UKCPM ANPR PCN - gym with reg terminal - at Atlip Centre Wembley

[Sunshine_Phoenix]

Hey All 

Looking for some much needed help on this one ... *cries!*

My husband regularly uses the gym next to this centre in Wembley - and always registers his number plate on their system accordingly.

He is *convinced* he did so on this day too (as he always does!), but has no proof as such.

I have now just received the attached PCN and don't know how best to challenge this!

The photo is from the road, which, after some research, I can see is evidently a private road? 

Any help and support on this would be hugely appreciated!!

1 Date of the infringement - 1st March 2024

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 5th March 2024

3 Date received 8th March 2024

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes - within uploaded PCN

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No - just received

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A

7 Who is the parking company? CPM UK Car Park Management

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Atlip Centre, Wembley

 

UKCPM PCN.pdf

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG.

Thank you for the information we need to start advising you. I see that you have left the PCN reference on your document. For anonymity you need to edit that out please, but you also need to resave it as a pdf file which is more secure.

Best, HB

[dx100uk]

ive done the pcn now to pdf properly redacted.

thread title updated.

dx

[honeybee13]

Thank you dx.

HB

[Sunshine_Phoenix]

Oh, thank you both so much for amending that so quickly for me!  I look forward to any advice at all!

[Nicky Boy]

First bit of advice is DO NOT APPEAL! (You could lose useful legal protection.)

Next is contact the gym, explain the situation and ask them to get the PCN cancelled. (DON'T tell them who was driving.)

And finally, read a load more threads around the forum to educate yourself on who you are really dealing with.

[Nicky Boy]

These companies are not bona fide! They're just interested in the ££££'s.

[lookinforinfo]

As usual UKPCM cannot get a PCN to comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.

In order to be able to transfer the charge from the driver to the keeper they have to stick to the Requirements of the above Act. They failed miserably which is good news for you because not only is the driver the only person now liable to pay the charge and UK... whatever, do not know who was driving . the Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person so as thousands of people are able to drive that car it won't be easy coming up with the right name and address name. 

as far as the gym register is concerned could you get your husband to think what number he possibly entered that day. Does he have two cars, was he driving a different car that day for example. Will the gym not let him look through the numbers or can you get him to ask the  UK rubbish company to provide you with all the numbers of the cars in the car park that were not also  on the gym register. [A long shot I know].

Just relax UK idiots couldn't run a whelk stall and they cannot pursue the keeper of the car. That is before they have to produce a lot more paperwork such as the contract with the landowner that may well produce more problems plus they use fifth rate solicitors [I am being kind] to wire a Witness statement should they be stupid to take your husband to Court ,[Sadly they are that stupid but they won't win so no worries]. In the meantime they will bombard you with pointless letters from unregulated debt collectors increasing the amount they say is owed. Completely ignoring the fact that the most they can charge is the amount on the car park signage. 

Just relax and don't worry. Just keep an eye ot later in the months to come if you receive a Letter of Claim from UKidiots.. Do not ignore it but let us know so that you can respond with a snotty letter to show that you are not bothered.

[Sunshine_Phoenix]

Thank you so much for your response, it's really appreciated. 

Their PCN letter does refer to Freedom of Protection Act 2012 Schedule 4 on the front page (I've incorrectly suggested this doesn't on my initial post which I will change now) and

they seem to rely on clause 9 2(f) which states "the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;"

- I'm concerned they do have legal recourse?

In the meantime, my Husband is going back to the gym tonight as will get as much evidence as possible!

[lookinforinfo]

Well the poor dears missed out the words in parentheses in their version of a PCN which is enough on its own to make the PCN non compliant. But they had already  also missed out section [1] in clause 9[2][e]

(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—

(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or

(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;"

They are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

On top of that they didn't specify the parking period as they should. The arrival and departures times are not the parking period as there are driving times involved. 

[FTMDave]

On 08/03/2024 at 16:42, Nicky Boy said:

Next is contact the gym, explain the situation and ask them to get the PCN cancelled. (DON'T tell them who was driving.)

How did it go with the gym?

[Sunshine_Phoenix]

Hi All

Just to update

- the gym said they would get through PCN cancelled, I assumed all was sorted.

However a debt collection warning has arrived in the post today!

Will be returning to the gym for evidence they requested this to be cancelled...

The saga continues.

[FTMDave]

On the one hand it could be that the gym have been great and it's UKCPM who have "forgotten" to cancel the invoice.

Or on the other that the gym have fobbed your husband off.

This time make sure to get an e-mail address for the gym when there, and confirm the conversation by e-mail.  It's important to have a paper trail.