The European Union.....In or Out?

[tobyjugg2]

Silverfox

 

The UK would still have to pay into the EU after Brexit, to have full tarriff free access to their market.

 

Norway pays into the EU.

 

Yes the amount paid in may be less, but it is not known exactly how much it would be.

 

Any saving might well be small in comparison to the higher interest on UK government debt. There has been a warning by the IMF and rating agencies that UK faces higher interest rates on debt after Brexit.

 

and I dont see how the EU would continue paying the rebate to a non-member on renegotiation as it is a point of conflict with EU 'members' as it is.

So the negotiations would almost certainly be starting from a base 'here is your actual fee - the rebate was for you as a member', and breath a sigh of relief that that area of EU member contention was gone.

and of course the poorer in the UK loosing the benefits of that rebate whatever happens,

I really cant see the Tories, or even Labour replacing that rebate value to the poor areas.

[tobyjugg2]

Sure a number of the people who go on the daily politics read these threads. Heard a few things on there that are almost verbatim what has been posted here long before the program LOL

[Consumer dude]

Boris is in trouble now for daring to use the name of Hitler..

[tobyjugg2]

Boris is in trouble now for daring to use the name of Hitler..

 

why?

Seems appropriate from a tin-pot Churchill wannabe (and NO chance)

 

Seems the least of his bull droppings

Probably needs to divert attention from the real offensive crap he is spouting

[mikeymack2002]

What has the ECHR ever done for us? If you want to smile about this for a moment then please see here >> http://rightsinfo.org/patrick-stewart-just-made-hilarious-video-human-rights-serious-message/ This is a comic sketch by Sir Patrick Stewart (Captain Picard Startrek)

[tobyjugg2]

Just heard part of Sammy Wilson (DUP) speech on the EU on BBC parliament on the government EU referendum leaflet from 9th may

Showing On BBC parliament at the moment.

 

Sorry haven't got time to find a link. Packing for a break.

 

 

 

Well worth a listen.

[tobyjugg2]

its in amongst this

Quite a few good speeches - if the outers were this good generally, they would be clearly winning in the polls

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07cx6qv/westminster-hall-10052016

[unclebulgaria67]

Don't go by Opinion polls. Remember the last neck/neck election, where the Tories won by 7% over Labour.

 

Given the Brexiters will be very keen on voting and many on the remain or undecided side are less motivated to vote, i reckon that the 'leave' side are probably at least 5% ahead. Based on what i hear, i think the current position is 45% leave, 40% remain and 15% undecided.

 

The remain campaign must start to put forward a positive case, so the 15% undecideds are motivated to vote, otherwise Cameron will be out of office, with Boris as PM by September negotiating exit terms.

[tobyjugg2]

Don't go by Opinion polls. Remember the last neck/neck election, where the Tories won by 7% over Labour.

 

Given the Brexiters will be very keen on voting and many on the remain or undecided side are less motivated to vote, i reckon that the 'leave' side are probably at least 5% ahead. Based on what i hear, i think the current position is 45% leave, 40% remain and 15% undecided.

 

The remain campaign must start to put forward a positive case, so the 15% undecideds are motivated to vote, otherwise Cameron will be out of office, with Boris as PM by September negotiating exit terms.

 

 

I think thats far nearer the mark than any 'official' statement unclebulgaria.

 

Makes you wonder if any of the inners really do want an in result doesn't it?

[buckthorn]

A prophecy for today. forewarned is for armed

 

William Shakespeare, the poet and dramatist above all other

concerned with Britain’s nationhood, saw the possibility of

our people, through lack of vision and vigilance, and poor

leadership, becoming at some future time their own worst enemies:

This England never did, nor never shall,

Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror,

But if it first did help to wound itself.

(King John, V. vii. 112-14)

 

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without

their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished

by successive steps each disguised as having an economic purpose, but

which will eventually and irreversible lead to federation.”

Jean Monnet, founding father of the EU

 

The accuracy of the estimate in a briefing paper to the Heath Cabinet

(“Sovereignty and the European Communities’, 1971, FCO 30/1048) that

in “three decades” the point might be reached where the Community’s

development, “and with it the degeneration of the national institutions

which could opt for such a policy”, would make British withdrawal

“impracticable”, is confirmed by EU’s plan, announced at Laeken in 2001,

for a Constitution in 2004: from which moment the new European State

will have the right under international law of all accredited states to

prevent the secession of any of its provinces, Britain having become one.

