Bristol and Wessex Water & Charging order, they say they want paying now..

[chiefmegawatty]

Being financially unable to pay back a charge order against my house

I have written the following letter to my water supply company requesting they apply for an order for sale to resolve the problem.

 

I realise that most people with a charge order would dread an Order For Sale but in my financial position I can't see any other way out.

 

I would rather be thrown out of my house soon rather than worry about it for decades.

 

I assume by asking the creditor to apply for an Order For Sale will overcome any court reluctance to grant one.

 

I also assume when a debtor askes to be punished then a court will punish on request.

 

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

I currently have a charge order placed against my house for water and sewerage arrears.

I am anxious to clear this as it adversely affects my credit rating and ability to obtain employment.

Living on a small private pension I am in no position to pay the charge order either by installments or a lump sum.

You wrote to me last year stating that you will take enforcement action unless I pay back the arrears.

 

I have therefore concluded that the only way to resolve this issue is for Bristol & Wessex Water to apply for an order for sale against my house.

Please advise regarding an order for sale so I can resolve this situation as soon as possible. I understand that an order for sale will eventually result in a repossession order that will allow me 28 days to vacate the property.

Please advise on your intended date of a court hearing in order to resolve this issue. I have started selling my personal posessions in order to vacate the property promptly after a reposession order has been issued.

 

 

 

 

[Old Cogger]

whatever next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ims21]

whatever next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Indeed.

 

Two threads merged for history and completeness

[chiefmegawatty]

Sorry Mike I don't understand your reply.

 

 

My plan WILL get rid of the charge order and give me peace of mind.

 

Why do you imply otherwise?

 

Hi IMS thanks for agreeing with Mike.

 

 

OK so how would you get rid of a charge order if you didn't have the money to do it?

 

 

Do you steal money to clear your debts?

 

 

I certainly don't.

 

What do you mean by "whatever next!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" ???

[steampowered]

You haven't thought this through. The course of action you are proposing is not wise. Please think rationally about this and put your own needs above any futile attempt to get revenge on the utility company. You need to understand a few points:

 

It is not the charging order that is affecting your ability to get credit/employment. It is the CCJ. It is the CCJ which goes on your credit record and it will stay there for 6 years regardless of what happens with the charging order. After 6 years the CCJ will drop off your record. An order for sale does not help you because it would not clean your credit record.

 

You should not worry about the prospect of having a charging order for decades. It honestly does not matter. Lots of people have charging orders against their property for a very long period of time. It simply means the creditor will get paid when the house is sold which could be decades from now. Having a charging order which sits there and does nothing is certainly much less stressful than having to find a new place to live with no money.

 

Asking for an order for sale is foolish. The reality is that if they do the sale, the house will probably be auctioned and you are unlikely to get the best possible price. If an order for sale is necessary you will become liable for their legal fees in addition to the debt. If you have decided to sell your house in order to pay back this debt, then you will achieve a better price through a private sale by marketing the house for sale through an estate agent in the normal way.

 

I am not sure on this point, but if it looks like you asked for the order for sale, I wonder if you would be classed as 'voluntary homeless'. If you fit into this category the local council will not help home you and they will not give you a council house (even if one is available in your area, which is very unlikely - due to housing shortages people are being kept in B&Bs for months). You should get out of your head any idea that the council will quickly find you a home and let you have a cushy life on benefits.

 

Personally, I think you are overreacting. You need to learn to accept that (1) you have a debt to this company, (2) you cannot afford the debt, (3) the debt is secured by a charging order and (4) the utility company will probably move you onto a pre-payment meter. There is nothing wrong with that and hundreds of thousands of people are in the same situation. They all manage to get on with their lives without trying to make themselves homeless. The most likely outcome is that the charging order will just sit there doing nothing, with the utility company getting paid when you decide to sell the house or when you pass away.

[Ganymede]

Excellent post.^^^^^^

 

I hope the OP takes it on board.

[Old Cogger]

Hence the comment!

[chiefmegawatty]

You haven't thought this through. The course of action you are proposing is not wise. Please think rationally about this and put your own needs above any futile attempt to get revenge on the utility company. You need to understand a few points:

 

It is not the charging order that is affecting your ability to get credit/employment. It is the CCJ. It is the CCJ which goes on your credit record and it will stay there for 6 years regardless of what happens with the charging order. After 6 years the CCJ will drop off your record. An order for sale does not help you because it would not clean your credit record.

 

This seems to imply that paying your debts is pointless. Therefore there must be something seriously wrong with the law. How on earth can a paid debt be as serious as an unpaid debt? Why does the law discourage you from paying your debts?

