DWP claims JSA overpayment

[monmoy]

DWP can be statute barred but there is a lot of misconception about this. I'll strip it down.

 

They have 6 years to reclaim debt. If they don't claim within that period, the debt cannot be enforced in court. However, it can still be recovered by making deductions from prescribed benefit or state pension, regardless of how much time has passed.

 

In other words, if they haven't enforced it within 6 years then they can only get it back either voluntarily from the debtor or from the debtors benefits or state pension if they don't voluntarily repay the debt.

 

Well today I have received a letter from DWP, claiming that I owe over 6k pounds. They also said not to ignore the letter. If I cannot pay off the amount still I need to contact them and arrange a payment agreement. They also threated me saying I don't they will eiter pass this to debt collection agency or recover from my employer and this will affect my credit scoring. They also said they conted me before but as far as I know I claimed JSA back in 2008 for several weeks as I was made redundant so to keep my NI contribution I claimed JSA and after about 3 to 4 weeks later I found a job so infomed DWP and stopped JSA.

 

I would be grateful if you could please confirm whether they have the power to recover the sum from my current employer. Thanks very much for your attention.

 

Kind regards

Monmoy

[antone]

Hi, and welcome to CAG. I've moved your post to a new thread where you should get more replies.

 

To my mind, the first step would be to find out why they believe you owe this money. I mean, if your only claim to benefit was a few weeks JSA in 2008, it's hard to see how they'd be able to argue you owed them £6000.

 

I'd write to them asking for a full explanation, and be prepared to do a Subject Access Request if you don't get a satisfactory response. But in any case, before making any payments, you do need to ask them to substantiate their claim that you owe money. You are entitled to this information.

[monmoy]

Good morning! Please advise me on this as I am not sure what I should be doing?

DWP chasing me for JSA overpayment of over 6 thousands pounds since 2000. Back in 2005 they demanded me to pay the overpayment and I disagree with the figure of over 6k and eventually I went to the court. i lost my case. Then appealed on the decsion and judge heard my side of the story as I represented myself on the court (could not afford to hire any solicitor). I thought my apeal was accepted as I have not heard anything from DWP since.

 

Recently I received a letter from the DWP debt collection team demanding payment for the outstanding debt of 6k. The letter also states that not to ignore it, I must make the payment by 23th April, I need to contact them to stop further action being taken, if I cannot afford to pay this money I still need to contact them, they are still willing to discuss payment terms, and if they do not hear from me they will take the following actions:

1. recover this money directly from any earnings via my employer,

2. Recover this moeny through the courts

3. Refer my case to a private company for repayment collection

they also mentioned that I may have to pay additional costs if this happens and my future credit rating may be affected.

 

They also mentioned that they have contacted me regarding this but as far as I am concerned I have not recevied any letter regarding this from them.

 

I got it bit scared so i called them back and asked them to send me the breakdown. Please note, I was made redundant back in 2008 and I claimed JSA for about 4 weeks to keep my NI contribution going. Now what they said in the letter about recoving the overpayment, do they have the power to contact my employer to collect the debt, Can I fight my own corner at the court as I still not agree with the amount as their calculation is wrong. What legal rights do I have which will help to fight my own corner. Any advice please would be much appreciated. Thanks very much for your kind attention.

[antone]

With any benefit overpayment scenario, there are two key elements: fraud (which is a criminal matter), and overpayment (which is a civil matter). So before we can answer accurately, we need to know for sure if you have a conviction for benefit fraud. I ask this because you mention going to court, but it's not clear what these court proceedings related to - were they an attempt to collect a debt (civil) or criminal proceedings? Or did you appeal the overpayment to a Benefit Tribunal and lose? For that matter, did you appeal and win?

 

So, let's assume that they were civil proceedings and you were not convicted of fraud. A debt to the DWP is not, fundamentally, any different to a debt owed to anyone else - it could well be statute barred since it would seem that more than six years have passed since you last made a payment or acknowledged the debt. Is this the case? If a debt is statute barred, the creditor cannot take action through the courts, although they can still ask you to repay it.

 

And of course, the DWP has one tool it can use that other creditors can't - it can reclaim the debt from future benefits, including your State Pension.

