ESA Daughter WRAG

[Laura Cooke]

Daughter been in WRAG group since end of last year she as mental health, she left work in August 2011, she had been struggling to maintain a job. Since being placed in WRAG she as been diagnosed as Bipolar and after many tests etc starts on 3 lots of medication under mental health in 3 weeks.

 

My daughter is supported by us but lives alone in a 2 bedroomed house she is 25. Most of the time she is very low but she also as highs but not that often.

 

She as seen Job Centre Plus once, they made her another appointment then changed it to end of July, since then they have changed it again back to June we thought this letter was an overlap so ignored it, Job Centre rang and were very snotty about her failing to attend and said the appointment was most urgent as it is a interview. Swapping appointments left right and centre is a great way to push someone over the edge with mental health.

 

We recently appealed low rate care disability and the notes from her ESA interview was sent back with the papers the Nurse who carried out the interview recommended a return to work within 6 months, this is ridiculous, my daughter as not even started on medication yet and lacks any form of motivation. We have appealed her being in the WRAG group 2 months ago I rang them Friday they said they cannot say when this will be dealt with.

 

My daughter is in no state to keep attending any form of interviews at Job Centre Plus, these ESA`s are not fit for purpose and being in the WRAG group and all the stresses with it are making my daughter much worse, these at DWP do not understand the different effects of mental health they effect each individual differently yet they are grouping them all the same.

 

My daughter should be exempt from being in the WRAG with how she is, she is getting so upset about having to attend an interview this Wednesday, yet I assume if we do not somehow get her there her ESA will be stopped?

 

I do not know what to do next she is at Mental Health in 2 weeks they said at her last appointment she is a danger to herself and others if she worked.

[Nystagmite]

I do not know what to do next she is at Mental Health in 2 weeks they said at her last appointment she is a danger to herself and others if she worked.

 

Are job centre aware of this?

[reallymadwoman]

If her GP is supportive (or even better, someone from the Community Mental Health team), get him to write a letter saying that having to attend the interviews is seriously detrimental to your daughter's health, and they should back off. If they can include the 'danger to herself' comment, that would also make excellent evidence to ask for a supercession on her DLA claim as her condition has worsened.

[Laura Cooke]

Are job centre aware of this?

 

 

 

Yes they are Nystagmite, ( read lots of posts on internet though where the DWP seem to be ignoring the rules when they got someone whose condition could be made worse by the interviews) first time I went with my daughter to see the advisor he was sympathetic (Well seemed to be as I was there) and said he could see how she was, when I rang him to say she had received a diagnosis and that I had appealed for her to be considered for the support group he said "Oh I might just see her this one last time and then leave her for 6 months" then he cancelled the June appointment and made it July then he sent another June appointment which I assumed had crossed in post from the previous cancellation. He then rang up Wednesday being really snotty with my daughter she was very upset he said "Where are you I could stop your money you have missed your appointment" daughter said she wasn`t aware she had one till July.

 

Is there any wonder mentally ill people are made worse swapping and changing appointments till they are that confused. The advisor as left a note on my phone "You need to contact me urgently with reference to your daughter`s work related activity" rang and hese not available do to interviewing we to try and ring him Monday grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Laura Cooke]

If her GP is supportive (or even better, someone from the Community Mental Health team), get him to write a letter saying that having to attend the interviews is seriously detrimental to your daughter's health, and they should back off. If they can include the 'danger to herself' comment, that would also make excellent evidence to ask for a supercession on her DLA claim as her condition has worsened.

 

Thanks reallymadwoman so fed up with DWP they seriously overstepping the mark with the mentally ill, my daughter should have been in the support group, when I went for the ESA interview with her the Nurse never even asked about dangers etc but we have noticed she answered herself as "No dangers" also she put "Not on any meds" then in another place "Takes meds regularly" beggars belief. They do not do a proper interview ask the questions they should and fill in the blanks with their own answers totally out of order

[Nystagmite]

I wonder if you can request phone calls instead of face to face? This is classed as a reasonable adjustment.

[Slatted]

I am not sure about this but as the "danger to ..." comments seem to fit the exceptional circumstances for ESA Support group I would wonder if something could be done about that?

[Nystagmite]

I think Laura is appealing the decision? My understanding is that whilst appealing, if in wrag, you must still compile.

