Ingeus

[joeski]

They were wrong or lying

One answer could be to imagine them naked? Just be careful about what you sign and you should be OK

They need to manipulate you so you can be profited from so they are not likely to be too bad at first

 

well i've withdrawn my consent and after that it seemed to effect the advisors attitude toward me :/

[osdset]

Having been through the system when it was FnD, I found myself having to deal with a number of personal issues thanks to the drones. Managed to blag my way on to some free one day courses being run by the local University which helped to improve my confidence. The courses also gave me a chance to "network" with other people in a similar situation.

 

 

Good grief, that would leave many of us mentally scarred for life. Better to imagine them as one of the Daily Mail's skiving benefit scroungers - Even better, point out that the advisers are just a stroke of a pen away from being in the same boat themselves.

 

I did a short stint on FND, originally mandated for 26 weeks I was more than happy to discover that due to the level of referrals either Reed in Partnership (the drone) or JCP had cut the period temporarily to 13 weeks.

 

I managed to get the 13 weeks down to 10 by taking two weeks holiday and a week sick, the rest of the time was mainly spent meeting and insulting the never ending stream of new advisors, none of which managed to last more than a week or so.

 

One thing I found strikingly clear was the sales atmosphere, the staff didn't bother hiding the whiteboards displaying targets and the bonus on offer for advisor of the week, the place was more like a telemarketing enterprise than anything to do with employment. Ancient PC's running windows 98, one printer/ scanner that never had any ink and a waiting list to use it, even the staff took stuff outside to print off.

 

Claiming fares back was an interesting spectacle, it was conducted on Friday afternoons and seemed to be on a first come first served basis, get to the serving hatch half an hour late and the kitty was bare, which led to some rather animated exchanges between claimants and drones.

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Chester6]

well i've withdrawn my consent and after that it seemed to effect the advisors attitude toward me :/

 

Which is to be expected

How do they treat you?

[jasta11]

One thing I found strikingly clear was the sales atmosphere, the staff didn't bother hiding the whiteboards displaying targets and the bonus on offer for advisor of the week, the place was more like a telemarketing enterprise than anything to do with employment. Ancient PC's running windows 98, one printer/ scanner that never had any ink and a waiting list to use it, even the staff took stuff outside to print off.

 

Claiming fares back was an interesting spectacle, it was conducted on Friday afternoons and seemed to be on a first come first served basis, get to the serving hatch half an hour late and the kitty was bare, which led to some rather animated exchanges between claimants and pimplings.

 

Very true - I always think the place looks more like a call centre than anything else, with advisors sitting 4 to a round table like battery hens. If I hadn't left all sympathy at the door I'd almost feel sorry for them.

 

I get round it by thinking 'Well, I'm not here very often anyway whereas they have to be here 5 days a week'. I smile smugly then

 

Never had any problems with getting expenses, one of the few areas I can't complain about.

[Chester6]

Mine have effectively stolen bus fair which they claim is legit as I was a few minutes late

Sometimes there's not enough money to pay everyone's us fair but no-one is vocal about that

The drones are spread over two offices with plenty of space for them all, the computers are xp but extremely slow and always fail to let me access my e-mail

Jobsearch is just loads of people sitting at computers and it would be just effective at home. A new rule was people had to be there within 15 minutes of start or they are not allowed in, drones classes need to be attended in time

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[joeski]

Which is to be expected

How do they treat you?

 

 

they treat me with a bad attitude, like laughing at the jobs ive applied for and even asking personal questions which am i right in thinking they have no right to do?

[Chester6]

they treat me with a bad attitude, like laughing at the jobs ive applied for and even asking personal questions which am i right in thinking they have no right to do?

 

They shouldn't be laughing and I'd bet that the personal questions are also something they aren't meant to ask if - especially as you don't like that

They should be concerned with jobsearch and what they claim to be "barriers to work"

[Mr.P]

Mine have effectively stolen bus fare which they claim is legit as I was a few minutes late

Sometimes there's not enough money to pay everyone's bus fare but no-one is vocal about that

 

Had a similar issue with A4e - They refused to refund my bus fare because I declined to sign some worthless papers. One written complaint later (that was cc'd to my MP and the JCP), and a postal order arrived by recorded delivery within a few days.

 

The drone is required to refund travel expenses and childcare costs promptly and without argument. If they are failing, then it is only reasonable that a formal complaint is lodged through the appropriate channels. i.e. DWP & local MP.

 

they treat me with a bad attitude, like laughing at the jobs ive applied for and even asking personal questions which am i right in thinking they have no right to do?

 

You have a right to be treated with dignity and respect. If the "advisers" cultivates an attitude of denigration and contempt, it is reasonable to reciprocate. If you have the conversations on tape, would also be worth contacting a newspaper - See: Guardian-asking-for-Work-Programme-experiences. I've had dealings with Amelia in the past, and if nothing else, she has a sympathetic ear.

