THE INDEPENDANT CASE EXAMINER / ESA/ATOS/DWP complaint

[COUNTMEIN]

Hi All

Could anyone here let me know if they have ever made a 'complaint' to the indepndent case examiner? and if so, what was the outcome?

The Independent Case Examiner Website - Home Page

 

I complained to my MP and ATOS/DWP regarding how my 'medical' assesment was conducted? i.e. that they never followed the doctors guidelnes when carrying out the "medical" as per the DWP guidence handbook when making assesments for ESA - AND I MEAN IN A MAJOR WAY!! - This resulted in the allocaton of my points being unfair and inaccurate!....

 

The response I received from the top people at the DWP did not address or explain to me why procedures where not carried out by ATOS in my case?? so I am still left 'wondering'? ( and fuming) about this...

 

I do know that they can't take on 'cases on law/legislation" but I was wondering will they take on my case/complaint as I consider that I have not received an adequate explanation from them in their reply to my complaint

 

Thanks guys ( & gals)

 

regards

 

countmein x

[honeybee13]

Hi there, poor you. Sigh...

 

Any other organisation that didn't follow its own procedures would be up the proverbial creek without a paddle. I don't know the answer at the moment.

 

Has anyone seen Erika lately? She'd probably know.

 

HB x

[ErikaPNP]

It's difficult to say. Your complaint really lies with ATOS rather than DWP as it is ATOS whom have failed in their service delivery here. You could certainly raise a complaint on the basis that you went to ATOS for an assessment because DWP said you had to in order to claim benefit and you have complained to DWP because as a result of improper procedure on ATOS' part, your benefit entitlement has been affected, but your complaint has resulted in none of the issues being taken forward. You could argue that as DWP contracts ATOS to perform these medicals DWP should investigate these complaints and address the issues. However be prepared that you may get the response that they cannot deal with your complaint because it is ATOS the complaint is about.

 

In order to take a complaint about this to the independent case examiner, you need to have exhausted the JCP complaints process. If you have had a response from the Chief Executive (or someone acting on his behalf) that's as far as you can go with JCP and then you can take your complaint to ICE.

 

I'm just not certain whether they would accept that it is DWP that the complaint should be against. On that basis, I'd say take it to ICE - it is free and the worst that will happen is they will tell you that they cannot deal with your complaint.

 

Have you complained to ATOS at all? Or appealed the decision in regard to your benefit?

[honeybee13]

Speak of angels and hear their wings.. Hello Erika, I hope you're well.

 

I tried to send you a PM the other day, but your mailbox was full.

 

Countmein, I hope you get justice. I think your username says a lot about you, don't give up.

 

HB x

[ErikaPNP]

Hi honeybee. I'm good, thanks - just swamped right now, so not been able to answer as many threads as I would like. Hope everything's well with you.

 

I'll give my mailbox a clearout so you can send that pm - it just fills up constantly these days!

[RaeUK]

Out of curiosity, if ATOSH are the DWPs contractors, then wouldn't the DWP be ultimately responsible for their contractors behaviour and actions?

 

Obviously, I'm thinking bailiff forum here! The bailiff is the contracted collecting agent of the council for CT arrears. Whilst the company may have a complaints procedure, the CEO of the council has ultimate responsibility and will often have a Formal Complaint fired off in their direction...

 

Is it a similar thing just on a very big scale?

 

Best wishes

Rae

[ErikaPNP]

The DWP are not responsible for the actions of ATOS per say but if the actions of ATOS do not follow the contract set out in the agreement they have with DWP or guidelines they are expected to follow in disability assessment and this affects a claimant then I would be inclined from a common sense perspective, to say (such as in this case) that DWP have a responsibility to investigate the complaint made and address issues that they find. However as I do not specifically know that to be the case, I can only advise accordingly. Which is to raise a complaint but be prepared for being told "not our problem". As I said the worst that can possibly happen is him being advised that ICE cannot take this on.

 

Whether DWP actually has responsibility here, I really do not know. This is definately something that countmein should seek to find out though, as it will give more weight.

 

If he feels the process has resulted in him wrongly losing benefit he should appeal because that is what the appeal procedure exists for. He can of course complain at the same time however if he has not appealed he seriously needs to consider doing this as well because it may come to a point where it is too late to lodge an appeal. A complaint will not necceserily reinstate his benefit though it may result in some financial recompense. He should do both here.

[honeybee13]

But if I've kept up with the plot, we don't know the details of the contract between the DWP and Atos and they don't want it known, is that right?

 

HB

[honeybee13]

Duplicate post erased.

Edited May 13, 2010 by honeybee13
Where did the original one go for a couple of minutes?

[ErikaPNP]

There are *alleged* contracts floating about on the internet. I don't trust any one of them for 2 reasons:

 

1. I have never come across any of these alleged "internet available" contracts that I have been able to trust; I have only ever seen parts of them quoted, and never have I seen the source of it. i.e I have never seen an email which contains an actual attachement from the DWP or from ATOS with the contract attached - the sources I have come across cannot be verified.

