CEL 2xANPR PCN's Civil Enforcement Ltd - appeals refused - 2 more to come too! - RAVENSCROFT MEDICAL CENTRE, 166 - 168 GOLDERS GREEN ROAD, LONDON, ENGLAND, NW11 8BB

[AP3]

Hi,

I've been issued parking tickets at a doctors surgery where I visited my Chiropractor.

I have been visiting him for the past 4 years but they have changed their parking conditions but no notices available on the second floor or the door entrance.

Only notice is downstairs at the GP check in desk which I bypass as stairs to second floor are at the door entrance.

Is there anyway to challenge the parking ticket?

They have sent me 2 tickets 2 months after I visited the practice.

I will have another 2 as I saw the chiropractor weekly for a month. 

I have appealed both but they have come back with a generic reply.

Letter attached

 

CEL appeal reply letter.pdf

[FTMDave]

You left your full name & address showing, as well as the car reg and CEL's reference number - but I've redacted them now.

CEL are very well known to us.  They are one of the very worst of the bottom barrel private parking companies.  This is indeed their MO - take over a contract, put a pathetic amount of signs where no-one will see them anyway, and start to issue their invoices.  Appealing to the very people who set up this leaching scheme was never going to work.

Did you out yourself as the driver?

CEL sometimes do court, sometimes don't, but with four tickets you can be sure their greed will mean they will be quite prepared to take you to court.  It's best you realise this immediately.

There are two things you can do.

1.  On Google Maps reviews there are complaints about the new parking system and the receptionists being useless.  So you need to complain in writing to whoever called in these leeches and ask for the invoices to be cancelled.

2.  As you go there regularly take as many photos as you can of their signage or non-signage.  This will help you massively later down the line, as their MO is later to increase the signage and then lie and say the decent amount of signs were there all the time.

[AP3]

Thank you so much for removing my private information! 

Unfortunately, I did mention it was myself driving. I wasn't aware private parking companies being scammers and I was too honest. 

The receptionists were nasty when I called to speak to them and I wasn't aware they are involved with invoicing!

I took some videos but will take more. My chiropractor is willing to go to court with me. Many patients have incurred the same issues including a 91 year old patient. 

Do you think there's very little hope of me getting an accepted appeal? I went on google and many complaints about the medical centre and several about the parking system and the same situation as mine. 

I almost believe the secretaries are in on it too! It feels like a big scam!

[dx100uk]

thread title updated

you appeal to the manager of the practice directly.

looks like this is NHS owned not private?

dx

 

[FTMDave]

Your attitude to this is spot on.  Well done on getting the videos.  Legally CEL rely on the signage to form a contract between them and the driver, so if the driver can't see any damn signs there is no contract!

I can remember lots of Caggers ending up in court with CEL but I can't remember off hand a case where CEL won.  I mean they must have won sometimes, but it's very rare.  See where I'm going here - Caggers have  a great record, probably 90%+, against CEL in court.

But you're not in court yet.  You might as well complain to the medical centre  https://www.ravenscroftmedicalcentre.nhs.uk/feedback  and demand they call their dogs off.     

Take pictures as well as videos as we had a case some time back where the court refused to allow a video to be shown, although photos are always acceptable.

[AP3]

This is so helpful, thank you!

Will make sure I take pictures tomorrow.

I'm going to be brave and not pay the fine and go to court if it comes to it.

Hopefully we can get somewhere with this.

I will speak to the practice manager as well as make it clear a number of others have complained on google about this and believe we have a strong case.

I think we need to do something to ensure no-one else gets caught like myself!

It's awful. 

[dx100uk]

it is NOT A FINE.....this is an extremely important point to understand

no-one bar a magistrate in a magistrates criminal court can ever fine anyone for anything.

Private Parking Tickets (speculative invoices) are NOT a criminal matter, merely a speculative contractual Civil matter

hence they can only try a speculative monetary claim via the civil county court system (which is no more a legal powers matter than what any member of Joe Public can do).

Until/unless they do raise a county court claim a CCJ and win, there are not ANY enforcement powers they can undertake other than using a DCA, whom are legally powerless and are not BAILIFFS.

Penalty Charge Notices issued by local authorities etc were decriminalised years ago - meaning they no longer can progress a claim to the magistrates court to enforce, but go directly to legal enforcement via a real BAILIFF themselves.

10'000 of people waste £m's paying private parking companies because they think they are FINES...and the media do not help either.

the more people read the above the less income this shark industry get.

dx

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

A couple of things.

1 could you please post up the two PCNs you have received.

2 Do you know when the rogues started up with their parking signs and how many are there in the car park. Can you please ensure the photos of the signs are legible as the wording of their signs often lead to PCNs being cancelled. Can you also please take a picture of their sign at the entrance. If there is no sign please take a photo ofplaces  where you think it should be just in case they erect signs later. If there is a pay meter please include its photo plus a picture of the T&Cs beside the meter.

Also take pictures of any signs in the car park or inside that are different from others.

[Nicky Boy]

It will help the team if you could fill out this sticky please...

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/391121-have-you-received-a-parking-ticket-please-fill-this-out/#comment-4683610

The more info we have, the better.

[FTMDave]

According to their own trade association' Code of Practice, when they take over a new location, they are supposed to put up extra temporary signs to show the change, so regular users used to the old system won't get caught out.

Of course they will have done none of that.

All extra evidence that would scupper them if they did try court.

[AP3]

There are signs in the car park but one behind the car entrance/exit but one in-front.

To be honest I don’t think I acknowledged the one in front as I’ve been so many times I assumed it was saying it was just for people visiting the practice. 

there is no sign on the front door or upstairs in the waiting area where I go to. 

the practice manager said to me today that others have been caught out but they only help their nhs patients and not people seeing the chiropractors or other services upstairs.

They informed me I’m nothing to do with them and it’s not their problem!

I explained that a 91 year old man has been caught out who’s not their patient but she didn’t care. 

do you think I still have a case? Picture uploaded 

I also assumed the bays with the blue signage for dr’s/ practice managers is where we aren’t allowed to park like before. 

[FTMDave]

I think you forgot to attach the upload.

[Nicky Boy]

On 13/02/2024 at 09:11, Nicky Boy said:

It will help the team if you could fill out this sticky please...

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/391121-have-you-received-a-parking-ticket-please-fill-this-out/#comment-4683610

The more info we have, the better.

Just a little prompt

[Nicky Boy]

On 12/02/2024 at 21:46, AP3 said:

I have been visiting him for the past 4 years but they have changed their parking conditions but no notices available on the second floor or the door entrance.

Only notice is downstairs at the GP check in desk which I bypass as stairs to second floor are at the door entrance.

It might be a good idea to get pics of these locations with / without signage, next time you visit.

 

10 hours ago, AP3 said:

the practice manager said to me today that others have been caught out but they only help their nhs patients and not people seeing the chiropractors or other services upstairs.

They informed me I’m nothing to do with them and it’s not their problem!

It may also be useful to get this in writing. Send an email to the practice manager confirming your previous conversation.

Also ask for confirmation of their policy regarding the new parking restrictions and when they came into force.