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joeguitar, you don't say how much you are owed. From 1 October the minimum owed has to be £5k. It's up from £750.You say you are having difficulty enforcing. Chances are that bankruptcy would be difficult too. You could end up out of pocket.

 

Hi, the amount owed is 50K plus costs. We've obtained a charging order on a property. We've just managed to serve a summons to attend court for questioning so we're going to see what, if anything, that reveals. Bankruptcy really is a last resort to be fair but I figured it wouldn't hurt doing some digging into how it works etc before we decide.

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Have you tried HCEOs? Doubt they'd get you 50k but might get something

 

Given the amount involved I personally would proceed with the bankruptcy. The deposit which you have to pay up front for the official receiver's costs (but should hopefully get back if the bankruptcy goes through) is in the region of 800quid and there will be other court costs on top of that, but as we are talking about 50k it is surely worth doing. I'm sure you would once again have fun and games trying to serve the statutory demand and later the bankruptcy petition on this person, but if he keeps evading personal service you'll ultimately be able to serve by post.

 

Bankruptcy would not necessarily mean the house gets sold, particularly if there is very little equity. But it sounds like it would be worth the gamble.

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Have you tried HCEOs? Doubt they'd get you 50k but might get something

 

Given the amount involved I personally would proceed with the bankruptcy. The deposit which you have to pay up front for the official receiver's costs (but should hopefully get back if the bankruptcy goes through) is in the region of 800quid and there will be other court costs on top of that, but as we are talking about 50k it is surely worth doing. I'm sure you would once again have fun and games trying to serve the statutory demand and later the bankruptcy petition on this person, but if he keeps evading personal service you'll ultimately be able to serve by post.

 

Bankruptcy would not necessarily mean the house gets sold, particularly if there is very little equity. But it sounds like it would be worth the gamble.

 

They have tried HCEOs.

From the OP's post of 13th May:

HCEO was one of the first enforcements we took.

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joeguitar, a charging order can be enforced. You apply to the court for an order for sale of the property. The problem is the court won't normally order an immediate sale if others, especially minors, would have to move out.When you make someone bankrupt there is a trustee-in-bankruptcy, i.e. an insolvency practitioner who is often an accountant. S/he can take a goodly slice of money realized and it has priority. Bankruptcy can be big business for accountants, lawyers and the government itself. But, again, a TIB would need an order for sale and this might not be granted You might be best off first trying to get an order for sale. If you can't get it neither can a TIB.

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  • 2 weeks later...
joeguitar, a charging order can be enforced. You apply to the court for an order for sale of the property. The problem is the court won't normally order an immediate sale if others, especially minors, would have to move out.When you make someone bankrupt there is a trustee-in-bankruptcy, i.e. an insolvency practitioner who is often an accountant. S/he can take a goodly slice of money realized and it has priority. Bankruptcy can be big business for accountants, lawyers and the government itself. But, again, a TIB would need an order for sale and this might not be granted You might be best off first trying to get an order for sale. If you can't get it neither can a TIB.

 

Thanks for the responses..yeah I'm considering the order or sale route. The house is empty as it was a rental property. We are in the process of trying to find out if its worth anything. We have served an order for questioning however I highly doubt they will attend the first hearing. Preparing myself for more fun and games attempting a second time.

 

On a side note I wonder if you might know the answer to this question..

 

Another course of action we're considering is a 'Third Party Debt Order'. Given that the defendant lives at one address but also owns a second property, can we ask the court to ask the third party to take this into consideration. Altho we have bank account details we don't actually know which address they would be registered too? Any thoughts?

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Hi all,

 

I just wanted to confirm that I have managed to have the spelling of the name corrected. I filed an N244 and requested it be dealt without a hearing. The fee as confirmed from our local court was £50. Provided a couple of documents to support correct spelling. Pretty straight forward. Thanks for the assistance. I have another thread dealing with other aspects of this case so this thread can be closed by admin if needed. Thanks again.

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  • 2 months later...

HI all,

 

I have an N39 (Order to Obtain Information) to serve on a debtor.

 

I have already had the debtor in court previously for questioning regarding the same matter. I was lucky to catch him off guard when serving personally the first time. I've decided to take him back in for further questioning as I'm not satisfied with his response.