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Chester6]

Had a similar issue with A4e - They refused to refund my bus fare because I declined to sign some worthless papers. One written complaint later (that was cc'd to my MP and the JCP), and a postal order arrived by recorded delivery within a few days.

 

The drone is required to refund travel expenses and childcare costs promptly and without argument. If they are failing, then it is only reasonable that a formal complaint is lodged through the appropriate channels. i.e. DWP & local MP.

 

 

 

So legally even though I was a few minutes late they still have to refund my money?

I thought mine were thieving drones - probably can't use other terms which are equally accurate

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Mr.P]

So legally even though I was a few minutes late they still have to refund my money?

I thought mine were thieving drones - probably can't use other terms which are equally accurate

 

There are no strings attached. The guidance notes that the provider should be following clearly states that travel expenses should be refunded - See: provider-guidance Chapter 19 - no strings attached.! File a complaint with the DWP and encourage other victims to follow suit. At some point, it will become clear to the DWP that there is systemic failures that might trigger a fraud investigation. Contrary to popular belief, complaints are logged and have an effect in the long term.

 

If you need hard copies of any of the guidance notes, feel free to use their facilities to print the stuff out.

 

As for being late - Sometimes sh*t happens and you are unavoidably delayed, as I was once due to a case of CBA*. But generally I made a point of being early, and if the "adviser" was late, pointing out "I was on time, why aren't you ?".

 

 

*CBA: Can't be arsed.

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[john27]

hi folks,

 

just got a letter in the post saying i'm on yet another ingeus course done by hull college - "pre-employment training" now - no start date yet - does anyone know if there's a way out of it? i've seen some references to a letter you can send which says you don't give them permission to share your details - would this mean i don't have to do it? would appreciate any help because these courses are a depressing waste of time and i'm down these days as it is!

[Mr.P]

I fear once you have been formally mandated to attend (the letter must contain words to the effect that "if you fail to attend without good reason, your benefits may be affected"), you must go or risk being sanctioned. However, before being mandated, you should have had the opportunity to discuss the "course" and have the justification as to why they thought it "appropriate to your needs or circumstances".

 

Go back to who ever sent you the letter and ask for reasons and justification - If you have any child (or elderly) care responsibilities that would conflict with the attendance times, point these out as "just reason" for not attending.

 

Serving a DPA waiver retraction now would not get you out of attending *this time, and I doubt it would stop them from putting you on similar courses in the future.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

hi folks,

 

just got a letter in the post saying i'm on yet another ingeus course done by hull college - "pre-employment training" now - no start date yet - does anyone know if there's a way out of it? i've seen some references to a letter you can send which says you don't give them permission to share your details - would this mean i don't have to do it? would appreciate any help because these courses are a depressing waste of time and i'm down these days as it is!

Further, if you already possess the Skills and Experience which would allow you to do the jobs that you are applying for, and if the "Pre Employment Training" is redundant, then you may justify that your participation would be spurious, and if any money changes hands because of no other reason than you are filling a seat on the course, you may be able to raise the issue of fraud.

[joeski]

my main issue is that ingeus are supose to be helping people find work but they are doing the complete oposite, appointments with my advisor totaly freak me out and my anxiety goes into overdrive :O

[jasta11]

Further, if you already possess the Skills and Experience which would allow you to do the jobs that you are applying for, and if the "Pre Employment Training" is redundant, then you may justify that your participation would be spurious, and if any money changes hands because of no other reason than you are filling a seat on the course, you may be able to raise the issue of fraud.

 

..exactly why I'm bringing two fraud allegations against Ingeus; one for sending me on a 7-day total beginners admin course when I already have 35+ years admin experience and the second because the course offered a level 2 certificate and I already have level 3 qualifications. They got paid for me being on the course while I got absolutely nothing out of it (apart from time away from Ingeus, which was rather nice)

 

Fraud, pure and simple. Another similarly-qualified ex-DWP guy on the same course is also pursuing an action.

[john27]

@Mr.P

@RebeccaPidgeon

 

thanks to both of you for responding - i'm unhappy to hear the data protection act letter won't do anything at this point, i hate these courses with a passion and knowing these parasites are getting paid for wasting my time is infuriating - they didn't even ask my permission, i just got a letter out of the blue saying i'm on this course - i guess i'll try to argue against participation on the grounds i've recently completed a very similar course (skills for employment) and it's therefore unneccesary - they'll probably just sanction me or something though - sigh

 

@jasta good on you, and good on the other guy, for pursuing action - i wouldn't know where to start with all that legal stuff and just dont have the energy or drive for all that hassle, but i have respect for people who know their rights and fight against injustices

Edited April 23, 2013 by john27

[Mr.P]

Ways to p*** off a provider:

 

Adviser claims that "due to a security breach involving confidential client records, we can not use the [store]room for this meeting.".... FoI request to the DWP: In light of this claimed security breach, how many cases have been reported by WP providers during the lifetime of their current contract ?