[Slatted]

The phone call route seems a good way to start then but if she is thought to be a danger to herself and others it begs the question that I have been floating around before about being too ill to participate in WRA and whether another sick note would work...or if not what? It does not have to be a mental illness issue but it must come up I am sure...people are on ESA for a reason and that may mean flare ups.....

[Laura Cooke]

I am writing to my MP this morning just spent a few days in London with him he is very supportive, going to write to Mental Health as she not due there for another 3 weeks. Yes she will have to comply with Job Centre Plus but she is refusing to come out of the house. This WRAG is not fit for purpose, DWP do not understand what they are doing to people suffering with mental health, they should hang their heads in shame.

 

No wonder she as been pushed to the limit she as had 3 changed appointments in 3 weeks and only 4 days notice to come to one this week and we are at the hospital so that is going to upset Job Centre Plus when I finally get through to them been trying since Friday.

 

This is dreadful, if my daughter ever harms herself and becomes another one of the sad statistics they will hear from me loud and clear I promise them that. Thanks for all the advice etc it is very much appreciated and needed right now

[Laura Cooke]

Job Centre Plus got in touch with me the advisor said he had listened to my request, that to carry on with the appointments would affect my daughters health and he had talked to his manager about this and she had insisted that the appointments had to be endured to and could not be postponed. I was furious, mean while my MP had contacted them and the advisor rang stating he did not want to see my daughter for another month and that he would be letting the work related group/company know that she will be sent to, that she as got "Serious limitations" he said he felt in a terrible position as rules had to be adhered to and that it was about targets I said I knew that the targets were of prime importance and that the mentally ill were being failed and seriously let down.

 

My MP as also contacted DLA and said they should not rely only on the evidence of a ATOS nurse to determine the rights to DLA and at the correct rate, and that they should have attempted to contact my daughters GP or Mental Health Pshyciatrist. My daughter as now received a letter off DLA stating that they are writing to her GP to see if they can reverse their decision, I am confused about this as I thought we had reached the end of the line and that it was now going to Tribunal.

 

My MP then wrote to ESA and told them they not fit for purpose and that the mentally ill are being failed and that a 21 minute assesment by a Nurse could not possibly give an insight into the depth of mental health. He told them to look into my daughters case as a matter of urgency, as when I rang them they said they cannot give any indication when my daughter`s case will be reviewed.

 

Mental Health have sent a letter don`t know if this carries any weight "To Whom It May Concern" The above patient was recently diagnosed with Bipolar Affective Disorder, she has been under the local Mental Health Team since January. It is essential that Miss ********** is adequately supported in the community to prevent risks regarding her Mental Health.

[Nystagmite]

I really do not understand why your daughter is in the work related group.

 

I'm sure (please do not quote me on this) that if someone is too ill now, the work focused interviews can be postponed until a later date.

[Laura Cooke]

I really do not understand why your daughter is in the work related group.

 

I'm sure (please do not quote me on this) that if someone is too ill now, the work focused interviews can be postponed until a later date.

 

Nystagmite I quoted that very phrase to them about carrying on with the work related interviews in her present condition would be detrimental to her well being and asked them to postpone till she was due to see Mental Health on the 16th July, this request was turned down then bang MP intervenes and now we can postpone for a month, seems like a case of not what you know which didn`t wash with Job Centre Plus, but who you know did. I also said to him I cannot wait for the outcome of the challenge being made in the High Court about the way ESA treats people with Mental Health problems, as no consideration or understanding is apparent.

[jackieandwayne]

Your daughter will get put in the support group IF the community mental health team, or her GP or consultant writes "this lady is not in a position to hold down employment as not only she a a danger to herself, she is a serious risk to everyone around her". Don;t think for one minute they care about the danger to herself, but they will care about the risk to everyone around her. This I know because it is what was written about me which got me into the Support Group. It is a true statement about me, and as I have several friends now with bi-polar, I can bet a pound to a dollar it is true about your daughter.

 

I wouldn;t be at all surprised to hear that your daughter had a complete bi-polar "s*** fit" whilst in these awful jobcentres. And neither would I be surprised she had then been put into the correct group. It would educate every member of staff working that day in the true meaning of "bi-polar" Geez, what it takes to get these people to realise that mentally ill people are just that....!

