Crash victims may have lain injured for three days

[citizenB]

Just saw this on the news...

 

An accident on the M9 was reported on Sunday 5th July - Police failed to investigate until yesterday, 8th July.

 

They found two people, one dead, one critically injured (and who has since been placed in an induced coma).

 

The couple had already been reported missing, so you would have thought the Police would have clicked when whoever reported the accident advised it was the same vehicle the missing couple had been using !!

 

 

A dead man and a critically injured woman were found in a crashed car three days after the accident was reported to police, it has emerged.

 

Driver Mr Yuill was pronounced dead at the scene, while Ms Bell was taken to the Queen Elizabeth University Hospital in Glasgow, where she is in a critical condition.

 

The Police Investigations and Review Commissioner is to investigate, focusing on the call made to police on Sunday. A separate police investigation into the crash itself is on-going.

 

 

 

 

Full story HERE

 

 

 

 

[JoeyJoeC]

Why did the person who reported it not stop to help? I thought that was the law.

[BazzaS]

Why did the person who reported it not stop to help? I thought that was the law.

 

Not if they weren't involved in the accident (when they would be obliged to stop) or were under a specific duty of care to help.

There is no general legal obligation on the general public to stop and help regardless of any moral obligation.

[Astronaughtwannabe]

If you're passing a vehicle and you see it leave the road in your mirror, bearing in mind this appears to have happened on a motorway, by the time you've stopped, you're a good way down the road. Maybe the only feasible option for that driver was to dial it in?

[JoeyJoeC]

Im quite sure you're suppose to stop if you're the only one there. Ill check the highway code again.

[zumbanikki]

Im quite sure you're suppose to stop if you're the only one there. Ill check the highway code again.

 

 

but the highway code isn't the law

[Astronaughtwannabe]

Try section 170 under the Road a Traffic Act (IiRC)

 

You'll find the legal obligation is on the drivers involvement in a collision, including owing to the presence of their vehicle etc.

 

The moral obligation is of course probably written in the bible somewhere (try 'A' for accident?)

[SabreSheep]

First rules of First Aid

 

Danger

Responce

Airway

Breathing

Circulation

 

In this case due to the distance between the witness and the accident and the environment being a motorway the first hurdle is Danger. Make the area safe. On a motorway the members of the public cannot do that safely and therefore put themselves and others at risk attempting to do so. Dialing 999 in this case is preferable vs adding to the body count.

[scaniaman]

Details of this crash are being kept very quiet for now, for obvious reasons.

Consider that the car went down an embankment--it is unlikely to be seen by a car driver passing bye---it is more likely to have noticed by an HGV or bus driver who could not safely stop at the scene.

So much for this Scottish government amalgamating all police forces and using call centres manned by non police officers.

As stated on another website " Saving money is more important than saving lives".

[obiter dictum]

As BazzaS has stated their is no statutory duty of care on one person to help another when identifying an individual in distress. That includes the police. The only exception will be people such as doctors

 

Doctors due to their professional standing and a unique "Special relationship" with their patient have a specific obligations to make sure as an example you are not allergic to penicillin before administering antibiotics under a duty of care. Failure can then lead to a charge of Gross Negligence

[scaniaman]

Tragically, the young woman passed away this morning. Everyone, not least her family, must be thinking "What if she had been found last Sunday"---think she would have survived???

Heads need to roll over this tragic affair----but not some numpty in a call centre!!!

Wonder what expert use of the English language will be spouted in order that those responsible can cover their back's???????

NOTE:- Sturgeon is VERY quiet and not seen on the media giving her condolences.

"Duty of Care"--bollocks. Any human being with an ounce of decency in their body would render assistance to another person in difficulties---or is that another thing modern attitudes put out the window????

[obiter dictum]

Not modern at all

 

Donoghue v Stevenson 1932 defined Duty of care and negligence from one person to another

[citizenB]

 

Lamara Bell, who lay undiscovered while seriously injured next to her dead boyfriend in their car for three days after Police Scotland failed to respond to a report of a motorway crash, has died.

 

It has since emerged that a call was made to police later on the morning of the crash reporting that the couple’s blue Renault Clio had left the road on the M9 southbound near junction nine at Bannockburn. The report was not entered into police systems, a failure that was immediately referred to Scotland’s police investigations and review commissioner (PIRC), which has already begun its investigation.

 

 

Full story HERE

 

 

 

 

On Friday, the head of Police Scotland, Chief Constable Sir Stephen House, admitted that the police had “failed both families” and said he could understand the level of concern being raised about the catastrophic error.

 

Unbelievable !!

[citizenB]

 

“For reasons yet to be established this call was not entered on to our police systems and not actioned out to operational teams in the Stirling area to respond and trace the vehicle.”

However, serious doubts have been raised about whether the failure is limited to one individual error or was the result of far deeper and more systemic problems within Police Scotland, which was centralised into a single force in 2013 and has since seen severe cuts in control room staff.

 

Scottish Labour’s justice spokeswoman, Elaine Murray, said Bell’s death reinforced the need for an inquiry that looks “not just at what went wrong in this specific case, but also assess wider issues like the impact of cuts to services on the ability of the police do their job properly”.

 

 

Anwar, who is currently representing the family of Sheku Bayoh, a Sierra Leonean man who died in police custody in May, added: “The concern that I would have, although I cannot speak on behalf of the families, is whether Stephen House’s indifference to cutbacks to call-handling service and the centralisation of the system has deprived the victims of their right to life.

