PCM 2*ANPR PCN's - gym terminal faulty? - overstay - JD Gym - Manningham Retail Park, Bradford

[ElDiego10]

Hi,

 

I received a PCN from JD Gym in Bradford about overstaying in the car park. The way it works is you have 2 hours free parking, and if you want to stay up to 3 hours, you have to input your number plate in a tablet device. 

 

I received a PCN a couple of weeks ago for a car, which I did take to the gym and they said they will see what they can do - most likely they won't do anything as I haven't heard from them as of yet. I did forget to input it on this day though.

 

Today I have received a second PCN - however, the one I received today is not registered in my name but my fathers. Question is - do I inform them that he was not driving and give my details as the driver of the car on the date? The other thing is, I'm sure I did input the reg as I always do this. 

 

The other thing is I received the letter after the 14 day period, would you recommend writing an appeal letter to them to explain this and ask for it to be cancelled? Or is this a waste of time? 

 

I have read up a lot on this regarding PCN's and understand to ignore until, or, if court papers do arrive. The other thing is I'm not the only one from the gym receiving threat o grams, a couple of others who I know have also received them even after inputting their number plate. I'm not sure if I should go to the gym and say to them that I did input it and ask them to get it cancelled (something I doubt they would do anyway).

 

On both occasions, I did not overstay the 3 hour limit.

 

Any advice or assistance is more than welcome. 

 

Thanks.

Edited March 30, 2023 by ElDiego10

[FTMDave]

So presumably for the first PCN you were using your car, and the second time a second car which is registered to your father.  Right?

[ElDiego10]

That is correct, yes. 

[FTMDave]

Can you please post up the two PCNs, redacted of your personal details.  Then we can have a look at the 14-day thing and if you should inform them your father wasn't driving.

[ElDiego10]

Both PCN's uploaded.

 

 

2023-03-20PCM PCN for 2023-03-15.pdf

 

 

No problem - envelope uploaded (for BMW) - nothing specific on it. 

 

I don't have one for my car - as that was last week. 

 

2023-03-22 PCN NTK re PCN 2023-03-16.pdf

[FTMDave]

Sorry to keep firing questions, but there is a reason.  Were the envelopes postmarked?

 

Thanks.

 

On 30/03/2023 at 10:22, ElDiego10 said:

The other thing is I received the letter after the 14 day period, would you recommend writing an appeal letter to them to explain this and ask for it to be cancelled? Or is this a waste of time?

Yes, it would be a waste of time.  Their trade association's Code of Practice allows this sending out after 14 days.  That's apart from the fact they are charlatans and never accept appeals ever.

 

Presumably they have lied about the dates they sent their bilge, one of the PCN given dates is seven days after the event, one is eight days.

 

That will make it harder to use the "no keeper liability" defence if by some horror this did get to court.

 

There are come Caggers who are absolute experts on the Protection of Freedoms Act, so wait for them to come on, don't rush into telling the parasites you were driving your dad's car.

 

In any case how important would it be to remove your father from the loop?  Would he be up for fighting the fleecers?

 

Probably your best bet would be to push the gym to cooperate and call off their dogs.  If they're faffing around, put it in writing.  I've just tried to find the CEO address, but have drawn a blank.

[dx100uk]

4 hours ago, ElDiego10 said:

I received a PCN from JD Gym

no its from a private parking scammer

PCM.

 

can you please fill this out twice

 

 

you might also want to remove the PCN numbers from your uploads.

 

dx

 

[ElDiego10]

Questionnaire for the first ticket - which was my car.

 

1 Date of the infringement 15/03/2023

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 22/03/23
 

 3 Date received 24/03/23
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Y
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] no
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
 

7 Who is the parking company? Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Manningham Retail Park, JD Gyms, Bradford
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IPC

 

Questionnaire for second ticket - not my car.

 

1 Date of the infringement 16/03/2023

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 22/03/2023
 

 3 Date received 30/03/23
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Y
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] no
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
 

7 Who is the parking company? Parking Control Management (UK) Ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Manningham Retail Park, JD Gyms, Bradford
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IPC

 

I have spoken to the gym about it, and they said they can't do anything as they don't manage it. A few people who have had tickets have had the same reply from them as well, so I don't have much confidence in them doing much about it.

 

Regarding my father, he won't be up to fighting the fleecers for this and/or, if it does go to court, he doesn't want to.

 

Also - anyone else have any ideas regarding the letter coming after 14 day period?

Even if it is fully ignored, maybe something I can rely on if it does go to court?

[FTMDave]

19 minutes ago, ElDiego10 said:

Regarding my father, he won't be up to fighting the fleecers for this and/or, if it does go to court, he doesn't want to.

Well in that case he needs to either fill in the fleecers' form if there is one, or send a letter, quoting the PCN number, and informing them of your name & address as the driver.  Do that tomorrow, invest in a 2nd class stamp, and make damn sure you get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.  That will remove him from the loop.

 

32 minutes ago, ElDiego10 said:

I have spoken to the gym about it, and they said they can't do anything as they don't manage it. A few people who have had tickets have had the same reply from them as well, so I don't have much confidence in them doing much about it.

They may well be telling the truth.  Do customers of other businesses use the car park?

 

36 minutes ago, ElDiego10 said:

Also - anyone else have any ideas regarding the letter coming after 14 day period? Even if it is fully ignored, maybe something I can rely on if it does go to court?

I'm confused here.  From your stickies one invoice arrived after nine days and the other after 14 days.  That is within the POFA timeframe.

