Cabot claimform - old Citi Card 'debt' **SETTLED BY TOMLIN**

[gettingsorted]

It would appear that I am one of many who have in the last couple of days have had a letter from Cabot relating to an old citi card debt.

 

 

Citi were chasing me for this in 2006 and I was awaiting a phone call from their collections dept to discuss the debt

then all of a sudden nothing more was heard !

 

 

I cannot afford to pay them this money now and they are charging 12% p a interest.

 

 

I am busy trying to clear my credit record and repaying several old debts and cannot afford for them to put this into default now.

 

A substantial part of this debt is charges.

 

 

What do I do now; and if so how; do I begin to reclaim the charges.

 

 

If I put the account into dispute can they default me.

 

Suggestions would be appreciated. about where I go from here . Thanks for reading

[maroondevo52]

When was the last payment made on the account.

[gettingsorted]

Hi

 

2006, early 2007 at the latest as far as I can recall.

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

Send them a CCA request and count up the charges.

 

I've pulled this from another cagger SeriouslyFedUp......

 

If the card was taken out Pre April 2007 then you are protected by s127(3) which prevents a court issuing an enforcement notice in the event there isnt a properly signed agreement with the prescribed terms on it. Note that it doesnt mean there is no agreement or that it will go away - ONLY that enforcement through court is a dead end for them.

Post 2007 (like the one I have got) doesnt attract that protection as 127 (3) was repealed by the 2006 Act. So while they might not have a properly signed agreement, its open to the court to issue an enforcement notice unless you an show you have been prejudiced by this failure- which is pretty difficult.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[coledog]

Hi

 

You can either ignore them completely, particularly if nothing on your credit file - the debt is probably unenforcable anyway. If it is just a letter, they are probably 'fishing'. They will probably send threats or offers of reduced payments, which you can consider. Contacting them could just confirm that they have the right person and lead to more harassment OR you can request the original credit agreement as suggested.

 

I have a DCA chasing an old alleged Citi Card, no Credit Agreement produced so I have put the 'account in dispute' with the DCA. The account in dispute letter states that the DCA is prevented from processing your data.

There are two entries on my credit file from the OC and the DCA which are identical and according to the CRA, the DCA can do this as they have bought it and 'my original credit agreement' allows them to. I have disputed this as there is no credit agreement.

IMO If there is nothing on your credit file now I doubt if Cabot can legitimately add anything as they would nornally use the original default and you can dispute this if there is no agreement.

If Cabot try to add something to your credit file particularly if they have not confirmed who you are OR the account is in dispute you can challenge this.

[gettingsorted]

Have had a look at the statements I have and there are charges, etc but the balance they have given me as outstanding is 1600 more than the balance on the last statement and communication I have from them. This communication was back in 2006 when I began to have difficulties and had contacted them about it but of course did not receive any further communication from them.

 

What do I do now - do I CCA and SAR them (for the breakdown of the difference) and place the account in dispute ? or do I just ignore them ?

Thanks

[gettingsorted]

...................?

Edited September 29, 2010 by gettingsorted

[coledog]

Personally I would ignore them. I think they are 'fishing' and contacting them could lead to further harassment. If the OC did not register a default on your credit file, I don't think that the new owner can do it now particularly as you have never paid them anything and if they try this, you can challenge it. They probably do not have an enforcable agreement anyway. The tool of DCAs is harassment particularly if they get your phone number. If you contact them you are confirming they have got the right 'fish'.

I stress this is just my opinion and the decision is entirely up to you.

[harrassed senior]

Hi

 

 

There are two entries on my credit file from the OC and the DCA which are identical and according to the CRA, the DCA can do this as they have bought it and 'my original credit agreement' allows them to. I have disputed this as there is no credit agreement.

 

I am fairly sure that this is incorrect, I have been told on numerous occasions that you can have only one Default registered for each seperate debt. When the OC sells the debt the DCA should take over this CRA entry as it is only ever the first default date that should be used. They are not permitted to enter their own default. I will try and find the relevant confirmation of this for you.

[silverfox1961]

Harassed Senior is quite correct. Only one default per debt.

 

What should happen is that when a DCA BUYS the debt (as opposed to collecting on behalf of the creditor) they then replace the original creditors name with their own.

