The European Union.....In or Out?

[tobyjugg2]

Alastair Darling introduced the 50% top tax rate of income £150k plus in Labours last budget before the 2010 election. George Osborne reduced it to 45%, which i think was a sensible move, as you should never look to penalise those fortunate enough to earn such high salaries. If you are a top heart surgeon looking to move abroad from say Canada, you might be put off coming to the UK, when there are many other countries interested in their employment, who may offer a lower tax rate.

 

UK tax system is far too complex and needs substantial reform. I would take it out of the hands of politicians, so they can't mess around with it for purely political purposes.

 

 

Then you might be please to see:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/30/tories-rich-poor-pay-31-percent-ed-balls

[unclebulgaria67]

Why not have a tax rate that encourages certain types of employment. You might decide that a Doctor is more worthwhile to the country, than say an accountant.

 

Why have a VAT rate of 20% which hits lower incomes more, where they spend most of their income on basic living ? If you want a country to do well, you need people on low/average incomes not needing state benefit support and being able to spend money in the economy. This may mean those on above average incomes would have to pay more income taxes, but those in business are seeing more revenues coming in, therefore potential to share in performance of their business.

 

I would also look to put a cap on private rents on a regional basis and offer private landlords some other incentive to stay active in the private rental market. This might help with the housing benefit cost and house price values.

[citizenB]

 

UK tax system is far too complex and needs substantial reform. I would take it out of the hands of politicians, so they can't mess around with it for purely political purposes.

 

 

Absolutely - there are too many loopholes built into our tax system.

 

Why not have a tax rate that encourages certain types of employment. You might decide that a Doctor is more worthwhile to the country, than say an accountant.

 

Why have a VAT rate of 20% which hits lower incomes more, where they spend most of their income on basic living ? If you want a country to do well, you need people on low/average incomes not needing state benefit support and being able to spend money in the economy. This may mean those on above average incomes would have to pay more income taxes, but those in business are seeing more revenues coming in, therefore potential to share in performance of their business.

 

I would also look to put a cap on private rents on a regional basis and offer private landlords some other incentive to stay active in the private rental market. This might help with the housing benefit cost and house price values.

 

 

I believe this is the wrong way to go. Everyone who works has a part to play in society from road sweepers to Heart Surgeons. You could say those who empty our rubbish bins every week save as many lives by way of reducing disease spread by uncollected waste !

 

 

I do however agree that just because someone earns a huge salary - they shouldn't be penalised with ridiculously high tax bills. Perhaps start the point at which people do pay tax on their income at a much higher level than it already is. No one can live on the current tax free level of what... £11,000? So why not make it higher at say £15,000 and then to pay tax on a lower band. Anyone earning over say £100,000 should pay a middle rate of tax of about 30% and anyone earning over £250,000 at 40% but there should be absolutely no exemptions.

 

 

Heavily taxed individuals have no incentives to earn more IMHO or they find ways to avoid paying tax either legally or illegally.

[SabreSheep]

I'm still on the fence here.

 

But regarding bonfire of workers rights.

 

Currently whilst part of the EU. Who has longest working week?

 

How many bank holidays do we have compared to the rest.

 

How does our current productivity compare

[citizenB]

I'm still on the fence here.

 

But regarding bonfire of workers rights.

 

Currently whilst part of the EU. Who has longest working week?

 

How many bank holidays do we have compared to the rest.

 

How does our current productivity compare

 

 

 

 

According to a study - Greeks work the longest hours - 42.2 per week - with Germans only working 35.6.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/dec/08/europe-working-hours

 

 

Although according to the article below - UK workers, work the longest at 48 hours and an incredible amount of unpaid overtime !

 

 

https://www.tuc.org.uk/workplace-issues/working_time.cfm

 

 

Bank Holidays

 

 

The Uk at the bottom of the list for those.

 

 

https://www.tuc.org.uk/workplace-issues/chemicals-and-dust/welfare-and-benefits/uk-has-least-bank-holidays-europe-tuc-wants

 

 

And we are also very low down the list where annual leave is concerned ! With only 20 days annual leave with some of the other EU countries having over 30 !!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18144319

 

 

Can find nothing really in respect of productivity = although it has been said that just because long hours are worked, does not mean you are more productive.

[tobyjugg2]

According to a study - Greeks work the longest hours - 42.2 per week - with Germans only working 35.6.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/dec/08/europe-working-hours

 

 

Although according to the article below - UK workers, work the longest at 48 hours and an incredible amount of unpaid overtime !