 

“That’s a very serious question that has to be looked into, whether Police Scotland acted with deliberate indifference or gross negligence in delaying the search. Then I think Police Scotland and the chief constable faces the biggest crisis since its birth.”

 

 

 

It would also appear that the department set up to investigate this type of incident "PIRC" have effectively been neutered so they cant do their job properly.

[DragonFly1967]

Playing Devil's advocate for a moment, and I stress that the first part is supposition ONLY!...

 

Whilst I find it impossible to condone the fact (as reported at least) that the call was not entered onto the system, there could well be very good reasons that officers were not tasked to the call.

 

It could well be that the single caller didn't really know where they were. One of the joys of mobile phones I'm afraid is that an accurate location is not automatically given, as it would be with a landline or one of the roadside SOS boxes. So unless a specific (or at least a good general) location could be given to the call handler, what exactly are they supposed to enter onto the call log, even if one was created.

 

How many of us could honestly say that they know exactly where they are at all times when driving on a motorway? Now, I'm not talking about knowing roughly where you are, but exactly!

 

Bearing in mind that the vehicle had rolled down an embankment, as someone else pointed out, the only real way possible to spot the vehicle would be from an HGV and the police don't have too many of those. Or for officers (remembering that an accurate location may not have been passed to the call handler) to walk stretches of the M9, possibly in both directions, trying to find the vehicle. Which I'd say would be an almost impossible task.

 

I don't dispute that someone screwed up big time, but it might not be entirely the fault of the call handler.

 

--

 

Police Scotland aren't alone in having non police officers as call handlers and dispatchers in their call centres. Most police forces in the UK use civilian staff in these roles. There are usually, at most 2 (more usually 1) police officers, who would be an inspector, in the control room and/or call centre.

 

--

 

As for someone stating that the police do not have a "duty of care" to act when they see someone in distress, I'm afraid that that is complete poppycock. Part of being a police officer is to protect & preserve life. So failing to act in a situation such as this would land them in exceedingly hot water, and besides, no police officer would want this on their conscience.

[mikeymack2002]

A tragedy to say the least. there are markers for accuracy every 100m on a motorway on the nearside edge and on all light gantries too. All someone had to do was note this number call it in and maybe just maybe 2 people would be alive today.

 

 

As a former courier I often stopped on the hard shoulder to render assistance, wrong I know but many times it was needed, too many people do not care about fellow people sad to say but true.

 

 

In Europe it is required that you stop to offer aid...... So this should be the same here, but its to PC to do so nowadays....

 

 

Twice in five years I have stopped to help in an accident and been there for those injured, cars passing by and slowing down and driving on without offering help shame on them.

 

 

BTW I ride a mobility scooter now... I have done so for 5 years. If I can do this so can others.... One of my good friends was due to an RTC my help saved his life we often talk about the drive pasts how no one wants to stop and help. Lets change this attitude!!!! Report it even if someone has already they (the Police) will always acknowledge they are aware of it if not they take details....

[2ltr16valve]

I really do not agree with the comments that "police could not walk the motorway" etc !!

 

Blimey they have helicopters ! And search and rescue back up, it really would not have taken many brain cells to implement

 

Such a sad loss and so unnessacsry

[DragonFly1967]

I did not say that they "couldn't do it", what I said was that it would be "an almost impossible task". The M9 in the Stirling area is approximately 13 miles (32 miles overall). But taking just the Stirling area, and presuming that, for whatever reason, a precise location was not given by the caller, that could potentially mean that 26 miles of carriageway would have to be walked.

 

As for the helicopter. As the vehicle was under tree cover, it's doubtful that they would have been able to see it from a helicopter and FLIR wouldn't have picked it up either.

[2ltr16valve]

I did not say that they "couldn't do it", what I said was that it would be "an almost impossible task". The M9 in the Stirling area is approximately 13 miles (32 miles overall). But taking just the Stirling area, and presuming that, for whatever reason, a precise location was not given by the caller, that could potentially mean that 26 miles of carriageway would have to be walked.

 

As for the helicopter. As the vehicle was under tree cover, it's doubtful that they would have been able to see it from a helicopter and FLIR wouldn't have picked it up either.

 

 

Hi dragon fly

 

It wasn't a attack at you pal. Just an observation.

 

Surely FLIR would have picked up the heat signature of the engine ? It can pick out body's hiding under cover.

 

Just another question that needs too be raised I think.

[mikeymack2002]

This is why helicopters used by the Police are fitted with cameras and have heat seeking capabilities the search would take just moments to do.... FLIR in an experienced hand is invaluable....

[DragonFly1967]

Even FLIR has its limitations unfortunately. Dense tree cover is something that it cannot penetrate.

[Myfamily]

Very sad story - but one thing I noticed is that the call was made to 101 (non emergency), If I had seen a car off the road like that I would have made that call to 999 - wouldn't you? I a not in any way blaming who ever reported it, but that is the non emergency number and I maybe their reporting system is different.

[scaniaman]

All the above theories went out the window as on tonight's news it stated the initial call was made by a farmer, not a passing motorist. This in itself raises other questions re assistance!!!

I think the accident investigators may throw up some interesting info as to why injuries were so severe / instant death caused by a relatively minor incident.

Sturgeon was interviewed and stated she had every confidence in the CC----but who do the mis guided Scottish public now have confidence in????????