Cabot claimform - old Citi Card 'debt' **SETTLED BY TOMLIN**

[gettingsorted]

Brilliant shadow - thank you so much.........as I said couldn't get my head round it and of course am a bit too close to the situation! Much appreciated.

GS

[the_shadow]

Brilliant shadow - thank you so much.........as I said couldn't get my head round it and of course am a bit too close to the situation! Much appreciated.

GS

 

Sorry for the formatting, I did try and add spaces but it stripped them out :-(S.

[gettingsorted]

No worries I understand it all !!

[gettingsorted]

Sent the letter Registered on the XX May and today received their reply :

 

Thank you for your letter dated the xx May.

 

Once proceedings have commenced there is a formal process to be followed.

 

You will currently have in your possession (or will receive shortly) a Response Pack. This pack contains N9A admission form and various other documents that should be completed and returned to us. Full instructions are given in the pack as to what action you need to take.

 

If you have any queries please call one of our litigation officers on ..................... and our hours of opening are ...............

 

Yours sincerely

 

preprinted Morgan

 

Please may I have your suggestions anc comments on the above. They have not replied at all to my letter !

 

There are a couple of things about the Recon agreement sent to me to which I am unsure as well as what I received from Citi in the SAR; I don't really want to go into it on the open forum in case it gets back but if anyone would be willing to hear me out via PM I would appreciate it.

Thanks

[gettingsorted]

Help please !

[the_shadow]

Ok, I'm afraid its the norm for DCA's and their solicitors to ignore anything you write to them...

 

Have you actually received a court claim yet? They indicate they are sending one via the Northampton Bulk Court but until you get it its as valid as a note written on a fag packet tbh.

 

Once you get it then the stakes are raised but you'll get your chance to defend and show a judge that you have sought clarification on numerous attempts and have yet to be responded to properly.

 

S.

[gettingsorted]

Thanks shadow for your input; I know I just have to sit and wait - trying not too worry. Other stuff going on too (not debt related) which is a bit stressful ! I have reread the Recon agreements and the paperwork I have from them and have noticed a couple of things which may help but obviously don't want them on open forum - would it be OK if I sent you a pm about it for your input.

Thanks

[the_shadow]

Sorry but one of the main site rules is that advice given by PM is forbidden, even more so for Site Team members. The two main reasons are a) if I give you bad advice and nobody else gets to see it and would have been able to potentially correct it and b) Its not sharing advise with other forum members.

 

S.

[Shelley181146]

It might be useful if you can scan a copy of the letter which you sent them, blanking out personal info to see what they have ignored.

 

I am in similar position with Citi and Cabot and have experienced their ignorance to anything I have written to them also. Without wishing to sound patronising, try to 'switch off' for 24 hours and then revisit when you feel more able to cope.

 

You have evidence that you are communicating and they're not, so when the court papers arrive you will have the opportunity to put your case forward.

 

Stay strong. There's plenty of good people on here to help you through this.

Shelley

[gettingsorted]

Thanks Shelley - will do so later tonight; Thanks for your support and no you are not patronising. You know my friends say that I am very calm and reassuring to them when they have problems - yes like a swan gliding calmly on the exterior and paddling furiously underneath ! My husband just laughed and said yes - that's what antidepressants do to help !

[Shelley181146]

Will check back later this evening. Laughter is the best antidepressant for me. Laugh all the way to the bank when they reimburse PPI and unfair charges and put your credit report back in order

[gettingsorted]

[Born To Be]

In a similar situation to you but am already down the road of having received papers from Northampton - sadly we have a DJ who favours claimants so I have to be very careful before landing up with another CCJ!

[Shelley181146]

Just had an interesting conversation with Cabot who seem to be under the impression that when unfair charges are recovered from Cap One that they forward any outstanding balance to Cabot first, then the remainder to the client!!! I explained that as Cap One had sold the debt on that they could only send money to the client and not to any third party. Cabot seem to disagree.

 

What's the legal situation surrounding this please?

 

Shelley

[MARTIN3030]

This is an old trick which Citi tried to pull.

The position is that your original contractual agreement was with CAP1

It is they who took the charges,and they who are responsible to refund them.

When the account is sold (assigned) then all title to it is assigned.

But this should not affect any repayments that are due for issues which arose from when the agreement was still in force.

Also there was nothing in the agreement I bet which stated that any default fees which were later refunded would be passed on to any third party.

