier has claimed that Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, which, if triggered, would initiate Britain’s exit from the EU, was designed not for actual employment but as a deterrent - and he should know, he wrote the thing.

 

"I wrote Article 50, so I know it well," he told a conference in Rome last week.

"My intention was that it should be a classic safety valve that was there, but never used. It is like having a fire extinguisher that should never have to be used. Instead, the fire happened."

 

So why write the darn thing in the first place ?

[obiter dictum]

A former Italian premier has claimed???

 

More jornalistic licence in the actual headline??

[citizenB]

A former Italian premier has claimed???

 

More jornalistic licence in the actual headline??

 

 

 

By all accounts, the "former Italian premier" actually wrote the Treaty !

[fletch70]

Banks should be made smaller - currently they are too large which is why governments panic and prop them up with Tax payer cash. Make them smaller and they can then be allowed to fail.

 

Thing is it was the government that allowed the merger of Natwest and RBS as well as the HBOS LTSB merger

 

Governments are IMO inherently corrupt and favour capitalism above all else , but you all know I am no fan of rampant capitalism - look how it worked for BHS

[fletch70]

I think the courts should be saying Well done Borris and David you acted in a democratic way and now It is lawful under our constitution and eu law to say we are now out of the EU.

 

 

The people have spoken ladies and gentleman

 

bankers4me

 

We are not out of the EU and wont be for at least 2 years -if ever

 

It still makes me sick to my stomach that people voted out , many without actually thinking of the potential consequences

[Guest]

just some info

re art 50

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

 

the minister appointed by the eu to deal with the exit

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/27/eu-appoints-former-french-minister-who-blames-britain-for-losing/

[Guest]

... I dont have to do anything

 

bankers4me

thats a shame. i had thought that democracy, fought for over the years, wld involve voters actually considering what they are voting for

[silverfox1961]

thats a shame. i had thought that democracy, fought for over the years, wld involve voters actually considering what they are voting for

 

I did and I'm sure so did the majority of people. This wasn't an easy decision for me either but in the end, I voted with my head, not my heart.

 

Notice how things have gone quiet in London? I haven't heard of any demonstrations recently. Have you?

 

By allowing us to have a free vote is democracy in action. It just needs the Government to initiate the majorities wishes