 

 

https://www.tuc.org.uk/workplace-issues/working_time.cfm

 

 

Bank Holidays

 

 

The Uk at the bottom of the list for those.

 

 

https://www.tuc.org.uk/workplace-issues/chemicals-and-dust/welfare-and-benefits/uk-has-least-bank-holidays-europe-tuc-wants

 

 

And we are also very low down the list where annual leave is concerned ! With only 20 days annual leave with some of the other EU countries having over 30 !!

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18144319

 

 

Can find nothing really in respect of productivity = although it has been said that just because long hours are worked, does not mean you are more productive.

 

So just imagine what it would be like without the EU regulations if Boris got his way ....

[buckthorn]

I'm still on the fence here.

 

But regarding bonfire of workers rights.

 

Currently whilst part of the EU. Who has longest working week?

 

How many bank holidays do we have compared to the rest.

 

How does our current productivity compare

 

 

 

People are always complaining they don’t know

how to vote in the EU referendum because they don’t

know the facts.

 

Well, here’s a fact slipped out by the Government this

week in a 96-page report they hoped no one would

bother to read.

 

It says, unequivocally, that Britain has no choice but to

adopt EU laws and accept the rulings of the EU court

because EU law, in every instance, overrides UK law.

And the European Court trumps the British Supreme

Court.

 

So there it is, in black and white-we have no special

concessions. We are absolutely not a special case.

 

We are under the thumb of European Courts that make 63% of our laws. Fact!

[Consumer dude]

Lets just have a war and get it out of the way..

[silverfox1961]

I recently found out about a new law that came in to force in November 2012. This deals with district heating and cooling. Bear with me.

 

This is a directive from the EU which the UK has to be fully implemented by 31 December 2016 and is designed to place a meter in every dwelling of a HMO or complex where there are two or more residents sharing a heating or cooling source. In the UK, that will be mainly heating only.

 

Every residence that used to be charged a flat fee per week based on the previous years heat usage will now be charged individually as an 'encouragement' to reduce the heat output where needed thereby reducing carbon emissions. Sounds good in theory but, some people on a very low income who liked the security of a fixed fee will now be faced with a potentially higher bill and the uncertainty that comes with it. Will it affect the elderly who may use a lot more heat than normal? My opinion is yes.

 

On a personal side, I live in sheltered housing and this directive will apply. My local council will be going a step further. I pay a fixed fee for my heating and electricity usage. Within the next few weeks, we will have our existing fuse boxes replaced with a new one which also contains a smart meter so that we can be charged on the electricity used but also, the heat meter will be attached to the smart meter and the readings sent automatically to our council. Alongside this, we are having a new heating system installed. New radiators attached to an air source heat pump.

 

Unknown territory for us as we have no idea if the full cost will be passed on to the residents here. We have had no say in the matter nor were we informed of the meters. I only found out by accident.

 

While the premise is good, this is another example of the EU imposing its rules on the rest of us without a by your leave.

[unclebulgaria67]

I have seen some posts on district heating and in some cases it appears to be a rip off. If you lived in say a block of 30 flats, why should you pay for others to heat their flats for hours, when you might be out all of the time with heat turned down low. Each flatowner should be responsible for their own usage, just like any other home owner/resident.

 

Be careful with air source heat pumps, as they can be installed in such a way, that increased electric is used to opertate the pump. So you end up with higher energy bills than before.

[silverfox1961]

I need to correct an error. HMO's are not included but a block where there are multiple flats connected to the heating system are.

 

I agree with the idea of separate charges but I am more concerned for people who are not able to pay higher charges. Nobody in my complex of 19 flats have complained about the system and once this scheme is operating, I will check with my neighbours to see whether they have higher charges than before the installation. A few of the residents here are on a limited income (me included) and there has been no information on how we are meant to be paying for this. Weekly, monthly or otherwise.

 

What bugs me more is that this is a directive from the EU. Who gave them the right to interfere in our systems and force councils and companies to bear the costs. Oh yes, we did!

[unclebulgaria67]

Quite often UK government are actively involved in these EU directives on various. They agree to them from the outset and take part in all discussions so the directive is formed meeting their requirements. Easy to blame the EU, when i suspect this started under Labour term and the coalition/Tories continued it.

 

See this link ( not read it all)

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/379049/EED_Government_response_-_261114_version.pdf

[buckthorn]

Some things that are NOT FACTS

 

3 million jobs will not be at risk.