Neither are they able to vary those terms AFTER the agreement has ended and account disposed of.

 

This is like saying,You bought a car from a Finance company who were selling it cheap after a reposession.

The Finance company then went chasing the original lender for the money...then paid half of it to you !!

 

Do you think anyone would believe that if you told them ?

 

If they are withholding any portion of what you are due,then you need to inform them that you will file a claim for recovery of the shortfall.

I have seen one or two copies of deeds of assignment,and nowhere in there have I ever seen any clauses or wording to the effect that any charges recovered will be passed to the assignee later.

This is just something they are making up.

[Shelley181146]

That's very much appreciated Martin, Thank you.

 

Are you able to point me in the direction of any threads which may have similar circumstances which I may follow?

 

They got my back up when they terminated the call and recorded inaccurate notes on their system, so I am more than happy to see them in court.

 

I have requested that Cap One refund the unfair charges and will see what they offer, or not as the case maybe.

 

Regards

Shelley

[the_shadow]

We would always advise NOT to contact anyone in regards financial matters by phone unless you can record the call, then you have cast iron proof of who said what. Alas many DCA's know exactly which buttons to push when dealing with people and how to pressure people into making snap decisions they regret later.

 

A letter takes time to digest and can be read over and over to get the true meaning, a single phone conversation relies on your brain taking it in once and only once.... unless its recorded.

 

S.

[Shelley181146]

Hi Shadow,

 

I totally understand where your coming from but I have only recently 'found' CAG and we had already got an arrangement with Cabot since 07 so I expect a call from them 6 monthly for a review, and today was no different, it was review time. However, my OH and I were on the phone, albeit, I was doing the talking because my OH is not well so he was able to make notes. Not ideal I agree but there won't be any more.

 

If Cabot turn it nasty they won't get anything. Our plan was to offer something in F&F settlement once we received the charges from Cap One but we will wait and see what their response is going to be.

 

Respect your post

 

Shelley

[MARTIN3030]

Shelley,the situ I was reffing too By that I mean examples is what Smithy who was then a top dog on Citi legal team,was doing.

Its much the same as we have seen with the likes of Lloyds and Barclays who have tried to set off refunds against other accounts.

If memory serves me right-the FSA have issued guidance now on set offs.

This is not exactly the same but in principle it is setting off.

I am not too clear as to the situ here-has there already been portions reconciled-or has it been informed that this is their position ?

Where we have seen them doing this once a claim has been filed,it is quite cut and dried,since they will refund you a partial amount and expect you to accept,but you keep the claim live on the basis that settlement in full has not been made.

I understand your ignorance in the past of the need to deal in writing.

Actually this was something I only learned myself when I found theCAG in 2006

[Shelley181146]

The situ here is that an old Cap One card got sold to Cabot because although PPI had been asked for they didn't apply and my OH got seriously ill and we lost the business back in 04. Because of loosing the business we also lost the home and we moved around for awhile and it wasn't until 07 that we agreed a nominal payment to Cabot. However, since recently finding CAG, I have SAR'd Cap One and Cabot have a six monthly review to check on our circumstances so I expect a call periodically from them and this week was no different.

 

I have already sent letter to oc to claim unfair charges and await their response but Cabot seemed to think that Cap One will pay them first and send any remaining funds to us. IF that happens, I will still keep our claim live and go the court route to claim the difference but my letter to oc stipulates that the refund is due directly to my OH and no other org or third party so time will tell.

 

I will be contacting FSA to get clarification on this point and will post their reply. (assuming this is permitted?).

 

I have Citicard in similar position

[MARTIN3030]

Ok understood.

I am not too sure if the OFT or FSA will actually clarify on this point.

In the same way where they maintained that just because the OC or Assignee have not complied with a CC request,it doesn't mean that they cannot chase payments.

They told me this when I asked-in fact they more or less said if a payment plan was in place it should be maintained.

They said only a Court could rule.

The crux of it is down to the unfairness or lawfulness of the charges.

What the banks and CC issuers will maintain is that the OFT deemed 12 quid was acceptable.

But they did rule that only a court could decide in any completeness or words to that effect.

Therefore I can see them responding in the same way here.

It still remains a grey area for them.

[MARTIN3030]

We are still building jigsaws with CC claims.

Citi in almost all cases will defend,and produce figures from their so called in house accountant come forensic,to claim it actually costs them MORE than 12 quid to deal with a default or late payment.