You should not worry about the prospect of having a charging order for decades. It honestly does not matter. Lots of people have charging orders against their property for a very long period of time. It simply means the creditor will get paid when the house is sold which could be decades from now. Having a charging order which sits there and does nothing is certainly much less stressful than having to find a new place to live with no money.

 

OK so why does my water supplier threaten me with enforcement if they have no intention to carry it out? There are no repayment terms on the CCJ or the charge order. Surely if my water supplier wait for decades for their money it won't be worth much in many decades.

 

 

Asking for an order for sale is foolish. The reality is that if they do the sale, the house will probably be auctioned and you are unlikely to get the best possible price. If an order for sale is necessary you will become liable for their legal fees in addition to the debt. If you have decided to sell your house in order to pay back this debt, then you will achieve a better price through a private sale by marketing the house for sale through an estate agent in the normal way.

 

The house is owned outright and in my name only. My wife left me over two years ago. I had a session with a solicitor regarding selling my house. The solicitor said that if I sell my house I will be in big trouble for selling my house with intention to deprive my absent wife of her half of the capital. However, if the water supplier force sell my house I cannot be held responsible for selling it to deprive my wife of her half. The blame would fall upon the water supplier and the court for ordering a sale without notifying my wife beforehand. The house is now worth about 250K and it will be interesting to see if the court order a sale for a debt of around £1,900.

 

I am not sure on this point, but if it looks like you asked for the order for sale, I wonder if you would be classed as 'voluntary homeless'. If you fit into this category the local council will not help home you and they will not give you a council house (even if one is available in your area, which is very unlikely - due to housing shortages people are being kept in B&Bs for months). You should get out of your head any idea that the council will quickly find you a home and let you have a cushy life on benefits.

I worked in well paid employment for 30 years, bought my house outright and have never claimed any benefits. However, I now seem to be punished by the system for doing so. If I had lived a cushy life on benefits I couldn't possibly have a charge order because I wouldn't own any property. Now if the court grant an order for sale I cannot see how requesting this can go against me. Orders for sale are granted to the creditor on application irrespective of the debtors opinion.

Personally, I think you are overreacting. You need to learn to accept that (1) you have a debt to this company, (2) you cannot afford the debt, (3) the debt is secured by a charging order and (4) the utility company will probably move you onto a pre-payment meter. There is nothing wrong with that and hundreds of thousands of people are in the same situation. They all manage to get on with their lives without trying to make themselves homeless. The most likely outcome is that the charging order will just sit there doing nothing, with the utility company getting paid when you decide to sell the house or when you pass away.

....

[f16]

I've been reading this thread for a while and trying to work out where your going with this. .... Because all advice is rejected.

 

So reading between the lines.

You can't sell the house on the open market because your wife would find out and you would have to pay her half.

 

But you think by the water co. selling the house you can get around this. "The blame would fall on the water supplier".......

[steampowered]

This seems to imply that paying your debts is pointless. Therefore there must be something seriously wrong with the law. How on earth can a paid debt be as serious as an unpaid debt? Why does the law discourage you from paying your debts?

It is a decision made by credit reference agencies. If a CCJ is awarded against you, the credit reference agencies will record that for 6 years (though it falls off if paid within the first 28 days). If you pay the debt after 28 days it will be marked 'satisfied', which is better than 'unsatisfied' I suppose, but the CCJ will still remain on your record.

OK so why does my water supplier threaten me with enforcement if they have no intention to carry it out? There are no repayment terms on the CCJ or the charge order. Surely if my water supplier wait for decades for their money it won't be worth much in many decades.

Its pretty common for people to be threatened with enforcement, which can mean many things. The reality is that they are very unlikely to get an order for sale over a small amount. The amount will however be accruing interest at the rate of 8%.

The house is owned outright and in my name only. My wife left me over two years ago. I had a session with a solicitor regarding selling my house. The solicitor said that if I sell my house I will be in big trouble for selling my house with intention to deprive my absent wife of her half of the capital. However, if the water supplier force sell my house I cannot be held responsible for selling it to deprive my wife of her half. The blame would fall upon the water supplier and the court for ordering a sale without notifying my wife beforehand. The house is now worth about 250K and it will be interesting to see if the court order a sale for a debt of around £1,900.

I'm not sure about that advice. I don't think its correct to say that there is any issue with selling the house. The point is that under the normal allocation of assets on divorce your wife would end up with half, so if it was sold she would be able to claim half the proceeds. There would only be an issue if you tried to hide the proceeds in an offshore bank account or something like that. Honestly I don't think you should be too concerned about this aspect. Selling the house because you need to pay off a debt is a perfectly justifiable position.

