Bristol and Wessex Water & Charging order, they say they want paying now..

[dx100uk]

old and new threads merged

 

 

please refrain from starting new threads

on a subject whereby you already have one running.

 

 

having read the full thread

I believe this issue has already been answered several times?

 

 

dx

[chiefmegawatty]

I did ask the same question on the end of the original thread but nobody responded.

Thats's why I began a new thread to get a response and it worked.

Anyway, thanks for answering my question.

I always assumed that the debt could be recovered from any income and I'm surprised

that pensions are exempt.

[dx100uk]

we'll await the next computer generated copy of the same letter you get every other month

 

and we'll prepare the answers to your questions ready too.

 

forget about the debt g

et on with your life

theres nowt they can do to you.

 

or as advised in almost the very first post

 

you could start paying it off.

 

or

ask the mrs too.

 

dx

[chiefmegawatty]

OK thanks dx for your reply. I get a threatening letter from Bristol and Wessex Water about once per year.

 

Yes I could pay it off. However there is a complicated problem.

 

My Mrs disappeared over three years ago and I haven't seen her since.

 

She recently served a divorce petition against me and I am awaiting the outcome.

 

Now if I was to pay off the debt, that would give my Mrs more money when the assets are split.

 

You seem to talk down to me which gives me the impression that you think I am a brain dead thick person.

 

You might be wrong.

[dx100uk]

you undoubtedly have and are having much to deal with

 

however, the idea of my posts and all the others here is

'get on with the more important aspects of your life.'

 

the CO and its 'payments' and 'threat-o-grams' are nothing.

 

doesn't matter what we think of each other

CAG is here to help regardless.

 

and that certainly doesn't stop me or anyone else [ I hope ] from doing so

 

you could be my worst enemy or the biggest pain

 

I don't care - i'll help.

 

chin up.

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

Thread moved to the correct forum......

[chiefmegawatty]

I carried out some legal research today and discovered that you can have an attachment to earnings

taken from an occupational pension but not from state pension.

 

Therefore the charge order reminder letters I receive are not threatograms after all.

 

I am living purely on an occupational pension and could therefore be forced into an attachment to earnings by the court.

 

However, I am confused how the law works.

 

Knowing that a creditor can apply for an attachment to earnings after obtaining a charge order,

why on earth didn't the creditor apply for an attachment to earnings prior to obtaining an charge order?

 

I thought the charge order secured the debt against the property until the property is sold.

 

Now if the creditor isn't prepared to wait until the property is sold

then surely they should have applied for an attachment to earnings in the first place.

[Eversir]

 

....

 

Knowing that a creditor can apply for an attachment to earnings after obtaining a charge order,

why on earth didn't the creditor apply for an attachment to earnings prior to obtaining an charge order?

 

 

I thought the charge order secured the debt against the property until the property is sold.

 

Now if the creditor isn't prepared to wait until the property is sold

then surely they should have applied for an attachment to earnings in the first place.

 

Not 100% certain on the position once the charging order has been obtained, but a creditor is entitled to various avenues of recovery once a judgement has been made. So for example, if bailiffs are unsuccessful (or only partially successful), the creditor would be entitled to recover the outstanding sum via a third party debt order, charging order, or both.

 

It might be they are trying to act "reasonably" and exhaust all other options before attempting a order of sale. If there are other ways you could pay back the debt, and you argued this at a subsequent hearing, the order of sale would likely be unsuccessful. Or at least suspended.

 

Have you thought about making payment(s) to at least try and bring the debt below the £1000 threshold? At least the threat of a forced sale wouldn't be looming over you (however small).

[chiefmegawatty]

I did offer to set up a repayment plan with Bristol & Wessex Water as long as they removed the charge order, but they refused.

There is absolutely no possibility of a forced sale for a debt of this size despite the

thresholds laid down by the law.

Last November I received a divorce petition from my wife's solicitor so now it would be completely pointless to pay the debt off.