[citizenB]

Don't go by Opinion polls. Remember the last neck/neck election, where the Tories won by 7% over Labour.

 

Given the Brexiters will be very keen on voting and many on the remain or undecided side are less motivated to vote, i reckon that the 'leave' side are probably at least 5% ahead. Based on what i hear, i think the current position is 45% leave, 40% remain and 15% undecided.

 

The remain campaign must start to put forward a positive case, so the 15% undecideds are motivated to vote, otherwise Cameron will be out of office, with Boris as PM by September negotiating exit terms.

 

I think thats far nearer the mark than any 'official' statement unclebulgaria.

 

Makes you wonder if any of the inners really do want an in result doesn't it?

 

 

I am very concerned that big business are trying to influence the voting of their employees by sending letters/emails to them pretty much on behalf of the remain side !

 

 

Whatever the outcome - I think the count has to be high for one side or the other, else this will continue to rumble on... pretty much like the Scottish Referendum.

[tobyjugg2]

One can only hope that the inners will be flooding the airwaves with irrefutable logic and facts in the couple weeks leading up to the vote.

 

The simple fact is that if the government cant define real reasons and solid justification (not Bullshine waffle 'we are safer in a refiormed eu') for our staying in the EU, then we should NOT stay in the EU and they should all be sacked for suggesting we should.

 

The money spent and the rules accepted from the EU should be solidly justifiable without any ifs buts maybes or assumptions. This is their DUTY as government whether there was a referendum upcoming or not.

 

IT IS the governments DUTY and responsibility to uniquivocably and irrefutably justify their stance and our membership at any time.

[obiter dictum]

I see Boris has yet again made a Monkey out of himself. He is the best thing ever for the remain campaign.

 

http://bbc.in/22ftSr3

[san_d]

I see Boris has yet again made a Monkey out of himself. He is the best thing ever for the remain campaign.

 

http://bbc.in/22ftSr3

 

Not quite. See what happened in the us of a with that Trump thing. Boris is playing the Trump card. He's appealing exactly to that demented electorate that wants that kind of gore.

[Conniff]

One can only hope that the inners will be flooding the airwaves with irrefutable logic and facts in the couple weeks leading up to the vote.

 

The simple fact is that if the government cant define real reasons and solid justification (not Bullshine waffle 'we are safer in a refiormed eu') for our staying in the EU, then we should NOT stay in the EU and they should all be sacked for suggesting we should.

 

The money spent and the rules accepted from the EU should be solidly justifiable without any ifs buts maybes or assumptions. This is their DUTY as government whether there was a referendum upcoming or not.

 

IT IS the governments DUTY and responsibility to uniquivocably and irrefutably justify their stance and our membership at any time.

 

There is only one irrefutable fact if the ins win, the EU will say 'the British people have given us a mandate to do whatever we please and change anything and everything the way we want, Britain will do what we say'.

[obiter dictum]

As opposed to Rupert Murdoch??

 

I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. “That’s easy,” he replied. “When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice

 

Anthony Hilton

Evening Standard Reporter

 

No matter what happens nothing will change for the man on the street, in or out

[tobyjugg2]

Hes made a complete ttip of himself regarding trade deals generally to.

 

The eu could sign trade deals with the US china and india tomorrow if it accepted the massive redudctions in consumer, worker and environmental protection the others want form their 'producers'.

 

They aren't and they shouldn't.

Why allow other countries that dont give a fair wage, dont care about pollution of the environment and dont care about banned ingredients as long as they make a buck - to wipe out our own companies

- as Boris would seem to want.

[Conniff]

The 25th June 2016 will be a day to remember, a day for street parties.

 

The day our trade with the rest of the world shot up, the day we stop migrants by the million coming here and increasing the crime levels and ripping off the real natives of this beautiful land.

 

If you want to try and argue that there are Brits working abroad, yes, but they are spread around 27 countries but we have 2.5 million just in this one country.

 

Terrorists will be able to be deported by 'our' courts and not cost us £millions running to then namby pambyies of the ECHR who are only in it for the money.