 

If two defaults appear for the same debt (even if the dates are the same) one needs removing. If two defaults appear with different dates then the newest needs removing

[harrassed senior]

Thanks SF have been searching ICO's site, for confirmation, but had to come up for breath

[coledog]

Thanks for that guys I really appreciate it! I have an ongoing battle with Equifax about this and will use this as ammunition as I thought it was wrong.

 

As Gettingsorted has no defaults registered by the OC- luckily, I am assuming that the purchaser cannot now put a default on there retrospectively.

[the_shadow]

From the ICO Default Guidlines

 

The ‘sale’ or assignment of debts on defaulted accounts

 

52 When the rights to a debt are sold to a third party, the lender has to make sure the records with the credit reference agency are accurate, up to date and adequate. If they want information about the debts to continue on the credit reference file they will need to come to an agreement with the purchaser about who is to be responsible for this.

 

53 If the purchaser agrees to take control of the record, the customer should be informed that the debt has been sold or assigned and to whom. The credit reference agency file should be changed to show the name of the purchaser and that the rights to the debt have been sold or assigned. The purchaser should then make sure the record is kept up to date including changes to the amount still owed. The purchase should not affect how long the record is kept. It should be removed six years after the default.

 

54 Where the purchaser of the debt does not agree to take control of the record, the original lender, and at least in part the credit reference agency, will remain responsible if the original record is kept on the file. When the debt is sold or assigned, the customer will no longer owe any money to the original lender. If the record is not removed, the sale or assignment should be recorded and the balance should be shown as zero. The customer should still be told who the debt has been sold or assigned to.

 

HTH

 

S.

[gettingsorted]

Well , I ignored them but have today received a letter from Fire Ltd demanding payment immediately and telling me to contact one of their agents by telephone.

 

Any suggestions what I do now - now starting to worry a bit !

 

The balance has gone up more than £50 in a fortnight !

 

Thanks

[Stigman]

FIRE is Cabot, same printer, different letterhead.

[coledog]

You can either still ignore as they are still fishing or send the following with a £1 postal order. If they do not reply to this you can put the account in dispute then they cannot charge interest or conduct collection activities until they come up with an agreement. They have 12 plus 2 working days to reply. Send to the DCA chasing this.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading

Regulations 2008 (CPUTR). I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

 

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

**Edit to suit**

 

(Print do not sign signature

)

[gettingsorted]

Thanks for that - If I ignore what do you think the next move on their part would be ?

 

Have had paperwork from the credit agencies now and there is a default registered in the name of Citi about 12 mths after the last communication from them (2007) - I did not receive this default. I am assuming from previous posts that they cannot default me again but will try to chase the debt by threatening court, etc ?

[coledog]

If you ignore you may get more threats but I doubt if the debt has an enforcable agreement - my dispute with another DCA is a Citi card and I have not found any one here who has received an agreement yet. You can send the CCA request at any time if you feel threatened. There is an old thread that someone has just updated which may be of interest. link below:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?53926-Citi-Cards-Cabot(1-Viewing)-nbsp

[gettingsorted]

Well - the phone calls have started ! two so far - one which I refused to speak to them when they identified themselves and then my OH answered and said I wasn't in. I have begun to list the number of calls.

I therefore have decided to request the CCA; should I SAR as well so that I can see how the charges have totted up since my last statement.

[coledog]

Yes - CCA request as outlined above. If they are ringing there is a telephone harassment letter that you can send also - I will find the link. Don't engage in conversation with them, refuse to answer any security questions and just say in writing only, I will not discuss.

 

If it is anything like my Citi card agreement, you will be waiting a long time!

 

There is an account in dispute letter to send if no valid agreement sent within 12 plus 2 working days of posting.

Edited October 19, 2010 by coledog

[coledog]

Do not sign anything - print name It is also worth a SAR to Citi

 

Telephone harassment letter

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?493-Harassment-by-telephone-response-letter

 

 

Account in dispute letter

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?436-Failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale.

 

SAR letter to Citi Card - Data Controller

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?417-A-Subject-Access-Request-for

[gettingsorted]

Thanks for those .............I have not signed ! I'm learning a lot on here ! SAR on the way. Cabot have kindly given me the account number !

[gettingsorted]

Just an update - no CCA has turned up therefore account in dispute letter being sent.

[coledog]

Send recorded, don't sign as before.

[gettingsorted]

CCA Request posted on 19/10; reply recived from Cabot dated 20/10 stating I should receive within 12 days ..............when can I send out the in dispute letter - is it 4 or 5 Nov. ?

Thanks