 

Regarding your other questions, if you disagreed with the amount of the overpayment, you needed to appeal at the time. It's too late to do that now. They can't reclaim money from your wages without a court order, which they won't be able to get if the debt is statute barred.

[monmoy]

Thanks very much for your reply. Initially I had the proceedings at the Benefit Tribunal and lost. Then I was not happy with the decision as I did not get the opportunity to show my evidence. So I appealed against the benefit tribunla decision. I lost the appeal and I have not heard anything from them. I can confirm it was purely a civial matter as they over paid me. Now can they go to the court and get the court order to get the payment from my employer?

[antone]

Thanks very much for your reply. Initially I had the proceedings at the Benefit Tribunal and lost. Then I was not happy with the decision as I did not get the opportunity to show my evidence. So I appealed against the benefit tribunla decision. I lost the appeal and I have not heard anything from them. I can confirm it was purely a civial matter as they over paid me. Now can they go to the court and get the court order to get the payment from my employer?

 

OK, so this was dealt with by Benefit Tribunals - you did appeal the overpayment but lost, and exhausted all appeal options and no criminal fraud is involved.

 

In that case, whether or not they can go to the court (and seek an order to deduct money from your wages) depends on normal rules about statute barred debt. If you are in England or Wales, and have made no payment or acknowledgement of the debt for six years or more, the DWP cannot pursue it through the courts. Is this the case? (In Scotland, it would be five years.)

[Surfer01]

What are the circumstances regarding the overpayment because if you did everything correct and they made the mistake, it is classed as an official mistake and the debt is written off. We had this happen to us in 2010, but luckily I had kept copies and when we pointed out that we had given them the correct information, it was dropped. I made sure that we got that in writing!

[monmoy]

OK, so this was dealt with by Benefit Tribunals - you did appeal the overpayment but lost, and exhausted all appeal options and no criminal fraud is involved.

 

In that case, whether or not they can go to the court (and seek an order to deduct money from your wages) depends on normal rules about statute barred debt. If you are in England or Wales, and have made no payment or acknowledgement of the debt for six years or more, the DWP cannot pursue it through the courts. Is this the case? (In Scotland, it would be five years.)

 

Thanks again for your reply.

Yes I am from England so as per your comment DWP cannot pursue this through the courts.

 

Well in the DWP letter they did mention about getting a order from court so that they can deduct the money from my employer.

 

If it is not possible because of the statute barred then why would they mention about getting the court order

to get the money from my employer.

 

I just do not under stand.

 

If they take this in court then do I get another chance of fighting my case to recalculate the amount.

 

Say if I agree to pay of it then do I need to pay of the whole amount or can I offer a different amount depending on my affordability.

Do I need to submit my income and outgoing to them so that they can calculate my affordibility.

Can I just offer a one of payment or a fixed monthly amount against the original amount

and ask them to agree because that is what I can afford.

 

how do I go about it paying it off or pay part of it rather than the full amount.

 

My point is if they owe the amount then they should get it from me but they should get the right amount.

 

When I appealed i did offer to the judge to that I had saved x amount to pay of this debt

so please ask DWP to accept my offer but they refused and they wanted the full 6k.

 

I would be really grateful if you could please give me some advice on this.

 

Thanks very much for your attention.

Kind regards

 

Monmoy

[citizenB]

Some statute barred information for you..

 

 

Many DCAs will argue that limitation accrues from the time when the "default notice" is issued. It does not.

 

Limitation clock starts ticking from when the payment is due and not paid not when they send a default notice.

 

We see often that CRA entries will date 5 or 6 months ahead of when the payment was missed.

 

People need to be sure that they aren’t being hoodwinked and that the DCA is extending limitation so they can sue when they are not allowed to.

 

 

Statute barred timing is 6 years from cause of action in England and 5 years in Scotland.

 

However, it would appear that they could recover this debt from your state pension or other benefits.

 

If you take your Personal budget sheet to any court hearing, then it is likely that the court will set affordable payments. Although you might want to argue the statute of limitations first.

 

They should certainly be required to provide a breakdown of their calculations as to how they are claiming the amount they are, especially as it would appear to have been their error in the first place, how can they be trusted to be right in what they are claiming ?

 

 

 

 

[citizenB]

With the information above, you should be able to negotiate directly with DWP as you could point out that the debt is statute barred and they might have a hard time convincing a judge that it wasn't, however you are not trying to avoid repaying.. you just want to repay at an amount you can afford.

