Charge notice for entering a car park through the wrong entrance (past a "No Entry" sign)

[phuio]

Hi,

 

I just received a £100 charge notice (or £60 if I pay quickly) from a company called NPE for entering a small shopping centre car park through the wrong entrance (past a no entry sign). This is a shopping centre I have used for many years, but in the last couple of weeks, this company has started operating.

 

I went back and checked the car park and can see two new No Entry signs (at lower level than they would be on a public highway), so you could argue I should have seen these. However, the sign containing details of the penalty is small text that is completely unreadable from a car.

 

Anyone got any advice on how to handle this?

 

Thanks,

Richard

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]55267[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55268[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55269[/ATTACH]

[f16]

Was this a windscreen ticket or number plate capture ?

 

What date was the "offence" ?

 

What date did letter (if any) arrive ?

 

Oh yeah forgot my manners !!! Welcome to CAG

[phuio]

Was this a windscreen ticket or number plate capture ?

 

What date was the "offence" ?

 

What date did letter (if any) arrive ?

 

Oh yeah forgot my manners !!! Welcome to CAG

 

Thanks for the welcome!

 

The "offence" was 3rd of Jan, letter arrived 6th Jan, with photo of my car entering the car park.

[f16]

They are in time.

 

What size are the signs ? You may need to measure them.

Min size should be 450 X 450mm.

 

I've never seen this "offence" on here before but others far wiser than me will guide you

[f16]

From what I can see The signage appears too small and there are no road markings either.

 

Is there any way you can enlarge the photos ?

[ericsbrother]

for starters the sign isnt a recognised no entry sign so how on earth are you supposed to know what it represents? Secondly, as any signage for a contract ahould be at the point of entry so as you didnt pass the point of entry you cant have read the contract you weer invited to enter into so no contract. they also go on about liquidated damages so they are obviously clairvoyant, knowing the outcome of the Beavis appeal before even the judge making the determination!

I would appeal their claim pointing these things out and asking for a POPLA code if they reject your appeal. Appeal by saying you are the keeper of the vehicle (that is who they have contacted)

[armadillo71]

Are they quoting the POFA 2012?

 

The act is intended to enable keeper liability, if certain criterea are followed , to recover PARKING charges...

 

Post up a redacted copy of the NTK please.

[phuio]

Many thanks for all the suggestions. I attach the NTK as requested, plus a better version of the sign...

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]55278[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55279[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55280[/ATTACH]

[ericsbrother]

I would be asking the local council for the planning order/consent that makes the change to the use of the entrance/exit along with details of the original planning consent. No planning order then no one way entrance. Also NPE are claiming trespass so that means the land owner is either claiming damages from you or money for the breach from them, they cant claim for damages for trespass from you but they are obliged to pay the LL every time you do it so that would be a red rag to a bull for me. A day driving round in circles would bankrupt them. It is like sending out letters saying if your read this letter you owe me £100 and claiming a contract is formed by doing so. Unfair contractual terms.

They wouldnt stand a chance of geting anything in court as the signage is inadequate to form a contract, both for position and content.

[phuio]

Thanks for that idea, ericsbrother.

 

Development today: I went back to measure the sign and the penalty signs have been removed. Spoke to a local councillor who has got involved after complaints and she says the company removed them. So I am taking this to be a tacit acknowledgement that they know they can't enforce it. I'm certainly not paying and we will see if they try and take it further.

[renegadeimp]

Read the sign. Theres so much wrong with it its laughable.

[Guest]

the signs have been removed? that says it all

[f16]

Thanks for that idea, ericsbrother.

 

Development today: I went back to measure the sign and the penalty signs have been removed. Spoke to a local councillor who has got involved after complaints and she says the company removed them. So I am taking this to be a tacit acknowledgement that they know they can't enforce it. I'm certainly not paying and we will see if they try and take it further.

 

Well done phuio,

 

Pay them "jack $h1t". ........

 

"Take it further". Ooooohh I hope they try that !!!!!

They've more chance of making snowballs in Hell

[ericsbrother]

Take picture of lack of signage and then you can ask for "strict proof" of claim should they wish to keep begging from you.

We all know that it will go nowhere but do respond forcefully to any further letters so they know that you arent going to roll over and pay up.

[armadillo71]

It's made the press;

 

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/motorists_stung_for_using_wrong_entrance_to_norwich_car_park_but_complaints_spark_u_turn_1_3911665

[ericsbrother]

my favourite quote from NPE is that people have been "imploring them to do something about it" since before they even had a contract with the landlord. They are either liars, clairvoyants or the people locally are sending out millions of random requests and some of them arrived at NPE's office, who then, as an act of altruisn offered to save the lives of everyone in Norfolk by the simple placement of an unintelligble sign. I know about the rumours about people from Norfolk (my grandfather came from Sidestrand near Cromer so I am also tarred with this brush )but even if you make some adjustments accordingly that is still a load of cobblers.

[phuio]

Yep, I cannot believe anyone asked them to do anything about it. It's such a quiet car park and easy enough to navigate. It's probably far more dangerous expecting people to drive on to the main road, then immediately off it.

 

Anyway, good to see it make the local newspaper.

 

Thanks to everyone on the forum for their suggestions.