[Laura Cooke]

Your daughter will get put in the support group IF the community mental health team, or her GP or consultant writes "this lady is not in a position to hold down employment as not only she a a danger to herself, she is a serious risk to everyone around her". Don;t think for one minute they care about the danger to herself, but they will care about the risk to everyone around her. This I know because it is what was written about me which got me into the Support Group. It is a true statement about me, and as I have several friends now with bi-polar, I can bet a pound to a dollar it is true about your daughter.

 

I wouldn;t be at all surprised to hear that your daughter had a complete bi-polar "s*** fit" whilst in these awful jobcentres. And neither would I be surprised she had then been put into the correct group. It would educate every member of staff working that day in the true meaning of "bi-polar" Geez, what it takes to get these people to realise that mentally ill people are just that....!

 

Hi

As my daughter as only been seen twice by mental health and this was before a diagnosis was confirmed doubt they could say that or the GP she as never been violent but she gets very agitated and can be challenging, we have never got to the point of filling in papers or CV`s which I hear they have you doing at the work related interviews, this would totally freak her out, and offend me as she not handle this pressure. The cheek of the advisor he said "By all means we do not mind you accompanying her to the interviews but we are short of space" I bet they would love the Mentally ill to attend alone (As if they could)they would have them agreeing to anything beyhond their means. The sooner they have a massive shake up of ESA/ATOS the better it will be for all concerned, the fear of god that is put into the Mentally ill is an absolute disgrace and miscarriage of justice

[RaeUK]

... My daughter as now received a letter off DLA stating that they are writing to her GP to see if they can reverse their decision, I am confused about this as I thought we had reached the end of the line and that it was now going to Tribunal. ...

 

Your daughter certainly seems to be going through the mill, Laura. I wish I could help more but, unfortunately, I know virtually nothing about mental illness. I can help you a bit with this little area though. The DWP Decision Makers, be they ESA or DLA, can change and overturn their decision at any time up until the Tribunal. So them writing to your GP for further info is a good thing. If it's not too late, I would make a quick appointment with the GP to let them know and have a chat before they wrote back. It all helps.

Either things have changed drastically over the last 12 months or so, or it's really the luck of the draw of where you live, but I had none of these problems with the DWP. Never too much trouble to cancel an appointment when I got hit with chest infections, always offered a phone chat instead as long as I was well enough for it. I dread to think what I've got coming this time round!

Edited July 10, 2012 by RaeUK

[jackieandwayne]

Keep a very good eye on her at the job centre even though she has never had a violent episode.

 

I have PTSD which although well controlled now with medication and bloody mindedness (I am in charge brain, not you!) can make me go up like Vesuvius. Its because if I have an episode, its a fear related thing, I get flashbacks, and good lord all hell lets loose. The Job Centre actually caused this to happen on one occasion. 3 years ago when i was really, really bad with it, they insisted I attend some sort of disability focused interview at a local Holiday Inn of all places. I had to sit in the cafe area with all the business men and holiday makers booking in and out and getting coffee, sobbing as i was so ill, confused and frightened. How embarrasing. Of course, the fear of strangers completely took over and the two women interviewing me must have thought I was rabid! Fortunately one of them had experience with mental health and got me out of there. After that, I only ever went back to the job centre twice, both times I was seated in a quiet area (if there is such a thing), and a very pleasant and calm older lady came and got me. And then escorted me off the premises to make sure i was ok.

 

I have several friends, all in their late 40's early 50's who have bi-polar. I'm really pleased to hear your daughter doesn;t have the anger problems. But they can be a part of bi-polar, and being at the job centre and being put under stress can be triggers. And also the bi-polar blow ups that I have had to deal with with one particular friend was because she was one of those who felt better mentally on her meds, but hated the side effects (wieght gain) so left off them thinking she was cured, then hey ho, here we go again. She's only 5ft 2" but when she goes off on one she has the strength of ten men. Its much better today, but 6 years ago she used to frighten the hell out of me. At her very worst we believe it was to do with the menopause aggravating her condition, HRT sorted that out, and then things calmed down again. Today she runs her own hairdressing business (qualified two years ago!). Yes, its safe to let Susie near the scissors again! So, that just shows you about not writing off mentally ill people! (And older ladies)

 

Its good you go to the job centre with her, but I expect, had she to go alone, she might well be adversely affected by it, frightened even, and its that sort of thing that starts the problems off with the mental health side of things. I really hope she gets it sorted. I would say, remember that even though she does not display the angry side of bi-polar, it is a characteristic of the condition, so a psychiatrist describing it to DWP in a report might well include this as a possibility.