 

My problem now is serving a second time is proving very difficult. The debtor is evading service. His family are protecting him, even though he is clearly in the property.

 

I read that I could possibly write to the court to request an alternate method of service.

 

Does anybody have any experience of this?

 

From what I understand I need to show/prove that the debtor is being evasive.

 

Any thoughts on what constitutes evasive etc?

 

Any thoughts welcome

 

Regards

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  • 3 months later...

Hi all,

 

Apologies if this is in the wrong place..feel free to move admin.

 

I'll try to summarize situation..

 

I am a creditor. I have a charging order on a property. There is a mortgage on property

The debtor became bankrupt in September 2015

I'm dealing with Official Receiver who wrote to mortgage company regarding property.

Mortgage lender states 'I can confirm that we have not taken this property into possession, however a possession order was granted 23 July 2015'

 

Can anybody shed any light on what this means?

 

The property has been empty for 12months. I would assume if a lender was granted a possession order' then they would take the property into possession as soon as possible.

 

Any comments or thoughts welcome.

 

Regards

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Well, it would depend when the charging order was put on the property in terms of the Sept 2015 bankruptcy, in terms of which proprietary interest has priority. I don't think the possession order is the issue here, it could be the property is being held by the lender for another purpose. Perhaps the property is not being sold because of problems selling it. I would look at the land register or call the land registrar up for details.

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Well, it would depend when the charging order was put on the property in terms of the Sept 2015 bankruptcy, in terms of which proprietary interest has priority. I don't think the possession order is the issue here, it could be the property is being held by the lender for another purpose. Perhaps the property is not being sold because of problems selling it. I would look at the land register or call the land registrar up for details.

 

Hi thanks for the reply,

 

Everything regarding the charging order is fine. Ive seen the deeds and it all looks fairly normal i.e mortgage lender first charge, me second charge etc.

 

I guess what I'm trying to understand is why a bank who were granted possession 23rd July would still not of actually taken possession yet.

 

The only reason for them not to actually take possession in my mind i if the person that owns the property suddenly started to pay the arrears etc. Or the bank dragging their feet I guess.

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Equity

 

 

Well, although law is strict, in an ever-developing area of the 'equitable jurisdiction' (formerly equitable courts going right back to the 1600s), equity runs alongside law. In equity a possession could be delayed for months, for instance, as you say, to allow arrears to be paid off: there's a judge type law for this, I think it's called the Administration of Justice Act 1972/ 1973. In equity, the court gives the borrower a very broad discretion.

 

 

At this point though, it's merely speculation that this has happened.

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Hi thanks for the reply,

 

Everything regarding the charging order is fine. Ive seen the deeds and it all looks fairly normal i.e mortgage lender first charge, me second charge etc.

 

I guess what I'm trying to understand is why a bank who were granted possession 23rd July would still not of actually taken possession yet.

 

The only reason for them not to actually take possession in my mind i if the person that owns the property suddenly started to pay the arrears etc. Or the bank dragging their feet I guess.

 

 

Would the official receiver not be able to advise ?

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The problem is there are potentially 3 interests. First, the secured creditor is the first bank/ mortgage. Is there any equity (profit) on the home if there is under the law the bank must receive the best possible price, and not through auction. The bank may also be permitting time for the property owner to sell his/ her property so as not to lose the equity. Next, there is The Op's Charging Order v the Receiver's interest (for other creditors where applicable. The property also subject to the bankruptcy could be tied up under the Insolvency Act 1986 (as amended), as it will be a private 'dwelling.' The Receiver has 3 years to take the property but may not choose to do so. It just depends how much the bankrupt is in arrears and whether he/ she is or, in the near future, will be in a position to pay it off.

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Thank you for the responses.

 

Well, although law is strict, in an ever-developing area of the 'equitable jurisdiction' (formerly equitable courts going right back to the 1600s), equity runs alongside law. In equity a possession could be delayed for months, for instance, as you say, to allow arrears to be paid off: there's a judge type law for this, I think it's called the Administration of Justice Act 1972/ 1973. In equity, the court gives the borrower a very broad discretion.

 

An interesting read. Fairly in line with what I thought. Unfortunately it means the chances of me finding anything out in the near future are slim. The property owner wont respond. The bank won't speak to me for data protection and when the Official Receiver contacted the bank it took them 7 weeks to respond and even then their response was vague at best and didn't clarify anything.

