NCP/BW PCN PAPLOC now claimform - New Gatwick Drop Off Zone - I thought I had paid for both visits? ***Claim Dismissed***

[MoaningCrusader]

I picked up my parents on 14th Oct and dropped them off on 18th Oct 2021 at Gatwick airport. I for all intents and purposes had thought I had paid for these sessions by way of the Gatwick Airport website, and certainly the attempt of payment for the particular 'PCN' I have received was witnessed by my parents while I used my phone to make it.

 

However no payments have ever been taken and no confirmation email was ever sent for both sessions. I called NCP on 20th Oct at 4.19pm to make them aware of my concerns. I was given very vague information about the last parking session and informed there were issues with their system.

 

I told them I didn't want to received a PCN when I have been willing to pay. I have now received one, with no doubt another on its way!

 

What is the best way to appeal this? I have acted in good faith, but sadly have no real proof of what went wrong with payment process.

 

I hope you can help. Or should I just pay the £15 reduced charge and let it go now, as there's nothing I can apparently do to prove my attempted payments? 

 

[Homer67]

Have you got any proof of payment?

[MoaningCrusader]

Sadly, no Homer67. This is why I called them on 20th Oct to find out what had happened, as I wanted the receipts for my motoring accounts.

1 Date of the infringement 14/10/2021
 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 22/11/2021
 

3 Date received 24/11/2021
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? NCP

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Gatwick Airport - Drop Off N Terminal
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.  POPLA

Sorry dx100uk full sticky now above. Please advise. It seems Barrowboy maybe correct on this occasion?

NCPNTK22-11-21.pdf

HB I have. I have yet to receive any other advice to my sticky that filled out?

I don't think I have defence in regards to my thinking I had paid my parking sessions online, but clearly the payments did not process.

Despite my honest attempt to find out what happened to my payments, NCP did not allow me to get to the bottom of it. Is there any point in pursuing this appeal?

[dx100uk]

2 hours ago, MoaningCrusader said:

I have yet to receive any other advice to my sticky that filled out?

there is absolutely no rush or real need for you to do anything. the process has a long way to go , bar the threat of more fake monetary sums being added for unicorn food tax and fake DCA fees, that scare people...on it's going up.

 

also your point about byelaws is extremely relevant , no PPC can enforce byelaws , only the airport authority can and they cant pass that authority on. it is not ever wise to do anything yet where byelaws are involved. 

 

pers i'd sit on your hands, doing nothing at this stage can never harm you and as with all speculative invoices, until or unless you ever get a letter of claim, there is most def no need too.

 

there is soo much drivel on this thread im not wasting my time looking, but have you checked your online banks A/C to see if the payments were processed, not that it really matters.

[lookinforinfo]

Moaning Crusader you you have at least four factors in your favour with regards the the ridiculous PCN.

 

1] the PCN is non PoFA compliant

 

2] Gatwick airport is covered by statutory controls as well as Bye Laws. therefore it is not relevant land and the parking companies have no reasonable cause to issue PCNs.

 

PoFA Schedule 4 S8 [2] 

8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.

(2)The notice must—

(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;

 

The reason that Gatwick airport allows unlawful PCNs to be issued is that they share in the money collected by NCP.  When motorists breach Bye laws and are pursued, any fine they get in Court goes to the Treasury not Gatwick airport authority.

 

3] by their own admittance NCP stated that there were issues with the system. Courts do not allow the parking crooks to make money when their system has flaws

 

4] NCP have breached your rights under GDPR by asking DVLA for your data when they had no reasonable cause. The cheapest way to obtain anywhere around the current figure of £500 is for them to take you to Court so that they pay the Court fees. By appealing now it is much more difficult to get paid for their breach of your GDPR.

 

Time will tell whether there are more reasons why you are not liable to pay this PCN . But above are more than sufficient reasons to prevent NCP from obtaining money from you. Just go about your life safe in the knowledge that if you totally ignore them you could have a £500 bonus at the end.

 

t.

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

 

You could also claim that as you only stayed at the airport parking area for a couple of minutes, this was well within the standard 10 minute grace period there is to read and understand the T&CS.

 

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

just type no need to keep hitting quote.

[lookinforinfo]

You were very quick to come back with the counterclaim comment. There aren't that many cases where the breach of GDPR is so blatant right from the first PCN. There doesn't need to be a counterclaim if the motorist asks for damages and we are still waiting for your thoughts on the NCP signage.

I do realise that you would have been a small cog in BPA's wheel and knowing BPA they would have overruled you had you advised against the NCP Gatwick sign.

[MoaningCrusader]

So to clarify. I am being advised to ignore all correspondence to await a court summons, if one should arrive at all.

 

Or is it advisable for me to write a letter from the registered keeper informing them I will not be paying and give the grounds on which why I will not be paying and then ignore all subsequent correspondence from them?

[dx100uk]

NCP HAVE to abide by the pre action protocol and sent a letter of claim 1st, they normally do (IF IF IF) , they don't normally jump straight to getting northants bulk court to issue a court claim, which comes in a large a4 windowed brown envelope directly from the court.