 

Sure as eggs is eggs she's in the wrong group and i really hope this gets sorted quickly (and that DWP staff get some basic training into what mental illness is rather than having to rely on their customers to give demonstrations).

[Laura Cooke]

Your daughter certainly seems to be going through the mill, Laura. I wish I could help more but, unfortunately, I know virtually nothing about mental illness. I can help you a bit with this little area though. The DWP Decision Makers, be they ESA or DLA, can change and overturn their decision at any time up until the Tribunal. So them writing to your GP for further info is a good thing. If it's not too late, I would make a quick appointment with the GP to let them know and have a chat before they wrote back. It all helps.

Either things have changed drastically over the last 12 months or so, or it's really the luck of the draw of where you live, but I had none of these problems with the DWP. Never too much trouble to cancel an appointment when I got hit with chest infections, always offered a phone chat instead as long as I was well enough for it. I dread to think what I've got coming this time round!

 

Hi Rae

I think your right it`s the luck of the draw, yes my daughter is going through the mill, who knows what pressure DWP are putting on the local job Centres to get people moving, it springs to mind about how the Nazis went on, they felt the sick and disabled were not worthy of being in society so started to eradicate them, I have half expected people to start standing up and being counted and to start to fight back at this unfair system, how this con/dem bunch are getting away with this beggars belief. They set the rules up to catch the shirkers but the only people suffering are the genuine sick people

[Laura Cooke]

Keep a very good eye on her at the job centre even though she has never had a violent episode.

 

I have PTSD which although well controlled now with medication and bloody mindedness (I am in charge brain, not you!) can make me go up like Vesuvius. Its because if I have an episode, its a fear related thing, I get flashbacks, and good lord all hell lets loose. The Job Centre actually caused this to happen on one occasion. 3 years ago when i was really, really bad with it, they insisted I attend some sort of disability focused interview at a local Holiday Inn of all places. I had to sit in the cafe area with all the business men and holiday makers booking in and out and getting coffee, sobbing as i was so ill, confused and frightened. How embarrasing. Of course, the fear of strangers completely took over and the two women interviewing me must have thought I was rabid! Fortunately one of them had experience with mental health and got me out of there. After that, I only ever went back to the job centre twice, both times I was seated in a quiet area (if there is such a thing), and a very pleasant and calm older lady came and got me. And then escorted me off the premises to make sure i was ok.

 

I have several friends, all in their late 40's early 50's who have bi-polar. I'm really pleased to hear your daughter doesn;t have the anger problems. But they can be a part of bi-polar, and being at the job centre and being put under stress can be triggers. And also the bi-polar blow ups that I have had to deal with with one particular friend was because she was one of those who felt better mentally on her meds, but hated the side effects (wieght gain) so left off them thinking she was cured, then hey ho, here we go again. She's only 5ft 2" but when she goes off on one she has the strength of ten men. Its much better today, but 6 years ago she used to frighten the hell out of me. At her very worst we believe it was to do with the menopause aggravating her condition, HRT sorted that out, and then things calmed down again. Today she runs her own hairdressing business (qualified two years ago!). Yes, its safe to let Susie near the scissors again! So, that just shows you about not writing off mentally ill people! (And older ladies)

 

Its good you go to the job centre with her, but I expect, had she to go alone, she might well be adversely affected by it, frightened even, and its that sort of thing that starts the problems off with the mental health side of things. I really hope she gets it sorted. I would say, remember that even though she does not display the angry side of bi-polar, it is a characteristic of the condition, so a psychiatrist describing it to DWP in a report might well include this as a possibility.

 

Sure as eggs is eggs she's in the wrong group and i really hope this gets sorted quickly (and that DWP staff get some basic training into what mental illness is rather than having to rely on their customers to give demonstrations).