 

The claim that 3 million jobs will be at risk if we

leave the EU is "a wilful distortion of the facts"

-according to the man who produced the facts .

It depends on the mad idea that, after Brexit,

the EU will refuse to buy things from us, or sell

things to us, despite our being their biggest and

most valued customer

 

British expats will not be sent home.

 

After Bexit, under the Vienna Convention,

everyone can stay were they are, provided they

are there legally, British expats tend to be

wealthier people making a significant

contribution to their local economies, rather than

low-skilled, low-paid workers.

 

The EU does not benefit every family by £3,000 a year.

 

This is an 'inference' by the CBI, based on a

'literature review' of a number of studies, at least

some of which said that the EU's costs outweigh

the benefits. Of course, the CBI is very keen that

we stay in-just as it insisted we had to join the

Euro, or face ruin!

 

Big companies will not stop investing in the UK.

 

Big companies would like us to stay in the EU-

because it is designed for big companies. But big

firms like Nissan and Boeing are investing in the

UK, even though we may be about to leave. And

one survey said that US and Asian firms would be

more likly to invest here!

[tobyjugg2]

So there it is, in black and white-we have no special

concessions. We are absolutely not a special case.

 

We are under the thumb of European Courts that make 63% of our laws. Fact!

 

 

Yes, and if those laws are unjust, there are half a billion people available to object to them.

 

I almost exclusively believe that laws should be for ALL, without ANY special cases.

That is justice as well as law.

[buckthorn]

This is what you get if you vote to remain in the

EU/cloud cuckoo land.

 

The government’s ‘deal’ is not guaranteed.

Mr Cameron’s renegotiations must be presented to the European Parliament

for approval-after we vote to stay in. That means they can be rejected by 700 MEP’s

who don’t like us, when we have already decided not to leave.

Some new EU laws are being held back until we have voted; and the ‘emergency brake’

on migrants’ benefits run out in seven years.

The EU is collapsing.

Its Euro currency doesn’t work, its borderless regime is breaking up, the migrant crisis

is overwhelming and European ‘solidarity’ is coming to an end. On February 24th,

Greece withdrew its ambassador from Austria. The EU wants our weight and money to

try and shore things up and prevent more counties leaving.

Our Forces under EU command.

Under the 2009 Lisbon Treaty the EU is creating integrated European military forces-a

‘common security and defence policy’. The EU Naval Force, EU Air Transport Command,

EU Military Staff, battle groups and rapid reaction forces already exist, including British forces

which will come under EU command.

The EU-US trade agreement threatens the NHS.

A trade agreement being negotiated in secret between the EU and USA (TTIP) will open up

the NHS to US corporations, who will be able to sue for access to our health service.

Turkey will be a member by 2025.

The next seven states to join the EU will be Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro,

Serbia and Turkey. Turkey has been ‘fast-tracked’ and will get visa-free access to the EU from

this year. Citizens of all these states will have a right to settle in the UK.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Andyorch
Removed reference to poster

[buckthorn]

If we vote to leave the EU.

We will continue to trade freely with Europe, and the world.

It won’t take ‘years’ to negotiate a trade agreement with the EU. We are the

EU’s. most valuable customer. As a former CBI chief said, we could have all

the trade deals we need ‘within 48 hours’.

 

We will stop ‘free movement’ and control our borders fairly.

There are 137 countries trading with the EU without free movement of people.

We will not have to be like Norway, Switzerland, Canada, or anyone else. We are

the world’s 5th largest economy, and the EU’s best customer, so we will strike

the deal we want, and control our borders properly. We will have a fair, secure

immigration system of our own.

 

We can save billions of pounds to fund the NHS.

The EU costs us £55 million a day in subscription fees, and £150 billion a year in

added costs. We are one of the EU’s biggest funders. Maybe we could use the money

better at home?

 

Our food would be cheaper.

The EU makes our food about £45 a month more expensive for the average family,

according to the IEA. Prof Minford of Cardiff University predicts that food prices

would fall 8% “on day one” after Brexit. Plus, the EU is thinking of putting VAT on

our food, medicines and children’s clothes.

 

Let’s be on the safe side-outside the EU.

The EU failed in Yugoslavia, provoked a war in Ukraine, can’t control its borders or

manage the migrant crisis. Security experts say that the reason a Paris-style terrorist

attack hasn’t occurred in the UK yet is because we are an island and can police our

borders. We have the best security and intelligence service in Europe by far.