 

However I still take the view that a sale of your house would be an overreaction to a relatively small debt. It sounds like being in debt is a new experience for you and you are struggling to cope. You should take comfort from the fact that many hundreds of thousands people are in the same position, some through no fault of their own. I would suggest getting in touch with nationaldebtline to discuss your options.

I worked in well paid employment for 30 years, bought my house outright and have never claimed any benefits. However, I now seem to be punished by the system for doing so. If I had lived a cushy life on benefits I couldn't possibly have a charge order because I wouldn't own any property. Now if the court grant an order for sale I cannot see how requesting this can go against me. Orders for sale are granted to the creditor on application irrespective of the debtors opinion.

Requesting an order for sale is unwise because (1) you'll be liable for the legal costs caused by the application and (2) you won't be in control of the sale process, hence the house is likely to be sold for a lower price than you would be able to achieve if you sold the house through an estate agent in the normal way.

[chiefmegawatty]

Today I received a reply from my water supplier as shown below.

 

Thank you for your email received on 14 June 2014.

 

I understand you would like us to apply for an order for sale for your property. This is something Bristol Wessex Billing Services Ltd will not do. The charge secures the debt for us and we are happy to wait for the debt to be paid.

 

I can accept a very small payment to cover this debt. This could be as little as £1.00 a month. If you would like to set an arrangement please call me on the number below.

 

This is interesting because it proves that their threats of further enforcement are simply carried out to cause stress and worry as a kind of mental cruelty.

 

Also if I take up their offer of paying £1 per month,then paying off the charge order will take around 158 years !!!!

 

Surely this is madness. I know people are living longer but surely not that long.

 

In 158 years time I will be 215 years old !

 

I've been reading this thread for a while and trying to work out where your going with this. .... Because all advice is rejected.

 

So reading between the lines.

You can't sell the house on the open market because your wife would find out and you would have to pay her half.

 

But you think by the water co. selling the house you can get around this. "The blame would fall on the water supplier".......

 

Yes because my wife's divorce solicitor can't accuse me of selling the house under her nose if there is a forced sale and auction instigated by the water supplier and the courts. I can't possibly be accused of selling something I haven't sold. I have also recently discovered that charge orders shouldn't be issued if there is a marriage breakup or divorce underway.

[f16]

Today I received a reply from my water supplier as shown below.

 

Thank you for your email received on 14 June 2014.

 

I understand you would like us to apply for an order for sale for your property. This is something Bristol Wessex Billing Services Ltd will not do. The charge secures the debt for us and we are happy to wait for the debt to be paid.

 

I can accept a very small payment to cover this debt. This could be as little as £1.00 a month. If you would like to set an arrangement please call me on the number below.

 

This is interesting because it proves that their threats of further enforcement are simply carried out to cause stress and worry as a kind of mental cruelty.

Also if I take up their offer of paying £1 per month,then paying off the charge order will take around 158 years !!!!

Surely this is madness. I know people are living longer but surely not that long.

In 158 years time I will be 215 years old !

 

I doubt it...... You'll be dead and buried , but the Water co. will get their money then.

 

That's very kind of them. 25p per week is within any ones budget !!!

[f16]

Double Post

[steampowered]

I think you should just pay them the 1 a month they are looking for.

 

If you want to sell the house, you are still free to do so. There is no real reason why you can't sell property while divorce proceedings are going on. The fundamental point is that if you did sell, the ex-wife would generally be able to get half the sale proceeds. Most divorce disputes are exactly the opposite of your situation: generally, the partner who is left wants the house to be sold so that they can get their money, instead of the money sitting as equity in someone else's house which is totally useless to them. Of course the most conservative approach would be to agree what should happen with the wife's solicitor.

[chiefmegawatty]

I think you should just pay them the 1 a month they are looking for.

 

If you want to sell the house, you are still free to do so. There is no real reason why you can't sell property while divorce proceedings are going on. The fundamental point is that if you did sell, the ex-wife would generally be able to get half the sale proceeds. Most divorce disputes are exactly the opposite of your situation: generally, the partner who is left wants the house to be sold so that they can get their money, instead of the money sitting as equity in someone else's house which is totally useless to them. Of course the most conservative approach would be to agree what should happen with the wife's solicitor.

 

Hi Steampowered and thanks for your reply.

 

 

Maybe paying £1 per month would prevent my water supplier from applying for an order for sale however.

they have stated that they won't do that anyway.

Therefore what's the point of paying any instalments?

 

My absent wife hasn't registered an interest on the land registry regarding the house

 

so I could legally sell it and run away with all the money.

 

 

If I were to do this I assume I would have to hide all the money in cash so there would be no trace as to it's location.

 

 

Why my wife hasn't registered her interest on the land registry I just don't know.