[Conniff]

As opposed to Rupert Murdoch??

 

I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. “That’s easy,” he replied. “When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice

 

Anthony Hilton

Evening Standard Reporter

 

No matter what happens nothing will change for the man on the street, in or out

 

Evening Standard?? Hardly a credible source of Reference.

[honeybee13]

The last time I read the Evening Standard, there was nothing wrong with it. From memory, Anthony Hilton is a good journalist.

 

HB

[obiter dictum]

Not only that, it is the words spoken by Rupert Murdoch in his response to the question that is the real issue, not the London Evening Standard

[Conniff]

As opposed to Rupert Murdoch??

 

I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. “That’s easy,” he replied. “When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice

 

Anthony Hilton

Evening Standard Reporter

 

No matter what happens nothing will change for the man on the street, in or out

 

Which is exactly the reason we 'must' leave and get back our sovereignty and our dignity.

[tobyjugg2]

Which is exactly the reason we 'must' leave and get back our sovereignty and our dignity.

 

best 'Vote In' promotion I've seen.

[Conniff]

best 'Vote In' promotion I've seen.

 

That makes absolutely no sense at all and has nothing to do with the context of my post repeated below

 

when I go to Brussels they take no notice

 

Which is exactly the reason we 'must' leave and get back our sovereignty and our dignity.

[buckthorn]

I am very concerned that big business are trying to influence the voting of their employees

by sending letters/emails to them pretty much on behalf of the remain side !

 

 

 

 

 

citizenB; I agree with you I am also very concerned that big

business are trying to influence the voting of their employees,

strange that no consideration seems to be given to small businesses.

 

There are 5.4 million small and medium sized (SMEs) businesses

in the UK. Together they employ 15.6 million people, which accounts

for 60% of all private sector employment. The combined annual

turnover of Britain’s SMEs is £1.8 trillion.

 

So to say SMEs are the backbone of our economy is an understatement.

It is within SMEs that our innovators and our entrepreneurs thrive,

driving our economy forward, and it is SMEs which will be the true

deliverers of long term economic recovery and stability.

 

Given their obvious importance, it is baffling as to why our Government

and the EU seem to be doing everything they can to make life difficult

for SMEs. The EU Commission estimates it costs SMEs as much as ten

times more per employee to administer regulations than it does for a

large company.

 

Because most of these regulations come from the EU, it is plain to see

that SMEs bear a disproportionate share of the costs of EU membership.

Only one in 10 British companies export to the EU, but all of them have to

comply with EU regulations.

 

Even if they are a terrible idea, they have no choice but to do so. Our

Government, which has to do what Brussels tells it to do, is incapable of

working in the interest of British SMEs to establish the best business

conditions possible.

 

What makes it worse is that the EU is fundamentally about helping big

business and legislates accordingly. Little thought is ever spared for ‘the little guy’.

 

Take VATMOSS for example. This is an appalling EU regulation which forces

small companies to register for VAT in every EU country where their product

might end up. This has decimated hi-tech and software micro-businesses in the

UK, with hundreds ceasing to trade since VATMOSS came into force in January 2015.

 

Even the EU acknowledges VATMOSS is a bad idea, yet they have done nothing to

fix it. Nor have they solved one of the main problems facing SMEs –late payment.

 

The UK has made some headway in legislating to stop the practice of big companies

holding smaller businesses to ransom by delaying payment, but it was over-ridden by

ineffective EU legislation that has still left as much as £255 billion being owed and

unpaid. Yet we are continually told EU membership is a good thing, a positive for SMEs.

 

“Project Fear” regularly comes out with dire warnings of how much we rely on EU

membership and how awful everything will be if we left. It is utter nonsense.

A businessman in Corby runs a very successful specialist small business-an electro-plating

company. He finds it more difficult to work with countries within the EU than he does

with countries out of it, Russia for example.

 

When asked if leaving the EU would hurt his business, he confidently speaks with optimism

about new opportunities and engaging with the wider world.

 

To fully engage with the world in terms of trade and business, we must be free to negotiate

deals and agreements on our own. China-we do not, since the EU has not got around to

negotiating one yet.

 

If we want to be a successful trading nation in the 21st century, there is only one choice-to leave the European Union.