Who can access bank accounts?

[sg61]

Hi,

I have a question which has been bugging me for a few weeks now and I hope someone can help......

 

My son is in the Royal Navy and lives on base in Devonport. He has started seeing a girl from his home town and goes up there most weekends to see her. He stays there usually Friday and Saturday nights.

 

She is a single parent and in receipt of benefits. However he in no way contributes to her household.

 

Unfortunately, someone decided to inform the Housing Benefits that she had a partner living with her (untrue) and she was called in for an Interview under Caution.

She had a solicitor, who apparently told her they were just fishing, but someone who knew them well must have informed them as they new a lot of details regarding my son.

 

What I don't understand is, the Officers at the Housing office had copies of my SON's Bank Statements??? And were asking questions such as ......James spent £20 at KFC on such a date, did you go with him? etc...

 

I totally agree that any type of fraud is wrong.

 

What I can't get my head around is, of course I would expect them to have her bank statements etc as she is the one under investigation. But how did they get my son's statements? They are not linked in any way.

 

To be honest I'm a bit suspicious with regards to my son's girlfriend, but then I suppose you could put that down to being a Mom.

 

Any help, or answers would be more than welcome.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I'll move your thread to the benefits forum, where the guys should be able to help you.

 

My best, HB

[Conniff]

Your son should see his divisional officer and ask for an appointment with the Naval legal service too swift, he has all the facilities available to him in Devonport.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The DWP and HMRC have wide powers of investigation now and aaccessing bank accounts and credit reference agencies is just part of this as is the use of debt collecting and tracing agencies from the private sector.

 

Coniff is absolutely right RNLS will help here, a servicemans data should not be randomly accessed in a situation like this.

[estellyn]

This is disturbing, I mean, accessing a credit file is one thing, but bank statements is another thing entirely. Do they need a warrant to access this information?

 

And since when has going out to KFC been evidence of living together.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

No they don't just supposedly reasonable sus.

[estellyn]

No they don't just supposedly reasonable sus.

 

And who decides the reasonable suspicion? Them I suppose. This is really, really bad. It allows fishing expeditions where there may be no other evidence than a less than credible source. so hypothetically in this case (not knowing all the details), the investigating team receive a tip off that a benefit claimant may be living with someone who they have not declared. They investigate, maybe pull credit files and there is nothing on there to prove anything, so they get the bank statements of the suspected partner, and interrogate the claimant about entries on the bank statements, hoping to get an admission under caution that they can twist to suit their purposes.

 

Bank statements are private, and in my opinion should remain so unless a judge decides there is sufficient cause for them to be provided for a person who is not involved in the benefit claim. The person who's beneft claim it is can be compelled to provide bank statements under terms of claiming the benefit.

 

Who regulates these people? Who makes sure that there is reasonable cause in these cases for procuring private documents? The OP's son has committed no crime, is not accused of committing a crime, is not under investigation for fraud - the claimant is.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

All the civil servants and ''private sector partners'' involved in the collection of ''Goverment Debt'' are signatories to the Official Secrets Act and are subject to the DPA and are audited by their departments.

This has come about because of the huge volume of fraud, and non payment of social fund loans and this all is under the ''control'' of the Minister for Welfare Reform at the DWP.

 

There may be suspicions that there is involvement so an investigation has been started.

[estellyn]

All the civil servants and ''private sector partners'' involved in the collection of ''Goverment Debt'' are signatories to the Official Secrets Act and are subject to the DPA and are audited by their departments.

This has come about because of the huge volume of fraud, and non payment of social fund loans and this all is under the ''control'' of the Minister for Welfare Reform at the DWP.

 

There may be suspicions that there is involvement so an investigation has been started.

 

Yes, I understand what has happened, I'm just lamenting that it CAN happen.

[jabba jones]

The Operational Intelligence Unit obtains bank statements on behalf of the investigator, but in order to receive an alleged partners bank statements there must be a good reason & a genuine link.

 

For it to have been a fishing exercise there would have been no link & the investigators request (which is quite detailed) would have been turned down.

 

I think we are only getting part of the story here.

[sparky514]

how did they get all his details, like his surname etc? this all sounds a bit sus to me

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

As said this has been brought on by the uncontrolled fraud and non repayment of loans and overpayments.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

how did they get all his details, like his surname etc? this all sounds a bit sus to me

It is reatively easy for anyone to be traced by a Govenment department.

[id6052]

Okay, so the gf is claiming on the basis of being a single parent.

 

However, she has a significant other in full time employment, who stops most weekends and is away working during the week? To be honest, she is already ticking some of the boxes for a LT (living together) decision.