Paying the debt off now would result in my wife receiving more money when the house is sold due to the divorce.

[chiefmegawatty]

I found the following on a legal advice website.

 

"If a debtor is required to pay an outstanding sum of money in instalments by the Court (an instalment order) and a charging order has also been made against the debtor’s property in relation to that sum, the charge cannot be enforced unless the debtor has defaulted in payments under the instalment order."

 

The CCJ against me never had an instalment order issued by the court.

Therefore Bristol & Wessex Water cannot enforce an instalment order that was never issued and therefore cannot possibly be in repayment default.

[chiefmegawatty]

When a creditor obtains a CCJ by default without the debtor's knowledge,

 

 

can the CCJ have repayment conditions when neither the creditor or the court are aware of the financial position of the debtor?

[dx100uk]

yes

 

 

tell us about the debt please

 

 

dx

[chiefmegawatty]

What [edited] has linked my latest thread and question to a previous non-ralated thread?

Edited March 4, 2015 by honeybee13
Language.

[dx100uk]

tell us about the debt

[chiefmegawatty]

When a court issues a CCJ without the knowledge of the debtor and with no information regarding the debtors financial circumstances, can the court attach repayment terms and conditions to the CCJ?

[dx100uk]

yes

 

 

dx

[chiefmegawatty]

OK thanks DX. How would a court decide how to set the level of repayment without any

information regarding the debtors income?

[dx100uk]

depends on lots of things

poss previous I&E's sent to them or the OC

or say a credit file printout.

 

 

anyway

whats this all about?

 

 

even if this were true that it is 'wrong'

it doesn't negate the CCJ..

 

 

dx

[chiefmegawatty]

OK thanks for your prompt reply dx.

 

What's this all about you ask.

 

Well my water supply company have a charge order against my house

and keep sending me red letters asking that I pay the debt.

 

I cannot afford to pay the debt as I am living on a small private pension.

 

The letter says they can take further enforcement if I fail to pay

and can obtain an attachment to my small private pension.

 

However, I discovered from legal advice that an attachment to earnings

or pension can only be obtained if there were repayment conditions on the original CCJ issued by the court.

 

 

I have never seen any paperwork regarding my CCJ that was issued back in 2010.

I never even realised that I had a CCJ until May 2011.

 

 

The CCJ was therefore issued by default without my knowledge.

I therefore wonder what income the court assume I have in order to set repayments.

 

 

You said that the court can apply repayment conditions without any knowledge of the debtors financial circumstances

. I find that very strange.

I have attended many criminal courts as an expert witness and every time the fines and conditions imposed by the Magistrate

were based upon the financial circumstances of the person being prosecuted.

 

 

The Magistrate demanded information about the financial circumstances of the defendant in order to issue repayment levels.

 

Failing to do this would cause the court to be liable for leaving a person living in serious poverty, and that is NOT allowed by law.

 

 

Now if you are correct that a County Court judge can enforce repayment terms and conditions on a CCJ without taking into account

the income of the debtor, then I assume that a CCJ is far more serious than a criminal conviction.

[dx100uk]

right so this is the Wessex water debacle you already have atleast one thread running on.

[dx100uk]

threads merged

for the 13th time by the looks of things.

 

looks like you answered your own question in post 98 previously

 

dx

[AndyOrch]

However, I discovered from legal advice that an attachment to earnings or pension can only be obtained if there were repayment conditions on the original CCJ issued by the court.

 

Incorrect...a default judgment would be forthwith...an AoE comes with it own I&E for you to complete and proposed mthly payment.

 

http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n056-eng.pdf

 

Andy

[chiefmegawatty]

Thanks for treating me like brain dead ****. I am seriously concerned over these issues.

[chiefmegawatty]

I have never received any I & E form so you are wrong. I have never received any paperwork regarding the CCJ that was issued in 2010.

Having never received any of these things, how could a court set repayment conditions?

[AndyOrch]

Better agree a repayment then Chief...there is no way around this.

 

Andy