 

Lloyds will defend and push the case,but settle before trial.

 

We have seen Barclaycard settle even with compound interest well before Court.

 

Halifax/BOS were initially bottling but we are now told of a challenge.

[gettingsorted]

Well the "eagerly":!: awaited court papers have arrived am currently collecting all the paperwork together and will tomorrow (as advised by shadow) post up the sequence of events so far - think I'm going to need a bit of help here from my fellow caggers - OH and DS want me to defend so comments will be appreciated when after i've posted it up !

Thank you

[gettingsorted]

Right folks - I would really appreciate some help and comments on the summary below please ! I'm afraid I don't know where to start :-

 

Late in 2005 I became seriously ill and because of this my income fell; I struggled trying to pay household bills, cards and so on but finally in mid 2006 gave up and made arrangements with my creditors for payments, etc. They all agreed other than Citi Cards. During this time one of my parents became ill with terminal cancer and the worry with the whole situation was dreadful .

I played telephone ping pong with citi for a while (not found CAG at that time) but was continually speaking to a call centre overseas !! who seemed to be obviously following the usual script “you must pay arrears now, give us your debit card details” I kept asking them to get someone from the UK to ring but nothing doing. I finally wrote to them and they sent me an Income and expenditure form to complete which I did. During this time I was still getting account overdue and overlimit letters ! I finally got a letter about six weeks after I had returned to I & E saying no way or in their terms “we are unable to accept you onto a reduced payment scheme at this time” and they asked me to contact them – guess what back to the overseas call centre ! after some more telephone ping pong I finally paid them a nominal payment and was told that one of their UK people would ring me to discuss a proper arrangement. They never did! the last letter I have on file is dated late 2006 and the last statement I have is also late 2006. By the way, when I initially contacted them in 2006 the debt was around £3000

 

Now I know that I should have carried on chasing when they did not contact me but by this time my parent was very ill and was undergoing aggressive treatment so obviously my priorities were there – I suspect I was also playing ostrich.

 

That was the last I heard until late last summer – by this time I am finally ‘getting sorted’ and some creditors are even paid off; only one CCJ – also not far off being settled.

 

Copies of most of the letters listed below are attached.

 

I received a letter from Cabot stating that the debt had been assigned to them – this letter was titled “Welcome to Cabot” and they were demanding payment of just under £5000 and so on. This was a standard letter. A pre-printed Notice of assignment headed Citi was attached. I ignored this as you can see from earlier in the thread.

 

14 days later a pay up or else letter from Fire !

 

12 days after that I send them a CCA request by rd; at this time I also sent a SAR to Citi

 

A couple of days later I receive a holding letter stating they are contacting the OC.

 

Two weeks later another holding letter

 

Ten days later another holding letter

 

Sorry to be vague about dates

 

Seven days after I write to say account in dispute

 

Three days later I receive a final response with two RECON agreements – one dated around the time they state I took the card out and another dated very late in 2007 !

 

They then start sending repaying your account letters out again as well as I & E forms and a letter asking for my phone number (very early on I had told them to stop harassing me by phone).

 

In December I sent them a CPUTR letter and received a very long reply stating that they had complied with the law. The Repaying your Account letters continue.

 

In January I sent them another Account in dispute letter saying that they had not replied to my previous letter.

 

In early March I receive a nasty letter threatening court action, etc if I do not repay – the balance is now over £5000. In reply they receive yet another account in dispute letter !

 

In late March I get a letter saying they are going to take further action unless I pay up ! In reply yet another account in dispute letter. In response I send a virtual copy of the previous account in dispute letter; up to now I had sent the letter either RD or Special but this one only went first class as I decided I was throwing money away at them.

 

Just before Easter I get a letter from Morgans threatening Court Action. I reply by sending copies of all the previous letters I had sent them. To which they replied

 

“Thank you for your letter dated the xx May.

 

Once proceedings have commenced there is a formal process to be followed.

 

You will currently have in your possession (or will receive shortly) a Response Pack. This pack contains N9A admission form and various other documents that should be completed and returned to us. Full instructions are given in the pack as to what action you need to take.

 

If you have any queries please call one of our litigation officers on ..................... and our hours of opening are ...............

 

Yours sincerely

 

preprinted Morgan”

 

I have today received the court papers. Can someone please look at them – are the dates I have scribbled on correct for responses.