 

Local Authorities cannot just obtain bank statements for any old Tom Dick or Harry.

 

They do have strong investigation powers, however they can only use these where there is sufficient grounds to warrant a fraud investigation and the powers should only be used where all reasonable alternatives have been exhausted.

[45002]

No they don't just supposedly reasonable sus.

 

As said this has been brought on by the uncontrolled fraud and non repayment of loans and overpayments.

 

It is relatively easy for anyone to be traced by a Government department.

 

Where do you get All this nonsense from ?

 

I was under the impression that a court order is still needed in the UK from a Judge to access personal bank accounts !

 

and not just any old Tom,Dick or Harry accessing personal bank account details......

Edited September 4, 2012 by 45002

[sparky514]

I think if you are claiming any sort of benefit the DWP can access any bank accounts in your name, and they can cross reference with HMRC etc, but if the OP's son is in the Navy, and not actually living with the gf, and has no connection to the address financially, then how did they get his information (surname etc), if she was reported to the DWP it must have been by someone very close to her. xx

[debt4get]

this is extremely worrying...are we all now to be expected to vet any and all future partners, before we take them out for say a meal and a drink.....as to them accessing someones bank details, especially when they are not the claimant is horrific, i would if i was you take proper legal advice, this country is getting more like a police state day by day....they have absolutely no right to access his account, though i am not surprised to hear it...

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Where do you get All this nonsense from ?

 

I was under the impression that a court order is still needed in the UK from a Judge to access personal bank accounts !

 

and not just any old Tom,Dick or Harry accessing personal bank account details......

1

 

All this NONSENCE comes from experience and contact with a Minsiter of State at the DWP, if you wish to make this kind of remark I suugest you do as I have spend 3 years resarching the new approach the DWP and other departments use to collect debt and to counter fraud.

Your ''impression'' is also wrong!!!

[debt4get]

I fear that brig is right.....all done in the name of reducing fraud.....even so, accessing someones bank account without informing them, when they are not the claimant is taking it a bit far...everything this govt does is all done in the name of 'fairness'

eg is it fair to leave someone who is disabled on benefits?

is it fair that hard working tax payers have to keep paying for feckless unemployed?

and i am sure we all have a million more examples....but police state, where your every move is watched and monitored is getting closer day by day if not already here

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes the result of the last Government giving any organisation that has some ''authority'' to use certain acts to pry into anyone life and private businees.!!!

[debt4get]

to be honest brig.. i am not much interested which govt brought it in....labour or condem...they are all in league with each other....the whole bloody lot of em deserve nothing less than stringing up....the next election is gonna be interesting!!!

[45002]

1

 

All this NONSENCE comes from experience and contact with a Minister of State at the DWP, if you wish to make this kind of remark I suggest you do as I have spend 3 years researching the new approach the DWP and other departments use to collect debt and to counter fraud.

Your ''impression'' is also wrong!!!

 

Really !

 

Yes the result of the last Government giving any organisation that has some ''authority'' to use certain acts to pry into anyone life and private business.!!!

 

More nonsense then !

 

So you had a cup of tea with a minster.

 

Which acts of parliaments and section, allow any Tom,Dick or Harry to access personal bank accounts without a warrant from a Judge...

Edited September 4, 2012 by 45002

[ErikaPNP]

The relevant Act is the Social Security Fraud Act. It does not allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to access someone's bank account but commands that banks must share information with Authorised Officers (in certain circumstances).

 

If you submit a claim to the DWP, the person who processes your claim has no access to your bank account information without you providing it to them; a benefit processor will never be given access to your accounts nor the authorisation to demand that the bank provide it, to allow this level of access to processing staff would be a huge security risk. If a fraud investigation is underway however, they can use an authorised officer to obtain the information from your bank, as Jabba outlined earlier, no court order is required.

[45002]

The relevant Act is the Social Security Fraud Act. It does not allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to access someone's bank account but commands that banks must share information with Authorised Officers (in certain circumstances).

 

If you submit a claim to the DWP, the person who processes your claim has no access to your bank account information without you providing it to them; a benefit processor will never be given access to your accounts nor the authorisation to demand that the bank provide it, to allow this level of access to processing staff would be a huge security risk. If a fraud investigation is underway however, they can use an authorised officer to obtain the information from your bank, as Jabba outlined earlier, no court order is required.

 

So what was the year of this Act and which section in this act allows to access personal bank account details with out a court order....

Edited September 4, 2012 by 45002

[bio]

I would add to Jabba's comments that these Authorised Officer requests are normally made through third parties such as the OIU or NAFN and these third parties will often question the reasons for requests for bank statements. Unless the Authorised Officer can fully justify such requests, they are often refused.