[citizenB]

Your offer letter could go along the lines of..

 

I am not trying to avoid repaying monies that I genuinely owe. However, I believe I am within my rights to request a full statement of account showing how you have arrived at the figure you claim I do owe.

 

If this were to proceed to litigation, then a court would almost certain agree that you need to provide a breakdown of your claim.

 

Furthermore, as cause of action was more than 6 years ago, a court might be inclined to agree that statute of limitations applies and this debt is now statute barred. As already advised, I am more than happy to repay a genuine liability, but require evidence of your figures.

 

 

 

 

 

once they have provided the breakdown, then you can work out how much you can afford to pay each month.

 

 

HTH

[monmoy]

Thanks very much for your advice.

 

Well last week I phoned and requested DWP to send the breakdown.

Today I received the breakdown from DWP.

They also provided the record of appeal decesion.

 

It clearly states that the decesion was made on the basis of probability

and credibility and I think it is totally one-sided because the amount is totally incorrect according to my calculation.

 

I am not sure whether I can say that I am willing to pay what I genuinely owe

because it was based on probability even though appeal court made the decesion on the amount.

 

If I want to write them back what should I say in the letter.

 

I would be grateful if you could please provide some advice on this. Thanks very much for your attention.

[monmoy]

Toay I have received a letter from DWP stating that they are considering for immediate transfer

to a private company for repayment collection for the overpayment.

 

More than six years have passed since I last made a payment or acknowledge the debt.

 

So reading varios threads in CAG i believe this is a Statue Barred.

 

It is purely a JSA overpayment and a civil matter.

 

In fact I wrote to them and told them that this is a Statue Barred and reminded them about the OFT debt collection guidance.

 

Now my question is can DWP legally pass my case to a private company for repayment collection?

 

To resolve this I really do not have the fund to repay them the amount I owe

so I do not know how I can proceed with this.

 

I am working full time so can I ask them to take the money from my NI contribution subject

to less pension payment when I claim state pension?

 

If I had the money in my bank I would pay off and resolve this anyway.

 

When DWP made the over payment claim it was all based on estimates as they could not get

hold of proper factual evidence against me.

 

When I made the apeal judge was not happy the way DWP gathered their evidence agaist me.

 

So eventually judge had to calculate the overpayment based on estimates and rejected DWP's initial amount.

 

Now I could not afford to hire a solicitor to represent my case and evidence

I provided was not strong enough because I could not get the evidence from the employer

as they gone bust by then (back in 2003) so I had to accept what judge decided back in 2006.

 

I thought they lost the case hence I have not heard anything from them.

 

All of sudden 2013 I am getting correspondence from DWP asking me to pay off the overpayment.

 

Please rescue me from this situation it is really affecting me mentally. thanks very much in advance for your kind attention and advice.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I expect the guys will be along over the course of the day.

 

I'm not sure whether statute barred rules apply to DWP debt in the same way, have asked for advice on that.

 

I am working full time so can I ask them to take the money from my NI contribution subject to less pension payment when I claim state pension?

 

I don't think this is possible, sorry.

 

My best, HB

[renegadeimp]

What was their reply to your SB letter?

[antone]

They can pass the debt to a private collector, yes, but if it is statute barred then all that company can do is bluster at you - SB rules apply to DWP overpayments just like any other debts and they can't pursue you through the civil courts.

 

Note, though, that the DWP can collect debts from future benefit payments (including State Retirement Pension) at any time even if they are barred from taking action through the courts. It's not possible to have the debt collected via NI contributions.

[renegadeimp]

also:

 

The DWP has 6 years to take action through the courts to recover benefit overpayments and social fund loans.

 

This time starts running from the date of the final decision made on the overpayment

and from when the social fund loan was due to be paid.

 

But the DWP are still allowed to make deductions from your benefit for a debt over 6 years old

as they don’t need to go to court to do this.

 

This applies to overpayments of benefits such as income support, job seekers allowance,

pension credit, housing benefit, council tax benefit and paying back social fund loans.

 

They can take it from most benefits you may claim in future, with the exception of some disability benefits which are protected.

 

They do not have to go to to court to do this, and there's no legal obligation to inform you in advance

that this is what they intend to do if the six years has passed.