 

6 minutes ago, MoaningCrusader said:

Or is it advisable for me to write a letter from the registered keeper informing them I will not be paying and give the grounds on which why I will not be paying and then ignore all subsequent correspondence from them?

you do this ONLY if you get a letter of claim, and you find/use one of our snotty letters already on many threads, BUT you post it here 1st for checking!!

 

dx

 

 

[MoaningCrusader]

On the whole are NCP particularly litigious, in your opinion? Or do they do the usual 8 escalating letters, then a further 8 or so from the sister debt collection agency and then give up?

 

I have rode out quite a few private parking firms in my time. I do normally respond as the registered keeper and inform them that I will not be disclosing the driver details nor will I be paying their 'unreasonable' parking charge invoice and then ignore any subsequent correspondence. But I am also aware that recently quite a few have started to take court actions.

 

It appears here that the fact that they have failed to send the NTK in time I don't really have to engage with them at all, am I right? 

[dx100uk]

The very best idea is to look here yourself then you are not influenced by anyone.

 

type ncp in our search top right

[MoaningCrusader]

Hi dx

 from what I have read so far, it appears I should wait until I have received a 'letter before court claim', and then respond with my complaint in regards to the non POFA & GDPR issues around this particular invoice from NCP, while also drawing their attention to stated system failings in the phone call made on the 20th October by myself at 16:19hrs.

Will I be able to get help with the wording of this response, should the time come?

You have all been very helpful up to now.

I can't thank you enough.

[honeybee13]

You're welcome, MC, it's what CAG is here for.   Of course we'll help with a 'snotty letter' if you get a Letter Before Claim, in fact we prefer to see them before they're sent to make sure you haven't let something slip about your case that might help the PPC.

 

HB

[lookinforinfo]

They don't appear to be that litigious. My wife has a PCN from about four years ago and heard nothing from them after an initial flurry of reminders and threats.

 

[Homer67]

The NTK is out of time to create keeper liability isn't it?

 

If that's right then just sit and wait and if they are stupid enough to issue a letter before claim you can tell them great, you'll enjoy seeing them in court and taking their money, but do nothing until that happens.

[honeybee13]

Thread reopened.

 

HB

[MoaningCrusader]

Hi Everyone. 

 

Thank you all for your time in commenting above.

 

It has been sometime since I started this thread, and I have been receiving a constant flow of letters from NCP and then BW Legal debt collection agency. I also have two more NTK's that I since received when I thought I had avoided the drop off zone in Gatwick airport by using a hotel forecourt, however they too were both received over 14 days since the contraventions, so I will probably have to follow the same course of action on all of them.

 

I have now unfortunately received my letter of claim from BW Legal, who are the debt collection agency for NCP, for the first contravention. They are requiring me to respond to this letter of claim by the 29th May 2022.

 

I was advised here on my thread to contact you again for further instruction on how to handle the claim, as they had failed to send their Notice to Keeper within the 14days from the apparent contravention.

 

Could you please advise me what I am to do next? I believe you have some standard responses I can use to make my case, or that you could help me complete my Letter of Claim response form sent to me by BW Legal.

 

I hope to hear from you all soon and that we can all deal with this. Do let me know what you will need from me.

 

MoaningCrusader

[dx100uk]

BW are solicitors not a DCA .

 

You send them a snotty letter.

 

Use our search top right type in ....

BW+snotty+letter

[FTMDave]

Just to be clear - these two invoices after using the hotel forecourt are from a different parking company, not NCP, right?

 

I was also going to ask if you had any proof you'd phoned NCP, but then saw the below.  Well done.

 

On 27/11/2021 at 09:08, MoaningCrusader said:

while also drawing their attention to stated system failings in the phone call made on the 20th October by myself at 16:19hrs.

[MoaningCrusader]

Hi FTMDave,

 

Just to clarify with you, no these further NTKs were from NCP as well.

 

I was informed by a taxi driver that the charge could be avoided by using the hotel pick up area. However, I discovered that wasn't the case. And I received the NTK for both pick up and drop off using this method. 

 

 

[MoaningCrusader]

Hi Dx

Thanks for that.

I just searched the above, but I am only getting brought to threads, not a letter?

Is there something I'm missing.

Sorry if I'm being a bit search engine illiterate here.

PS once I get into my office I am going to scan the Letter of Claim for you all to see with my details obscure obviously.

[dx100uk]

Well yes you have read the thread to see the letter in one of its posts. 

 

We know what the loc looks like so don't need anything bar page 1. If at all 

 

Dx

[MoaningCrusader]

Thanks Dx

 

I am reading through one of the threads now.

 

Am I right in assuming this letter still does not mean they are actually going to take me to court? Just keep ramping up the threats of doing so?

 

Does it need a response now from me? Or do I wait for the County Court docs to arrive?

[dx100uk]

Doesn't really mean anything, but you must reply by day 30.

 

Pop your ideas up here 1st