UK CPM Vanishing Windscreen PCN - no permit - Phoenix Avenue, Greenwich Peninsula SE10 0ER

[privateparkinghater]

Hi

I received a parking charge notice on Phoenix Avenue, Greenwich Peninsula on 06/09/2023.

I was parked in the residence permit bay (approximately 5 minutes) to drop off 2 passengers. I left the bay straight after.

On 13/09/2023, a parking charge notice arrived with reason: No Permit.

I believe it is unfair for this to have been issued and would like to find out more on what I could do.

I have filled in the questionnaire to save time.

The questionnaire is for ANPR although photographs from the PCN appear to be taken from ground level and the letter mentions 'operator'.

Letter (and answers) are attached anyway, as well as parking restrictions sign (taken from PCN photos)

please see below:

1 Date of the infringement 06/09/2023

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 08/09/2023

3 Date received 13/09/2023

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Y

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Y

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N

7 Who is the parking company? UK Car Parking Management

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Pheonix Avenue, Greenwich, SE10 0ER

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA
 

Thank you.

8Sep23_parkingchargenotice.pdf parking_restrictions.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

Hi and welcome to  the Forum. 

Thank you for filling out the details. You said you dropped off a  couple of passengers.Are you a taxi driver and if so do you own your cab or do you rent it?

I have looked at the PCN and it does not comply with the Protection of freedoms Act 2012. for a couple of reasons.

1] They are supposed to specify the period of parking. they haven't. Instead they have talked of an incident time and then later a period of parking which just talks about some unspecified time just before the incident. Could you please specify the times on the photos.

2] under Schedule 4 Section 9 [2][e] MET are supposed to ask the keeper to pay the charge or to inform  Met who the driver is and pass the PCN on to him. As they didn't it means that the keeper cannot be held liable for the debt.

Met are chancing it here. You only stopped for a few minutes and you were not parked so they an trot on.

Please confirm my question about whether you own or hire your car.

[FTMDave]

As well as the POFA pig's ear that LFI explains, you are allowed a 5-minute consideration period to read the signs. 

The fleecers say you were there at 20:54.  Can you make out the time stamps on the two photos?

[dx100uk]

as it was an operator? capture (or someone paid an illegal backhander to take photos for UKPC?) the PCN should have been attached to your windscreen not sent in the post.

 

[privateparkinghater]

Thanks for the responses, really appreciate the useful information. To answer your questions:

• The car is not a hire car, it is my own personal vehicle. I am not a taxi/private hire driver. By passengers, I meant friends. Apologies, I should have made that clear. 
• 3 pictures were provided with the PCN, one of which is already attached (parking_restrictions.pdf). I have attached a photo_evidence pdf. Here are date/timestamps
  • Pic 1: 06-09-2023 20:43:26
  • Pic 2: 06-09-2023 20:45:06
  • Pic 3: parking_restrictions.pdf: 06-09-2023 20:53:23
• No PCN was attached to my windscreen, nor did I see the operator near me/approach my car. The pictures were taken at ground level, evidently by an operator based on the difference in angle in both pictures. 

Once again I appreciate the responses. Please let me know if I have enough information to draft an appeal or what I should do next if not appeal. 
Thank you. 

photo_evidence.pdf

[dx100uk]

typical ukpc vanishing windscreen scan invoice then.

it should have been placed on the windscreen not sent in the post

and you should have received nothing more until the NTK between 29 - 56 so they broken so many POFA 2012 rules already ...

lots of threads on these already 

the others will advise better than me

but DO NOTHING UNTIL/UNLESS you ever receive a letter of claim is the bottom line

[privateparkinghater]

I see.

The PCN letter and mentioning of operator but no windscreen ticket, is what threw me off. Very shameful of them to be pulling such moves, but helpful to know others have also dealt with this. In cases like this, are defences successful?

Also, from my research I gathered that a CCJ would only be issued if I do not respond to the letter of claim. So ignoring everything before that shouldn't pose a risk? Looking to take on some borrowing soon so I would not like this to affect my eligibility. 

Thank you.

[FTMDave]

Pretty knackered now but will reply properly in the morrow.

The only way you can get a CCJ is if they send you a Letter of Claim, then start a court claim, and then win at the court hearing, and then you defy the court and refuse to pay.

CCJs exist to punish people who defy court orders.

Even if you lose in court, but pay within the 30 days that the court orders, you won't get a CCJ.

Not that these imbeciles would have the gonads to start a court case for such a ridiculous claim!

[privateparkinghater]

Appreciate the help despite it being so late.

I also need to get some rest but very annoyed as I almost never violate any parking restrictions and this ticket was issued so unfairly. 

I'll ignore these scummy money grabbers until they somehow manage to take the PCN somewhere.. 

Thanks for clearing up the ccj info.

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, dx100uk said:

DO NOTHING UNTIL/UNLESS you ever receive a letter of claim is the bottom line

 

[lookinforinfo]

It could have helped had you been  driving a hire car. But in your case you weren't parking you were taking people to the area. You are no more liable to pay than a delivery driver or the milk man. No point in appealing since you were  the driver and they won't cancel since that would allow you to get off scot free. 

Far better to reject your appeal  and hope you might cave in to their demands .They have no reason to ticket you since you were there such a short time. The signage says no parking not no stopping I guess.

[FTMDave]

So to sum up. 

The fleecers' case is rubbish.  They haven't established keeper liability as LFI has explained.  You did not overstay the 5-minute consideration period - in fact their photos show you staying for 01:40.

They won't do court.  And if they did they would lose.

However, they don't care about any of that.  Their disgusting business model is to bully motorists into paying money they don't owe.  They will now destroy half the Amazon sending various threats, which are to be laughed at.

But as dx says - come back here if you ever get a Letter of Claim, that's the moment to act.

[Homer67]

On 14/09/2023 at 01:00, privateparkinghater said:

 this ticket was issued so unfairly. 

It's not a 'ticket' it is a speculative invoice from a private company, nothing more.

[privateparkinghater]

Thanks dx, LFI and FTM for the info. Will ignore them till the LOC. 
I only recently realised there was a difference between Parking Charge Notice and Penalty Charge Notice. Before that, I just assumed they were all 'tickets' of some sort haha. 

Thanks all.