Article 50 Discussion

[obiter dictum]

The Issue if May becomes PM rests with the constituents Conservative Party and how they vote. That is the Democratic process so why try and change it?

[unclebulgaria67]

For those interested, here is a link to the Treasury select committee hearing from last Tuesday, where they covered many issues arising from the Brexit vote.

 

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/cb083c53-3998-4f3a-8eca-e114e3dbdf0b

 

It will be interesting what the government does in the Autumn in regard to taking Brexit forward. Leadsom seems to think that a PM can just trigger article 50 as an executive decision, but many constituitional experts and lawyers say this is not possible. If Leadsom is advised by government lawyers she must go through parliament, i think there would be an argument, but it would go through. May on the other hand wants to take a more cautious approach, with government and parliament sorting out what they want from the EU first. They then get parliament to authorise article 50 and begin the 2 year negotiation process knowing what they want to achieve. My opinion is that May has a more sensible approach, which is at least trying to gain some consensus on what people want from Brexit, rather than a PM who is in a hurry to leave, without having an agreement on negotiation position which will be complex and wide ranging,

[citizenB]

For those interested, here is a link to the Treasury select committee hearing from last Tuesday, where they covered many issues arising from the Brexit vote.

 

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/cb083c53-3998-4f3a-8eca-e114e3dbdf0b

 

It will be interesting what the government does in the Autumn in regard to taking Brexit forward. Leadsom seems to think that a PM can just trigger article 50 as an executive decision, but many constituitional experts and lawyers say this is not possible. If Leadsom is advised by government lawyers she must go through parliament, i think there would be an argument, but it would go through. May on the other hand wants to take a more cautious approach, with government and parliament sorting out what they want from the EU first. They then get parliament to authorise article 50 and begin the 2 year negotiation process knowing what they want to achieve. My opinion is that May has a more sensible approach, which is at least trying to gain some consensus on what people want from Brexit, rather than a PM who is in a hurry to leave, without having an agreement on negotiation position which will be complex and wide ranging,

 

 

I think that TM's approach would be the best way.

 

 

I also am not impressed with Andrea Leadsom's assumption that because she is a Mother, she will make a better leader ! Then to turn on the journalist and say she was being misrepresented.. ! Good thing the journalist had a recording.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/women-leaders-glass-cliff_us_577fe9c5e4b01edea78dc840

 

 

Excellent article in the Huffington Post.

 

The Western World’s In Crisis. Bring In The Women.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/women-leaders-glass-cliff_us_577fe9c5e4b01edea78dc840

 

 

 

It claims that with the Western world in chaos - the Men are stepping back and leaving the women to it - then when the women fail - they will manage to find a nice strong man to step in and save the world !

 

There is no choice in this country - only two women were left standing.

 

The USA has a choice between Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump, erm.. that's a choice ?

 

Angela Eagle will challenge Jeremy Corbyn on Monday ! I think we will also see Yvette Cooper stick her head above the parapet as well for that one.

[obiter dictum]

Eddie the Eagle has more chance of beating Jeremy Corbyn than Angela Eagle

[andydd]

We need to leave as soon as possible. The EU is going to blow up and we need to be out. There are 20 million possible EU migrants lined up to come here until we part ways with freedom of movement.

 

 

Oh dear, what utter rubbish, "blow up" indeed, what on earth are you talking about ?. As for the migrants, what makes you think 20 million people will rush to the uk ?(apart from Farage's xenophobic doctored poster).

 

It's mostly accepted now that to have any sort of free trade agreement that the uk would have to accept freedom of movement, many Brexiters have admitted that their talk of controlling immigration didn't actually mean it would fall.

 

And what of the millions of Brits who work and live in Europe, do you honestly think that if we disallow Europeans to work and live here that other eu countries will still allow Brits to work and live in the Eu ?, I'm currently in the French Alps, the whole town is full of Brits living and working here, it's a two way street.

[unclebulgaria67]

Oh dear, what utter rubbish, "blow up" indeed, what on earth are you talking about ?. As for the migrants, what makes you think 20 million people will rush to the uk ?(apart from Farage's xenophobic doctored poster).

 

It's mostly accepted now that to have any sort of free trade agreement that the uk would have to accept freedom of movement, many Brexiters have admitted that their talk of controlling immigration didn't actually mean it would fall.

 

And what of the millions of Brits who work and live in Europe, do you honestly think that if we disallow Europeans to work and live here that other eu countries will still allow Brits to work and live in the Eu ?, I'm currently in the French Alps, the whole town is full of Brits living and working here, it's a two way street.