 

The statute of limitations applies, but unlike ordinary unsecured debts on simple contract,

doesn't stop recovery by DWP but does stop a DCA.

 

It is a debt to the Crown which could be taken from a pension or even from your 'estate' after death,

if a relative claims a funeral Grant.

 

Doing away with the old Benefits Agency and merging with others to form DWP made it a lot easier to do this.

[monmoy]

What was their reply to your SB letter?

 

Thanks very much for your reply.

 

DWP replied and saying that the limitation act 1980 does not affect their ability to recover the debt

by deductions from benefits or state pension.

 

If no benefit or state pension is in payment from which deductions can be made

then they have other means of recovery available to them.

 

The Act also does not prevent them from instructing any of their private sector partners to pursue repayments on their behalf.

 

This is the replay I received from DWP.

 

If they pass my case to private debt collector does it mean they can send bailiff?

 

Do I need to pay additional fees for it.

 

I can not even afford to pay what I owe to them and how I am going to pay of the additional bailiff charges.

 

I really do not know how I can get out of it.

[antone]

That's the sort of reply I'd expect. They are correct, as noted above, that the 1980 act does not prevent them from recovering debts from future benefits, and they can instruct private debt collectors if they wish.

 

But a private debt collector has no special legal power and cannot send baillifs - only a court can do that. SB debt cannot be pursued through the courts.

[monmoy]

That's the sort of reply I'd expect. They are correct, as noted above, that the 1980 act does not prevent them from recovering debts from future benefits, and they can instruct private debt collectors if they wish.

 

But a private debt collector has no special legal power and cannot send baillifs - only a court can do that. SB debt cannot be pursued through the courts.

 

The letter I received today asking them to call them back to stop them transfering my case to private debt collection company. Now if call them can I have a chance to negotiate the amount and settle with a lower amount? Is it something can I pursue with DWP? If the private debt collect does not have no special legal power then why DWP transfer the cases to them?

 

What should I do now? Should i wait or should I call them to stop them transfering my case to private debt collection company but I do not know what exactly I need to say.

[monmoy]

What should I do now? Should i wait or should I call them to stop them transfering my case to private debt collection company but I do not know what exactly I need to say.

[Invalidation]

What you need to do is contact and write a letter to the Debt collectors stating "Debt is in dispute, refer to claimant"

 

You cannot have a bailiff sent round without there being a court order to do so

[renegadeimp]

Let them transfer it. Simply send the statute barred letter to the DCA, and then make formal complaints about DWP passing on a statute barred debt.

[Surfer01]

Can you recall the reason for the overpayment and the amount? Were you at fault or did they fail to process documentation correctly?

[45002]

Toay I have received a letter from DWP stating that they are considering for immediate transfer

to a private company for repayment collection for the overpayment.

 

More than six years have passed since I last made a payment or acknowledge the debt.

 

So reading varios threads in CAG i believe this is a Statue Barred.

 

It is purely a JSA overpayment and a civil matter.

 

In fact I wrote to them and told them that this is a Statue Barred and reminded them about the OFT debt collection guidance.

 

Now my question is can DWP legally pass my case to a private company for repayment collection?

 

To resolve this I really do not have the fund to repay them the amount I owe

so I do not know how I can proceed with this.

 

I am working full time so can I ask them to take the money from my NI contribution subject

to less pension payment when I claim state pension?

 

If I had the money in my bank I would pay off and resolve this anyway.

 

When DWP made the over payment claim it was all based on estimates as they could not get

hold of proper factual evidence against me.

 

When I made the apeal judge was not happy the way DWP gathered their evidence agaist me.

 

So eventually judge had to calculate the overpayment based on estimates and rejected DWP's initial amount.

 

Now I could not afford to hire a solicitor to represent my case and evidence

I provided was not strong enough because I could not get the evidence from the employer

as they gone bust by then (back in 2003) so I had to accept what judge decided back in 2006.

 

I thought they lost the case hence I have not heard anything from them.

 

All of sudden 2013 I am getting correspondence from DWP asking me to pay off the overpayment.

 

Please rescue me from this situation it is really affecting me mentally. thanks very much in advance for your kind attention and advice.

 

monmoy

 

Can I ask how much overpayment is for ?