Alliance ANPR NTK - overstay - Padstow Harbour Car Park

[redcandle2]

Hi all

In line with my recent (bad) luck, I have received a Notice to Keeper - Parking Charge Notice for parking my car in the Padstow Harbour Car Park in Padstow. The car park seems to be controlled by Alliance Parking who are quite infamous on this and other forums!

I went with my parents and young kids (seven people in all) and had paid for the 4 hours parking (ticket attached). I was at the car before the parking expired but by the time we put all our luggage and ourselves in the car + used the toilets we were a few mins over. I assumed that it being a Pay & Display car park, someone will have to check a ticket being displayed and being with the car for the extra minutes was okay.

We were a group of three cars, and the other two are also in the same position and have received a NTK.

Strangely the letter we received (attached) seems to suggest that we didn't pay at all rather than we over-stayed. Also, the Entry time on the machine ticket seems to be different to the Entry time on the letter/ANPR image.

We visited the car park on 31/03/2024, but the PCN was received on Sat, 13/04/2024 (on the 14th day), so I am also unsure about whether the letter was received in time.

1 Date of the infringement 31 March 2024

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 04 April 2024   

3 Date received 13 April 2024

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Dont think so.

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No (checked this site first)

7 Who is the parking company? Alliance Parking

8 Where exactly [carpark name and town] Padstow Harbour Car Park, Padstow, Cornwall

9 For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here None

Any help would be really appreciated. 

 

Alliance Parking.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

Welcome to the Forum.

The PCN must be subject to Bye laws as the warning near the bottom of the PCN does not comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 Under Section 9 [2][f[] of the Act it should say:

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver ,the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

Their version states they are pursuing you as the driver [because of the Bye laws they cannot transfer the liability from the driver to the keeper] even though you are the keeper. Should it go to Court Judges do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person.

Obviously on many occasions another member of the family may be driving instead of the keeper. Indeed anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your car.

if any of the three cars were not driven by the keeper they are not liable to pay the PCN only the driver is.  as long as they do not divulge who was driving those lovely people at Alliance haven't a hope of winning against them in Court. What a shame.

However while those keepers who were not driving are in the clear all is not lost for the other keeper drivers. Alliance still have to prove who was driving which is difficult providing those keepers do not appeal. 

It is quite often that on appeal the keeper may say "I entered the car park at....."  immediately giving away that they were the driver. Plus even if you appeal it won't be accepted as a] they lose £100 straight away and b] mostly all the major car parking companies are dishonest scrotes.

In the meantime you will be on the receiving end of threatening letters from Alliance, unregulated debt collectors and fifth, sixth or even lower rated solicitors all trying to frighten the life out of you to cough up.

They can all be safely ignored since if you don't contact any of them they don't know who was driving so have no information that the can use in Court to identify the driver.

Some time in the future they may send you a Letter of Claim which must not be ignored.

Just let us know and we will advise a suitable snotty letter to send them which will show that you are not afraid of them and are happy to turn up in court knowing that you will win.

Sorry it was a bit long winded.

 

[FTMDave]

Very briefly as I'm at work.

Yours is the ninth Alliance Parking case we have.  Despite all their bluster, in none of the other eight have the parking company had the guts to do court.

[redcandle2]

Thanks a lot for the replies so far and all the explanations

Although it is good to know that they wont win in court.... I feel unsure whether I am ready to deal with all the letters that may come through (with everything else going on) .... Or risking anything on the credit history / CCJ (?).

Need to make the decision

[FTMDave]

You can only get a CCJ if they take you to court, you lose the court case, and then you defy the court and don't pay.

CCJs are used to punish people who defy court orders.

As Alliance don't do court you can't get a CCJ.

[FTMDave]

22 hours ago, redcandle2 said:

someone will have to check a ticket being displayed and being with the car for the extra minutes

No, they have clobbered you with ANPR cameras at the entrance.

22 hours ago, redcandle2 said:

Also, the Entry time on the machine ticket seems to be different to the Entry time on the letter/ANPR image.

That's because the time you entered the car park is earlier than the time you purchased a ticket.

However.

I note you paid till 17:40.  You left the car park at 18:01.  That's a 21-minute overstay.  Yet Alliance reckon you overstayed for 35 minutes!  So it seems that even if you had left on time they would still have sent you an invoice!

It's up to you what you do,.  I've looked through the other eight cases.  Alliance's MO is always the same.  Design the car park badly (such as hiding signs in undergrowth) to catch motorists out.  Next destroy half the Amazon with threats about how they're going to divert a drone from Ukraine to land on your house.  Send a formal Letter of Claim threatening court action.  But when that is robustly replied to, crawl back under their stone.  So far they have never done court on CAG. 

If you want to continue to fight them we will support your all the way.

Edited April 15 by FTMDave
Typos

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, redcandle2 said:

Need to make the decision

no you don't 

the key to all this is to keep reading up as you have been.

you'll soon understand why you don't pay nor think you might wet yourself thinking about going to court or 'getting' a CCJ

dx

[FTMDave]

Looking at other threads, we have people who received an invoice even though they hadn't overstayed the time shown on the ticket they'd purchased.

That's because Alliance want payment to cover the whole period from the ANPR camera showing the car entering the car park to showing the car leaving.

So what is printed on your ticket - "expiry time 17:40" - is a lie intended to mislead you.  The four-hour payment really expired at 17:26.  If you'd left, say, at 17:30, you would still have received their invoice!

However, that doesn't really help in your case as you overstayed both their made-up scam time of 17:26 and the real time of 17:40, and by quite a lot.

However, remember that Alliance are a small company and so far have never done court.  That could change, there are no guarantees, but up till now that have never had the bottle to do court.

[redcandle2]

Thanks all for all your input. I have decided to follow this all the way.

So far, I have not replied to Alliance Parking's original NTK letter. The time-period for the reduced amount has now finished, and the time to appeal (21 days from the date of letter) will finish on 25th Apr.

No further comms received from Alliance Parking.

Could you please guide me, for my readiness, on what happens next?

• Am I going to start receiving letters from Alliance Parking > Debt Collector letters > Letter of Claim?
• Who sends me the Letter of Claim - Alliance Parking / Debt Collectors / Solicitors / court? How many weeks / months from now is this likely to be?
• Once Alliance Parking passes the debt off to the Debt Collectors, is there a risk of anyone turning up at the door?
• Do I need to reply to any other letters from either the parking company, debt collectors, or solicitors?

Many thanks in advance.

[dx100uk]

all of which you could already have answered yourself if you'd been reading up.

a DCa is NOT A BAILIFF.

yours is not the next move.

On 15/04/2024 at 00:57, lookinforinfo said:

Some time in the future they may send you a Letter of Claim which must not be ignored.

 

[redcandle2]

Thanks a lot. 

I did read every single post and though the process was fairly clear at a high level, I just wanted to be sure in the areas a posted. Call it first time nerves, going down this route. 

Thanks again.

[FTMDave]

I've been on this site for eight years and I haven't seen one PPC case where a DCA turned up at the motorist's door.

Even if they did they couldn't do anything, but in any case it's never happened.

If you read this short thread you will see all the stages of the legal procedure all the way to winning in court, which is highly unlikely to be necessary in your case  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/406892-highview-parking-anpr-pcn-claimform-urban-exchange-manchester-claim-dismissed/#comments