 

 

A very strange an unusual situation indeed.

[steampowered]

Hi Steampowered and thanks for your reply. Maybe paying £1 per month would prevent my water supplier from applying for an order for sale however. they have stated that they won't do that anyway. Therefore what's the point of paying any instalments?

Stops them chasing you further.

 

My absent wife hasn't registered an interest on the land registry regarding the house

so I could legally sell it and run away with all the money. If I were to do this I assume I would have to hide all the money in cash so there would be no trace as to it's location. Why my wife hasn't registered her interest on the land registry I just don't know. A very strange an unusual situation indeed.

This is the bit that could get you into trouble if she goes ahead with asking the court to make an order about your respective assets. Not the actual selling of the house, the hiding of the money.

[chiefmegawatty]

Stops them chasing you further.

 

This is the bit that could get you into trouble if she goes ahead with asking the court to make an order about your respective assets. Not the actual selling of the house, the hiding of the money.

 

Yes indeed and should that happen I could claim that I had spent all the money on wine, women and song.

No court can freeze cash assets if the location of the cash is unknown. I know that a court can freeze a bank account when assets are in the account. However if the account contains little or no money the court can't really do anything.

[steampowered]

Yes indeed and should that happen I could claim that I had spent all the money on wine, women and song.

No court can freeze cash assets if the location of the cash is unknown. I know that a court can freeze a bank account when assets are in the account. However if the account contains little or no money the court can't really do anything.

Worst case scenario is that the court makes an order for you to disclose information about where the money went, and then jails you for contempt of court when you fail to comply.

[chiefmegawatty]

Worst case scenario is that the court makes an order for you to disclose information about where the money went, and then jails you for contempt of court when you fail to comply.

 

The court has to prove I am guilty and not my job to prove my innocence. Saying I spent the money on wine, women and song is disclosing where the money went. The court would then have to prove that I was hiding the money. How could the court prove I was hiding money when they have no evidence at all?

[steampowered]

The court has to prove I am guilty and not my job to prove my innocence. Saying I spent the money on wine, women and song is disclosing where the money went. The court would then have to prove that I was hiding the money. How could the court prove I was hiding money when they have no evidence at all?

You'd have to disclose bank statements and so on. The English legal system has very strong tools to require disclosure of evidence before any decision is made about guilt.

[chiefmegawatty]

You'd have to disclose bank statements and so on. The English legal system has very strong tools to require disclosure of evidence before any decision is made about guilt.

 

Yes I agree with you.

 

 

However, if the money has been drawn out of the bank and spent in cash then the court is stuffed.

 

Once it's spent and gone then it's spent and gone and that's that.

 

This is why the Government want a cashless society so they can track all transactions.

[chiefmegawatty]

I have just received another threat letter from Bristol & Wessex Water

stating if I don't pay the debt they will take further enforcement action.

 

I wrote back and asked them what further enforcement action do they intend to take

despite them stating previously that they would not apply for an order for sale.

 

The letter also states that I am not allowed to sell my house until the debt is paid.

 

I told them that no court would grant an order for sale for a debt less than £10,000.

 

I also said that I would enter into a repayment plan as long as they remove the charge order.

 

Bristol & Wessex Water haven't replied.

[chiefmegawatty]

About 2 1/2 years ago my water supply company placed a charge order on my house for a debt of around £1,900.

 

I recently received a letter from my water supply company

stating that they will take further enforcement if I don't enter into a repayment plan.

 

I contacted the company who said they can apply to the court for an attachment to earnings.

 

I found that puzzling because an attachment to earnings was never applied for

when the original CCJ was issued and I thought that the charge order secured the debt against my house.

 

 

Now if they are correct in saying that they can obtain an attachment to earnings,

then why didn't they do that rather than obtaining a charge order in the first place?

 

They also informed me that they can obtain an attachment to employment earnings

or have money deducted from benefits but cannot obtain money from someone living on a pension.

 

 

Does anyone know if that is correct?

[chiefmegawatty]

I have a charge order on my house for nearly £2000 from Bristol and Wessex Water.

 

 

They recently sent me a letter asking for the debt to be paid in full.

 

I am on a low income and in no position to pay the debt.

 

They said that they will take further enforcement action to force me to pay the debt.

 

I am puzzled because the charge order secures the debt against my house.

 

Why would they need to take further enforcement action when they have secured the debt?

 

I rang them and they told me that they could apply for an attachment to earnings

or benefits to recover the debt but not recover it from a pension.

 

I am living on a private pension so I assume they cannot recover the debt until the house is sold.

 

Is this correct?

 

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

[dx100uk]

you are correct.

 

 

tell about this debt

 

 

a bit more history please

 

 

dx