[tobyjugg2]

We are the world’s 5th largest economy, and the EU’s best customer, so we will strike the deal we want, and control our borders properly. We will have a fair, secure immigration system of our own.

 

We can save billions of pounds to fund the NHS.

We are one of the EU’s biggest funders. Maybe we could use the money better at home?

Dream on.

Even our 'special relationship' with the US has them saying it might take ten years to negotiate trade deals with the US - and even then they wouldn't be in our favour thats for sure.

 

We can save billions of pounds to fund the NHS.

The EU costs us £55 million a day in subscription fees, and £150 billion a year in

added costs. We are one of the EU’s biggest funders. Maybe we could use the money better at home?

 

Anybody think the Tories would spend that money on the NHS?

Again - dream on.

[Old Cogger]

Yes, and if those laws are unjust, there are half a billion people available to object to them.

 

I almost exclusively believe that laws should be for ALL, without ANY special cases.

That is justice as well as law.

 

????? Then why are Bankers still around = Justice???

[Old Cogger]

Dream on.

Even our 'special relationship' with the US has them saying it might take ten years to negotiate trade deals with the US - and even then they wouldn't be in our favour thats for sure.

 

 

 

Anybody think the Tories would spend that money on the NHS?

Again - dream on.

 

 

 

Even our 'special relationship' with the US has them saying it might take ten years to negotiate trade deals with the US - and even then they wouldn't be in our favour thats for sure.

 

Their oldest ally is the French - their words! recently , special relationship???

 

Dream on that is child's play, politicians get out clause!

[tobyjugg2]

Their oldest ally is the French - their words! recently , special relationship???

 

Of course they are.

The French supported the American war of independence against the British.

 

 

Also remember that the French vetoed Britains' initial entry to the European club. I think they were right then, but we had little choice thanks to the Yanks,

The Americans aren't even the Americans allies, and they think that no one matters at all compared to the Americans.

Anyone who relies on the yanks really would have (and we have) signed away their soul.

I would actually rather trust agreements with Russia rather than the US, and I would certainly be watching my back with the Russians.

[tobyjugg2]

????? Then why are Bankers still around = Justice???

 

Because CAMERONS EU renegotiation protected the city and the bankers from EU regulations (including EU salary/bonus limits) - the only real thing he did negotiate.

Look up the thread - it is reported and linked.

[buckthorn]

Yes, and if those laws are unjust, there are half a billion people available to object to them.

 

I almost exclusively believe that laws should be for ALL, without ANY special cases.

That is justice as well as law.

 

The European Court of Human Rights has become a danger

to British democracy and an affront to human rights. While

we are members of the EU, and therefore the ECHR, the

British Supreme Court is supreme in name only. In reality it

is subservient.

 

We would be better off without the EU and the ECHR,

instead allowing British judges to decide how British laws

are implemented.

[buckthorn]

The President of the European Parliament told David Cameron

that his so called renegotiation deal would be ripped up by MEPS

if EU leaders agreed to allow Britain to curb migrants benefits.

 

In a statement Germen socialist Martin Schulz said the

Parliament was prepared to 'fight' the Prime Minister's

plans.

[tobyjugg2]

The President of the European Parliament told David Cameron

that his so called renegotiation deal would be ripped up by MEPS

if EU leaders agreed to allow Britain to curb migrants benefits.

 

In a statement Germen socialist Martin Schulz said the

Parliament was prepared to 'fight' the Prime Minister's

plans.

 

Lets hope they rip up the extra protection and immunity for bankers and financial institutions first (err what else was there???)

[Guest]

The European Court of Human Rights has become a danger

to British democracy and an affront to human rights. While

we are members of the EU, and therefore the ECHR, the

British Supreme Court is supreme in name only. In reality it

is subservient.

 

We would be better off without the EU and the ECHR,

instead allowing British judges to decide how British laws

are implemented.

the courts had regard to the Convention prior to eu membership anyway. and wld prob continue to do so if out of the eu. (partic given that they drafted it). when considering a persons 'rights' vs the state/public authority. unless draconian laws are wanted. heres an eg, wld you think that the police covertly recording a confidential meeting between a solicitor and his client at the police station is at least a breach of privacy? not really an 'affront' there!

plus the EctHR adopts the 'margin of appreciation' giving some leeway to states to determine their own affairs before intervening. and they often do that. it is usually only the contentious headline grabbing decisions that get reported.

and, the courts' decisions are not technically binding on member states that requires a change of law. unlike the Euro Ct of Justice. which is prob a better one to focus on.