 

Attached below are copies of all the letters received in reply and the ones I have sent out. I have not bothered with the Repay the Account or else nor the the Fire one as they are standard letter. Nor have I made a copy of the last letter received from Morgan as I have written the text out. Some of the copies are not good but readable I think.

 

The SAR response from Citi was quite interesting :-

 

The letter states roughly :

“letters are not routinely kept as they are issued by the customer management system and which only shows letter types and dates sent and this information is only routinely held for 2 years”

 

A copy of my application details .

 

It includes statements up to Sept 2010. The last statement I have is dated late 2006 and I have them all prior to that, the statements which are a nonsense...they appear to have stopped charging interest and penalties on the account in early 2008 and each statement from then on is requesting a minimum payment that never changes – it is the minimum payment from Dec 2006 less the nominal payment I made, which is due by the 1 xxx 2008. Every single copy statement from 2008 to 2010 states this ? The interest rates on the statements change to 25% from 0% in 2004; and then to 23% in then to 22% (both in 2005) then to 30% in mid 2006 (this immediately after I told them I was having difficulties). The two RECON CCA’s have two interest rates – one in 2004 of 25% and one in late 2007 of 30%.

A Customer Service Notes copy which includes three entries - two mentioning account sold to Cabot and one mentioning my SAR. There is a note on the bottom which says ALL CUSTOMER SERVICE NOTES PRIOR TO THIS PURGED FROM SYSTEM;

A copy of the Income and Expenditure which I gave them in 2006 - they do not have the letter sending it out, but I do have it, as well as the letter refusing to accept me onto a reduced payment scheme in reply to my Income and Expenditure.

NO CREDIT AGREEMENT was enclosed but they have said that they have given me a copy of the information held on the application (btw they got my name wrong!) this is just a computer print out.

 

My questions / points are :

 

Firstly about the Court papers - I have scribbled some dates on the second page - are these correct, if I defend do I have to be in Court on the day the defense is submitted or do they then issue a date ? How much notice am I given if they issue a date ? What if I can’t make it?

 

Also

1. Why would I have signed a further CCA with them in 2007 when I had already informed them of my difficulties?

2. Are the CCA’s correct in what they are showing. What about the interest changes?

3. Why are all the statements showing the payment due date as earlier than the statement date? Why did I stop receiving statements?

4. What about the Customer Service Notes being purged. There is no info about my account there – I have tried twice for this info.

5. I do not have a DN on file but there is one on one of my credit records for Citi although I just checked yesterday on Equifax but it doesn’t seem to be on there.

6. Can I use the fact that I have attempted on several occasions to contact them with no response to resolve the CCA situation as part of my defence if I defend.

7. There are charges of around 500 (mostly 25 each time) and there is PPI of around 500 neither of these include interest – can I try to reclaim.

8. What about offering to settle?

9. I object to Citi trying to claim interest on my account from after I tried to sort out the situation and they were not responding to me.

10. Why did Citi increase my interest rate immediately after I notified them of being in financial difficulty.

11. Do I return the response pack to them ? I think not!

 

ATTACHMENTS REMOVED DUE TO ID ISSUES - WILL BE REPOSTED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE .......SORRY

Edited June 6, 2011 by gettingsorted

[lamb909]

Hello GS

I am sorry I cant be of any help as I'm having trouble doing my own thingh too but hopefully someone will be along soon, either on my thread, see the message and then come to yours or come straight here. Just a thought, might it be worth asking the Site Team to move this thread to the Legal Issues board?

 

Also, your Copy Letters pdf cannot be opened.

 

Also, I found this statement on my Citi thread, don't know if it will be useful as I see Martin is already posting on this thread (hope he doesnt mind me posting it here, it may of no use at all, apologies if it isn't

 

Wait a min are we talking about an Associates card ?

This was an early card which we still have terms and conditions

for in our Citi stickies.

Actually these are gold since Citi were reluctant to release these saying they had no copies.

Associate Terms & Conditions were published in July 2002.

Essentially it was not a Citi contract,but one which was adopted

According to the terms and conditions

,Associates were part of

Citifinancial International.

We observed some very useful info for use by claimants in relation to these terms and conditions

,which unfortunately we cant post here since these are still needed for ongoing claims,and our knowledge that Citi are still closely monitoring these forums.

Hope you get some help soon mate and the best of luck, I only wish I could help

 

Lamb