[ElDiego10]

Forgive my ignorance, but I've read that if it comes after 14 days, then it, in theory, should be invalid? 

 

There are 2 sections of the car park, one is for the gym and the other section is for some shops there such as food warehouse etc and it is a spill out for gym parking when it gets busy.

 

I will write a letter regarding the other car today and get it sent off tomorrow second stamp postage with proof of posting - thanks. (we live at the same address)

 

I can't seem to edit my post above to reupload the PCN's with removed PCN number?

Edited April 2, 2023 by ElDiego10

[honeybee13]

If you upload the PCNs to a new post, we can move them for you.

 

HB

[FTMDave]

7 hours ago, ElDiego10 said:

Forgive my ignorance, but I've read that if it comes after 14 days, then it, in theory, should be invalid?

7 hours ago, FTMDave said:

From your stickies one invoice arrived after nine days and the other after 14 days.  That is within the POFA timeframe.

 

[lookinforinfo]

It doesn't say on any of their signs that parking is available for three hours with the gym. can you prove that. Also how does the gym get the info to UKPCM which motorists did sign their register. 

Could it be a case that you entered your reg. number wrong or the gym when sending your reg. number to PCM made a mistake/.?

[dx100uk]

thread tidied

 

wrong reg..yep 

[brassnecked]

Wrong reg  could be the reason presumably is the car VRM entered into an electronic Terminal at the gym or a written sign in sheet at reception?

 

[ElDiego10]

So a wrong reg is very plausible, I am human after all and unfortunately do make mistakes.

 

For the first one, I most likely did forget to enter the reg in on the day  - still to hear from the gym regarding that, I'm going to go today and ask them, I think of the the guys said it can be reduced to £30 - would you recommend paying it if that was the case? Personally, I don't see why one should pay anything for free car parking.

 

It is an ipad at the front desk, I can take a pic of it today, it can be clunky and slow tbh.

 

I can also get a pic of the signage, which does say 3 hours at the gym once number plate is entered into the ipad. 

[FTMDave]

I've had a look at Google Maps, and it's likely the gym are telling the truth and it was not them but the retail park who called the fleecers in.

 

I've tried to find a contact for the retail park but got nowhere.

 

 

[ElDiego10]

Yeah, I accept the gym are not in control of it tbh -  other JD Gyms like Leeds have their own car park and don't have any time limits. 

 

I'll grab some pics when I go there later today. For now, I haven't been using the car park at all, found a decent spot to leave the car and no time limit - thankfully! So shouldn't happen again.

[lookinforinfo]

You are still just within the two week period so you could still pay the £60 reduced fee. If the gym says you could pay £30 then they have more juice with PCM than they have indicated before.

If it was the case that you had got the reg. number wrong then paying £30 might be worth getting rid of the whole  situation that is ahead of you.

The only reason you get free parking is in exchange for observing the T&CS. The parking companies know that they have included in their contracts little points that make it almost impossible for some motorists to avoid breaking those T&Cs. Then they have to cough up around £100.

That is so much more profitable than collecting one or two pounds per motorist then employing people to go round to each car park to collect, count and bank the cash .

I am not saying that even if it was your mistake, and as yet that is by no means certain, that you should cough up since there  may be  other factors that could avoid you having to pay anything should it go to Court. But  it would have it all over and done with .

 

Are you able to show how you qualify for the extra hour?  Something like a letter from the gym stating that?

I have just noticed on your first post that you said you didn't enter your details on the gym's tablet which would mean that UKPCM were right in charging you £100.  Whether they have the necessary requirements in law to do that we do not know yet.

 

 

 

 

[ElDiego10]

I have some pictures of the sign but can’t upload it. Will figure doing out. 
 

I still haven’t heard about any reduced fee mind you from them yet. 

 

But as I said above for the extra hour it’s just putting in your numbers on the tablet in the gym and the sign says the same thing, 2 hours and 3 for gym users putting in their number plate in the tablet. 
 

I also don’t see how so much money being asked for is in line with any so called losses suffered? Especially at 1am at night in any case? It’s speculative at best. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by ElDiego10

[brassnecked]

They will rely on Beavis as to the fairness of the £100 but an I-Pad in a reception isn't really a robust method of entering details of a parked car.

[FTMDave]

Do you have proof of being a gym user?  Membership and/or payment receipts?

[ElDiego10]

Yes I have a membership, regular monthly payments going out.

 

Spoke to a guy who works in the gym, basically affirming they have nothing to do with the car park and it is the retail park, and it is unfair. He did say that I'll have to speak to the main manager regarding the first car ticket if there is any info, I did say to him im 99% sure I put in my number plate for the BMW as I always do, he said send it to them, and appeal it at the same time. 

 

In short - gym dont have much to do with car park, and there is not much they can do but for the £30 - IF that happens that is. 

 

@brassnecked - would you advice that if I am offered the £30 - to pay it in that case? I know the forum has helped a lot of people, and tbh, if the advice here is that it wouldn't go in my favour, then thats fair and I'll take it on the chin.

[ElDiego10]

I’ve sent a quick letter regarding the BMW that dad wasn’t the driver and it arrived late. So will see what they come back with on that ground. I am prepared to give my details for this and go with it from there as well tbh. 

[FTMDave]

OK, but, I hope what was sent was like this -

 

On 02/04/2023 at 14:05, FTMDave said:

Well in that case he needs to either fill in the fleecers' form if there is one, or send a letter, quoting the PCN number, and informing them of your name & address as the driver.  Do that tomorrow, invest in a 2nd class stamp, and make damn sure you get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.