 

Jackiewayne

Know what you are saying have to go everywhere with my daughter as she reluctant to leave home she is quite happy to sit in pyjamas all day, this makes me depressed seeing her like this and she won`t open blinds her home is like a morgue, I say things to her and she jumps off at the deep end feel like I am treading on egg shells, I cannot read her like I can my Scizophrenic son, I know how to calm him down before he causes damage to property.

Keep thinking at this rate I`ll need help it does affect my quality of life too.

I hope DWP see`s sense real soon and places her in the correct support group, and it would be beneficial for all who work within DWP or on behalf of them get some specialist training in the affects of mental health, the police are the same they often mistake mental health for other things. Job Centre Plus staff want to remind themselves that their jobs are to go too soon!!!!!

[Nystagmite]

Get your daughters' GP to write a letter stating that she is too ill to take part and doing so is just going to make her illness even worse.

[Laura Cooke]

Nystagmite

 

Is the letter from mental health that is on the thread no good? I have seen GP about supporting her DLA claim but did not mention anything about ESA to them, but I will take this next step to see the GP if necessary

[Nystagmite]

I'm not sure what letter you're on about? But yeah, she needs a letter stating how ill she is and that taking part is just going to make her illness worse.

[Slatted]

It was not clear that you had a letter from the Mental Health people....you mentioned what they said at the last meeting and I had hoped this would have been provided to JCP. I assumed that you were also going to use that information for the appeal as it sounds to me as if it directy refers to one of the exceptional circumstances required for not attending WRAG activities and being in the Support group.

 

I can also state from personal experience that my husband is appealing WRAG decision and is not coping with thought of attending WFI (Work Focussed Interviews) and when I spoke with the Jobcentre they agreed to do a telephone call rather than insist he attend...I am not sure if being his appointee helped with that though, but they seemed to be sympathetic, especially whilst the appeal is being looked into. I was also allowed to assist on the phone call due to his communication issues.

 

It is a shame that the guidelines for appeals do not seem to take into consideration that it may be about ESA WRAG or Support and not just ESA or not so there do not seem to be set rules...I would have hoped it was implied that whilst appealing you were to be given the benefit of the doubt (not to mention the lower amount of benefit) but maybe that is too much to ask.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Slatted

[Laura Cooke]

I'm not sure what letter you're on about? But yeah, she needs a letter stating how ill she is and that taking part is just going to make her illness worse.

 

Hi Nystagmite

 

I mentioned yesterday at 19.23pm that my daughter had received a letter from Mental Health and stated the contents do you think this letter carries any weight? my MP as forwarded a copy to ESA & DLA on my behalf

[Laura Cooke]

It was not clear that you had a letter from the Mental Health people....you mentioned what they said at the last meeting and I had hoped this would have been provided to JCP. I assumed that you were also going to use that information for the appeal as it sounds to me as if it directy refers to one of the exceptional circumstances required for not attending WRAG activities and being in the Support group.

 

I can also state from personal experience that my husband is appealing WRAG decision and is not coping with thought of attending WFI (Work Focussed Interviews) and when I spoke with the Jobcentre they agreed to do a telephone call rather than insist he attend...I am not sure if being his appointee helped with that though, but they seemed to be sympathetic, especially whilst the appeal is being looked into. I was also allowed to assist on the phone call due to his communication issues.

 

It is a shame that the guidelines for appeals do not seem to take into consideration that it may be about ESA WRAG or Support and not just ESA or not so there do not seem to be set rules...I would have hoped it was implied that whilst appealing you were to be given the benefit of the doubt (not to mention the lower amount of benefit) but maybe that is too much to ask.

 

 

May make myself appointee I am allowed at moment to deal with the bank and council as got authority to do so, never knew what my daughters actual problem was and if her condition was going to deterioate. At least my daughter is getting the ESA whilst she appeals against not bening placed in the support group. Same with DLA whilst we are appealing the LCR she was awarded, she still receives this LCR benefit. Regret not having appealed against my daughter being placed in the WRAG group but was advised by Unemployed Workers Centre not to and rsik the whole benefit being taken away, they stated it was onkly the difference of losing out on £5 in difference per week, I disagree the UWC have been helpful but it`s not a case of just losing £5 difference, being placed in the WRAG means you go through daunting work interviews and are expected to return to employment, when your not in a position to do so