CPM No Windscreen PCN? - GREENWiCH PENINSULA (PATROL) - CUTTER LANE, EAST GREENWICH. GREENWICH PENINSULA, LONDON. SE10 0XX: on 26/01/2023

[westridge]

Back in January, my son have to drop off a parcel in Cutter Lane near the 02 arena.

We received a PCN from CPM.

I have attached all redacted letters referring to this and an image the parking sign.

The road constantly has UBERS and food delivery people parking all day.

The image was taken by a camera positioned on a pole. 

As usual any help offered will be appreciated.

 

cutter lane parking sign.pdf

Document_Cutter_lane.pdf

[Nicky Boy]

Hi,

 

Could you please fill out the sticky below so the guys can advise further...

 

 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Nicky Boy

[Nicky Boy]

Just had a quick look at your upload.

From the pics and the text these look like manual "patrol" pics.

Which means they haven't respected POFA statutory "timing" guidelines for issuing PCN's.

(They're on a complete loser!)

 

Was a ticket left on your windscreen?

Edited April 21, 2023 by Nicky Boy
typo

[dx100uk]

pdf sorted

[lookinforinfo]

The PCN is not compliant with the protection of freedoms Act 2012.

1] the parking period should have a starting time and a finishing time. It is not "the period immediately preceding the incident time." As that could be anywhere from 10 seconds to several minutes and there is a five minute consideration period so no breach of the conditions have been proved to have been broken.

 

2] Under Schedule 4 S9 [2][e][1] they are supposed to ask the keeper to pay the charge and here they haven't

altogether.

3] they have missed out the words in parentheses in Sch 4 S9 [2] [f][2] altogether.

 

This means that they cannot transfer the charge from the driver to the keeper. Only the driver can be liable and anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your car. So they will have their work cut out trying to prove who was driving. 

 

On top of that the signs that you have shown are prohibitory and as they are stopping you from doing something it is not possible to form a contract with motorists on that basis. 

 

In addition as you were noticed by a patrol instead of ANPR cameras they should have placed the ticket on your windscreen not sent it by post as Nicky Boy has already said. When they do a windscreen ticket it is addressed to the driver who then has 28 days to pay the ticket. Should the driver not pay, after 28 days they have to send the keeper a PCN which allows another 28 days before they can take any legal action. Doing it their way with you they have cut the time down by 28 days plus they expect the keeper will be more liable to pay than the driver.

 

PS Could you please complete the questions asked on page 2 to further help your case.

Edited April 21, 2023 by lookinforinfo

[westridge]

no ticket was left on the windscreen

 

Which part do you need me to fill out 1 or 2?

1) For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

2) For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

(must be received within 14 days from the Incident)

[Nicky Boy]

Windscreen ticket please.

[westridge]

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

 

1 The date of infringement? 26/01/2023
 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] No
 

If you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

Has there been a response? Give answer here
 

Please AS A PDFFILE  ONLY ..post it up as well, suitably redacted. - follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - .........DONT ! seek advice on your topic first.

 

Have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] yes
 

What date is on it? Yes
 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? YES
 

[scan up BOTHSIDES to ONE PDF of the PCN and your NTK - follow the upload guide] please LEAVE IN LOCATION AND ALL DATES/TIMES/£'s

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] Yes
 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] Give answer here
 

5 Who is the parking company? UK Car Park Management (CPM)
 

6. Where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Cutter Lane, Greenwich Penisula

[Nicky Boy]

Thanks,

 

As you've already seen on this thread, they  have got things completely wrong.

 

They will undoubtedly now bombard you with numerous "scary" letters.

 

The advice is to ignore everything, until/unless you get a "letter of claim".

If you get anything you're not sure about, just upload it here for advice.

 

In the meantime, you should really read up on a few other threads so you know the usual routine and find out about the parking spivs you're dealing with.

 

Start with the "PPC success" section. (Read the most recent first as new tactics are always coming up).