 

Yep. And when people realise just how many jobs in the UK are with EU mainland owned companies or is reliant on them and the government would have to ensure trade between UK and EU is as smooth as it is now, not to cause serious issues.

 

Within 10 miles, i know of many French, Italian, Spanish, German and British companies, who make whole goods or components that get shipped over to mainland Europe. Because the UK is within the EU area, it makes it easier for these companies to operate in the UK, with goods shipped across Europe and some of the workforce able to move between the various European sites. For example, locally there is a specialised packaging firm who are French owned, with factories in several other EU countries. While they supply the UK market, they also ship packaging products to the EU. If the UK left the EU with terms affecting their current operating model, they would have to make changes. This could affect the jobs of several hundred people and that is just one factory. There will be hundreds or thousands of other businesses around the UK who will be affected by Brexit and any new trade arrangements.

 

I think the UK economy has done well because it has been part of the EU and many leave voters will come to realise they have made a massive mistake. No government is going to proceed with a change that is proving bad for the country and where they feel the majority is against Brexit. At the moment government are saying they will proceed as democrats to implement Brexit, but that does not mean it will happen at any cost. We will have to see what happens, but i would not be surprised to see the UK remain part of the EU, if the EU still exists in 5 years. The UK has a vested interest in seeing the EU survive, as any implosion on our doorstep will have devastating impact on the UK economy.

[citizenB]

Eddie the Eagle has more chance of beating Jeremy Corbyn than Angela Eagle

 

 

How cruel is that ?

 

 

Although having seen in the press what she has voted on and for and her take on life - I would be surprised if she was acceptable to the voters !

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-eagle-policies-voting-record-iraq-welfare-cuts-vote-syria-trident-tuition-fees-snoop-marriage-a7111696.html

 

In 2015 Ms Eagle said Chancellor George Osborne has introduced his so-called “national living wage” too quickly and that this might have an impact on businesses. She said there may be a case for a full statutory living wage but suggested she was happy with the Low Pay Commission continuing to set the legal minimum while people campaigned for a full living wage in their workplaces.

 

 

Ms Eagle was one of the MPs who did not vote against Conservative welfare cuts during Labour’s 2015 leadership contest – following Harriet Harman’s party line.

 

 

The MP supported the introduction of tuition fees under Tony Blair and supported raising them to £3,000 in 2004.

 

 

Ms Eagle consistently voted in favour of ID cards and in favour of snooping law requiring the mass retention of communications data. She also supported the Blair government’s plan to detain people for 90 days without charge.

[unclebulgaria67]

Brexit is not very certain. Wait for lawyers to get involved on every issue.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-result-not-legally-binding-lawyers-letter-a7129626.html

[unclebulgaria67]

Leadsom pulls out of Tory leader contest and Theresa May could become PM very soon.

 

http://news.sky.com/story/leadsom-pulls-out-of-race-to-be-prime-minister-10498594

 

Meanwhile Labour will have a leadership contest, for which Corbyn may not be a choice on the ballot, because he may not have the support of enough MP's/MEP's. Corbyn intends to go to court.

 

What a mess ! Most of the politicians who campaigned for Brexit have done a runner and it is most likely politicians who backed remain will negotiate UK's position. And we have the official opposition party in a state of shambles.

 

Get ready for an Autumn election, as May seeks a mandate as PM, hoping to gain a big majority against a weak Labour party.

[citizenB]

She doesn't have to call an election though, does she ?

 

 

After all it was the Conservatives that were voted in to form the government - not simply David Cameron !

 

 

I think she needs to get shot of Michael Gove and replace him with someone she can trust.

[Consumer dude]

Brexit is not very certain. Wait for lawyers to get involved on every issue.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-result-not-legally-binding-lawyers-letter-a7129626.html

 

Don't the people have some kind of contract with the government that could make Brexit perfectly legal ?

[unclebulgaria67]

Don't the people have some kind of contract with the government that could make Brexit perfectly legal ?

 

No, the referendum had no legally binding effect. The government are defending a court action. Those bringing the claim say parliament must authorise government to trigger article 50. The government are trying to argue that it is up to the PM using Royal protocol.

[Guest]

she's said exit, so it looks like it will be, unless the mp's kick up re the required bill. which if they do cld poss trigger an election.

the issue now is what agreement becomes in place (the 'exit' dept will advise), given that she was sort of remain, and, most of the cons were remain.

she does seem though the best choice as leader out of the candidates.