 

Would the official receiver not be able to advise ?

I'm in contact with them but its like playing email tennis. As mentioned above it took them 7 weeks to get a response and that was vague.

 

 

As for equity, to the best of my knowledge the mortgage owed is approx 40k. Arrears at the time of the court date when possession was granted was approx 2k. House last valued 2 years ago at around 85k. When I received the information from the official receiver at the start they have not included the property as an asset in the bankruptcy because between the mortgage lender and myself then there will be no equity left over.

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. As for equity, to the best of my knowledge the mortgage owed is approx 40k. Arrears at the time of the court date when possession was granted was approx 2k. House last valued 2 years ago at around 85k. When I received the information from the official receiver at the start they have not included the property as an asset in the bankruptcy because between the mortgage lender and myself then there will be no equity left over.

 

 

 

The creditor ought to inform you of your position yes, as essentially the estate has been transferred to him/ her: Insolvency Act 1986. Was it a co-owned property, do you know?

 

This is why we use the term equity from the ancient equitable systems incidentally. Equity is the difference between the mortgage owed and the value the property is worth. 85k doesn't sound a whole lot. On the approximate values, as 85k minus 40k is 45, the equity is 45k. However, the 2k is relatively small when compared to £45k equity. It seems strange that the occupants have vacated the property yet the lender has still not sold it. It may have been a turnaround of events whereby the bank is giving time for the owner to try and sell the property albeit they have been repossessed, or allotting an amount of time to pay the debt.

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The creditor ought to inform you of your position yes, as essentially the estate has been transferred to him/ her: Insolvency Act 1986. Was it a co-owned property, do you know?

 

This is why we use the term equity from the ancient equitable systems incidentally. Equity is the difference between the mortgage owed and the value the property is worth. 85k doesn't sound a whole lot. On the approximate values, as 85k minus 40k is 45, the equity is 45k. However, the 2k is relatively small when compared to £45k equity. It seems strange that the occupants have vacated the property yet the lender has still not sold it. It may have been a turnaround of events whereby the bank is giving time for the owner to try and sell the property albeit they have been repossessed, or allotting an amount of time to pay the debt.

 

The property was owned solely by the bankrupt. It was actually vacant at the time of the possession order being granted as it was being rented out and nobody had lived there for almost 12months. It's just sat empty all this time.

 

Do you think it's worth me writing a letter to the mortgage lender with proof of my interest in the property and asking whats going on ?

 

Yeah I agree the lender may have agreed more time to pay or agreed on a reasonable amount to pay back. I guess this is what I need to know.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi All,

 

If this is in the wrong forum feel free to move.

 

In short I have a charging order for a property to the sum of £40k

 

I am aware that a possession order was granted to the Mortgage Lender of said property in July 2015 however as of 8 weeks ago the bank have not acted on it. There still appears to be no movement.

 

My question is, because I have an interest in the property, is there any legal ground that allows me to request information from the bank as to there intentions? i.e are they planning on taking possession or has an arrangement been made etc

 

I have written to both the bank and the defendant who owns the property but had no response.

 

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

 

If you require more details then let me know

 

Regards

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three threads merged on this on-going saga for history.

 

 

dx

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NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

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If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Should be ex parte (without hearing ) fee is £50.

 

https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/creditor-and-claimant-questions-and-answers/can-I-change-the-defendant-name.aspx

 

You will have to have the Notice of Judgment re served in the correct spelling.

 

Andy

 

What would happen if you didn't correct the spelling? TB

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Aa far as I know the mortgage lenders file and decision on what they may do next is confidential and you have no more right to know than any other unsecured creditor.

 

Hi Ganymede, yeah thats pretty much my understanding on the issue. The only action i can see left is having him summoned back to court to give the information under oath. A difficult and time consuming affair. Was just hoping there may of been a quicker more painless route with the bank :)

 

Thanks

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  • 1 month later...

HI all,

 

Although this relates to my previous thread Ive started a new one as I felt it was a standalone question. Feel free to merge if needed.

 

Is it possible to apply to court to have a bank release information regarding the status of a mortgage?

 

Thanks

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