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

Open.

[westridge]

I have finally received my letter before action from Gladstones as attached

Gladstones.pdf

[honeybee13]

Time to write a snotty letter then. Do a search of this forum for examples and then post up what you propose sending, we'll help you to refine it.

HB

[westridge]

 

 

I propose to send the below. Is it ok? please feel free to amend.

Dear Gladstones,

Thank you for your letter.

Your clients (UK Car Park Management) Parking Charge Notice states that the “PCN” was issued by a “Patrol” yet no “PCN” was attached to the vehicle, furthermore, had the “PCN” been attached to the vehicle it should have been addressed to the driver giving 28 days to pay the “PCN” charge this was not done.

Your clients Parking Charge Notice (UK Car Park Management) dated 27^th January 2023 state that the “PCN has not been paid in full” and is demanding money from myself the registered one day later.

Your clients Parking Charge Notice also states the parking period is immediately preceding to the time stated above, as your client has not provided a start and finish time on the “PCN” the “PCN” is not enforceable.

[dx100uk]

thats not a snotty letter and it gives away your cards...dont tell them whats wrong.

pcn addressed to the driver? they dont and will never know who was driving..

[FTMDave]

I think you mistake the point of the snotty letter.

UKCPM and Gladstones know their claim is utter tosh.  It's a waste of time to point that out to them, they know already.  The idea of a snotty letter is to show you're not scared of them and would be big, big trouble for them if they did try court, so best to give you up as a bad job and go and find a mug to fleece instead.  So how about -

Dear Will and John,

cheers for your Letter Before Claim.  I rolled around on the floor in laughter at the thought that you actually expected me to take that tripe seriously and then cough up!

C'mon lads, read the PCN properly.  You know and I know and now you know that I know why these claims are total pants.

Your greedy client couldn't resist going for £70 Unicorn Food Tax.  Epic fail.  Judges don't like these made up amounts, do they?

I see you've been telling porkies about solicitors costs' again to boot.

Your client can either drop this foolishness now or get a good hiding in court.  Up to them.  I quite fancy a well overdue holiday this winter and your client financing it after an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) would do nicely.

You should also remind UK Car Park Management that THEY will be the ones paying for my luvverly winter sunshine holiday... on top of your dodgy legal bill!

I look forward to your deafening silence.

COPIED TO UK CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LTD

If there are no further comments in about a week invest in two 2nd class stamps and get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office.

[Nicky Boy]

Suggestion added above in red.

Try and make it more personal to UKPC...?

[westridge]

Thanks guys, I appreciate your help.

[FTMDave]

I thoroughly agree with Nick's suggestion to make it more personal, this all helps in showing you as someone who has done their homework and would hit them in the wallet. 

Send off the two letters when you want.

[FTMDave]

For a claim of £170, solicitors' costs are capped at £50.  Gladstones are lying when they pretend the costs are £80, and they do this regularly.  If you have time on your hands, write to the SRA and complain  https://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/report-solicitor/

The SRA will do nothing effective as it is an old boys' network, but they will go through the motions and ask Gladstones for an explanation which will annoy them - and make you stand out again as a pain in the backside who it is best to leave alone.

[westridge]

Have just sent an email to the SRA

 

[Nicky Boy]

Dont waste any time now westy

[westridge]

Gladstones have received a slap on the wrist from the SRA for the "technical error" in calculating their costs and have taken "all necessary corrective action". 

I have also received a letter from Gladstones apologising for their mistake but also reminding me I have to cough up or go to court.  

 

2023-12-07 Gladstones - Re PCN - opps we over estimted court costs - but you still must pay the pcn of £170.pdf

[dx100uk]

[FTMDave]

A technical error, eh?

An error they've made in about 50 (as a guestimate) other threads here.  Just in the other threads the motorist didn't complain. 

Well done on giving them some grief.

 

[Nicky Boy]

Note for future... always complain to SRA!