 

as for labour. they are, as you say, in a 'mess'. Corby has its voter mandate, yet its mp's want him out. what about the 'democracy' there.

[obiter dictum]

You would need the consent of Parliament to repeal the European Communities Act 1972. The Referendum result plays no part

[Consumer dude]

No, the referendum had no legally binding effect. The government are defending a court action. Those bringing the claim say parliament must authorise government to trigger article 50. The government are trying to argue that it is up to the PM using Royal protocol.

 

What about the will of the people ?, Does this count for anything ?. It appears not..

[Guest]

as said, May is saying exit. so, there you go.

seems likely that the 'best' trade agreement with the eu will require some form of allowable movement of eu workers. so, not much of a 'win' for the leavers that dont like eu workers/immigration. not forgetting that international immigration is entirely different.

plus, certain eu laws wld have to be enacted/integrated domestically to facilitate eu trade. again, not much of a win for those that didnt want eu regs.

and, as for extra spending on the nhs. thats gone awol on one of boris' bikes

Ossie talking of american trade. ok, lets be controlled further by them instead?

but, lets see what happens. things 'May' turn out ok.

[determindator]

They just may:-D

[determindator]

An insight from Which? http://try.which.co.uk/brexit?utm_source=whichcouk&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=campaignbrexit080716

[citizenB]

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-dr-peter-catterall-says-eu-referendum-didnt-follow-the-letter-of-the-law-2016-7

 

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/government-may-broken-law-eu-060000967.html

 

The government failed to follow its own rules in the way it ran the Brexit referendum, according to a leading constitutional expert who said he agrees with a prominent Eurosceptic lawyer who raised the same point in the House of Commons.

 

 

 

Eurosceptic lawyer and Conservative MP Sir William Cash raised the issue in the House of Commons in late February, saying: "On June 23 the people may not have impartial and accurate information. I believe the government is probably, if not certainly, in breach of their duty under section six and seven of the European Referendum Act 2015."

 

[unclebulgaria67]

And Philip Hammond said in parliament today that Brexit could take 6 years and beyond the next due election. Theresa May has ruled out an early election and it remains May 2020.

 

Can you imagine the Brexit Tory MP's sitting quietly in parliament supporting Theresa May when the Brexit train comes off the rails.

 

I think Cameron knew that Brexit would be very difficult and might not happen. When the Brexiteers start to realise that their win will mean nothing, they will be very angry.

[citizenB]

And Philip Hammond said in parliament today that Brexit could take 6 years and beyond the next due election. Theresa May has ruled out an early election and it remains May 2020.

 

Can you imagine the Brexit Tory MP's sitting quietly in parliament supporting Theresa May when the Brexit train comes off the rails.

 

I think Cameron knew that Brexit would be very difficult and might not happen. When the Brexiteers start to realise that their win will mean nothing, they will be very angry.

 

 

I think that was very cynical of Cameron. I knew he only agreed to the referendum to appease some of his MPs - don't they realise that all this aggro amongst themselves is causing the electorate to lose confidence ?

 

 

I don't think there should be another election - people voted for the party - not the man at the top. The party has the mandate - let her get on with the job, which I think she will do quite well.

[Guest]

- let her get on with the job, which I think she will do quite well.

but will Larry still be there with May, looks like he's not sure whether to stay or go as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36781561

[citizenB]

but will Larry still be there with May, looks like he's not sure whether to stay or go as well

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36781561

 

 

I thought it was quite amusing the amount of press that Larry got today. I imagine he understands that there is something going on

[Guest]

I thought it was quite amusing the amount of press that Larry got today. I imagine he understands that there is something going on

seems he is staying, but Cam wld prob have taken him if May didnt want him (apparently she may have had a cat allergy http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/claws-come-out-as-political-rivals-are-caught-in-catfight-on-camera-a3293836.html). No 10 without a chief mouser cat!

https://www.rt.com/uk/350914-larry-cat-downing-cameron/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3686476/A-win-Remain-Larry-cat-stay-Downing-Street-David-Cameron-hands-Theresa-Prime-Minister.html

[unclebulgaria67]

Boris johnson new Foreign Secretary They won't understand him. Bet May gave him the job, so he spends most of the time out of the country and not in London where he can cause trouble.

 

Could you imagine Boris making a speech at the UN, being met with a lot of confused faces as none of the interpreters have a clue what he has said.