 

On overhearing a pair of "advisers" openly discussing someone's criminal record... FoI request to the DWP: In light of advisers discussing details of Mr X's criminal record, how many breaches of client confidentiality have been reported to the DWP/JCP ?

 

Duck while the proverbial hits the fan

[osdset]

Odset, when do the figures come out for the WP I heard they are out now?

 

The latest news is that the original date of the 28th May for the release of Work Programme official statistics, has now been put back to the 27th June. Which gives the DWP an extra month to strangle the figures.

[antone]

The latest news is that the original date of the 28th May for the release of Work Programme official statistics, has now been put back to the 27th June. Which gives the DWP an extra month to strangle the figures.

 

The commonly used phrase is "torture the data until it confesses."

[Chester6]

The commonly used phrase is "torture the data until it confesses."

 

Or more then likely says anything that it can to make the torture stop

[jasta11]

Ways to p*** off a provider:

 

Adviser claims that "due to a security breach involving confidential client records, we can not use the [store]room for this meeting.".... FoI request to the DWP: In light of this claimed security breach, how many cases have been reported by WP providers during the lifetime of their current contract ?

 

On overhearing a pair of "advisers" openly discussing someone's criminal record... FoI request to the DWP: In light of advisers discussing details of Mr X's criminal record, how many breaches of client confidentiality have been reported to the DWP/JCP ?

 

Duck while the proverbial hits the fan

 

I'm curious; we can ask for FoI info regarding anything done by the drones, but how often can we ask??

 

If I made a request now then presumably that would cover up to the present..but if I waited say, 2 months, could I then ask for another updated FoI report..then another in 2 months time..etc ?. If it's our right to have full information at all times then it would need to be on-going, wouldn't it!

 

...not that I'm planning to make a nuisance of myself, perish the thought

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Chester6]

I would have thought as often as you like, I'm not sure it's as much of a pain for the drone as it seems, it seems the best way to hurt them is in the profits they can make from people who are forced to go there

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Mr.P]

If you are filing FoI requests with the DWP/JCP, it only inconveniences them - Over the course of nine months, I filed just three, the first asking "How many complaints have been received about the providers in *this area ?"

From the response, I learnt that written complaints are recorded, and to some extent, guide future policy.

 

Repeatedly asking the same question every two or three months will eventually be met with a f.o. & "stop wasting our time" response - Far better is to listen and record specific instances of bullying, harassment, or possibly fraudulent behaviour. Then ask pointed questions, using Chester6's post on the preceding as an example:

On [date], and again on [date], myself, and others were denied legitimate travel expenses contrary to DWP Provider Guidance, Chapter 19, Section 31 (page 8). Under the Freedom of Information Act, I require answers to the following questions:

 

1. How many similar refusals of reimbursement of expenses have been reported to the DWP/JCP in the last twelve months by providers delivering the current Work Programme in this area ?
   
2. How many times has the DWP/JCP issued reprimands to the providers in this area with respect to failures to reimburse expenses in full ?
   

Two simple questions of limited scope that should result in the offending drone getting a reminder, draws the attention of the DWP to a possibility of financial irregularities, and (hopefully) get travel expenses refunded in full. If the provider has previous record of failures, the DWP may even kick off at a higher level, but as the question has been asked, they can not ignore it (even better if your local MP has been cc'd on the request). Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB

[Chester6]

What if your local mp has been there for a photo op plus is a bigoted Tory like mine? The pimps and his site describe the site in the same way so I doubt my mp would worry

 

His name is Stewart Jackson

[antone]

I'm curious; we can ask for FoI info regarding anything done by the drones, but how often can we ask??

 

If I made a request now then presumably that would cover up to the present..but if I waited say, 2 months, could I then ask for another updated FoI report..then another in 2 months time..etc ?. If it's our right to have full information at all times then it would need to be on-going, wouldn't it!

 

...not that I'm planning to make a nuisance of myself, perish the thought

 

You can make as many FoI requests as you like, but I'd advise restraint. Politicians and senior officials really don't like the FoI Act, and are constantly looking for reasons to curtail the rights it gives to citizens. If too many people make unnecessary or frivolous requests, that could be the excuse they need.

 

That said, what you propose sounds reasonable to me. After all, if you don't request the information on an ongoing basis, how would you be able to tell if the situation is getting better or worse?

 

This is a good site regarding the FoI Act.

Edited June 30, 2013 by citizenB