 

2. I have never seen any of these alleged "internet available" contracts which is signed by both parties to verify the source.

 

 

You can know the details of the contract under the freedom of infomation act. However they will not provide the contract in full as certain parts of it are exempt under sections 40 and 43 of the Freedom of information act. I've seen it (with the exempted parts omitted) but a long, long time ago (I'm talking years) - I wouldn't be surpised if it had been replaced with an updated contract, particularly in view of the introduction of ESA.

 

You can put in a request for it online here: WhatDoTheyKnow - make and browse Freedom of Information (FOI) requests

 

They will post the response online within 40 days. This is a verified source

[honeybee13]

Erika, I don't mean to be negative, but does that mean that anyone wanting to complain is caught in a Catch 22 between Atos and the DWP? It's late, I may have misunderstood, and I hope I'm wrong.

 

HB x

[COUNTMEIN]

It's difficult to say. Your complaint really lies with ATOS rather than DWP as it is ATOS whom have failed in their service delivery here. You could certainly raise a complaint on the basis that you went to ATOS for an assessment because DWP said you had to in order to claim benefit and you have complained to DWP because as a result of improper procedure on ATOS' part, your benefit entitlement has been affected, but your complaint has resulted in none of the issues being taken forward. You could argue that as DWP contracts ATOS to perform these medicals DWP should investigate these complaints and address the issues. However be prepared that you may get the response that they cannot deal with your complaint because it is ATOS the complaint is about.

 

In order to take a complaint about this to the independent case examiner, you need to have exhausted the JCP complaints process. If you have had a response from the Chief Executive (or someone acting on his behalf) that's as far as you can go with JCP and then you can take your complaint to ICE.

 

I'm just not certain whether they would accept that it is DWP that the complaint should be against. On that basis, I'd say take it to ICE - it is free and the worst that will happen is they will tell you that they cannot deal with your complaint.

 

Have you complained to ATOS at all? Or appealed the decision in regard to your benefit?

 

Thank you very much erika and all

 

Yes I am appealing and going to tribunal.

I complained to ATOS with my concerns regarding the way in which the assesment was carried out.

I also told my MP of my concerns regarding the way the assement was conducted . He wrote to Jonathan ShawMP with his concerns and this is when ATOS finally replied to me and said that because I had escalated my compaint to my MP they were told to not contact me but to communicate only with DWP.

DWP eventually did respond and said that ATOS ( being there "PARTNERS" ) had 'in his opinion' carried out the assesment correctly but gave no explanation of why they hadn't conducted the assesment according to the ESA DOCTORS GUIDELINES/HANDBOOK..

It was this letter from him that stated at the end, that if I wasn't happy with the response I could contact THE INDEPNDENT CASE EXAMINER and it gave me their details

I REALLY want to put in a formal complaint as I know I dont have anything to lose..., but I have that much on my plate at the moment ( with hospital check-ups and operations ahead, PLUS the Appeal I am trying to prepare for!! )I just dont know if I have the strength TBH to take on something else

Thank you very much again

Regards

 

countmein

[honeybee13]

Countmein, we're ready to help whenever you feel up to pursuing your case. Just ask. HB x

[COUNTMEIN]

Countmein, we're ready to help whenever you feel up to pursuing your case. Just ask. HB x

 

awh thank you very much honeybee-you are very kind;)

 

In fact I have just telephoned them about it...

 

They have took all the particulars and are now going to do a few checks. You have had to exhaust all other routes etc regarding your complaint i.e. wrote to the relevant departments etc and have given them chance to resolve matters!! ( which I have and they haven't:confused:)....

 

I Tend to think, 'what harm can it do'... As the gentleman I've just spoke to said.....Everyones entitled to 'complain' if they're not happy with the way things are dealt with!...

n He said they are impartial and not conected with Government so look at 'complaints' from both sides...

He did say that they are 'VERY BUSY' with their current workload! ( can't think why') so it will be 3 to 4 weeks before someone gets back in touch...

 

watch this space...

 

thanks hun

 

best wishes

 

countmein x

 

ps ...Wonder how CBBC GETTING ON...It's like waiting for news of a birth? lol Hope everything has gone/is going well?

[ErikaPNP]

Erika, I don't mean to be negative, but does that mean that anyone wanting to complain is caught in a Catch 22 between Atos and the DWP? It's late, I may have misunderstood, and I hope I'm wrong.

 

HB x

 

Not neccesserily - it simply means I don't know.

[patrickq1]

You can complain to the ice but i am sure you need the backing of your MP to forward this complaint,the ICE DEPT are not of much use i think they have been swamped with a flood of complaints ever since esa begun and they cannot handle the volume so your file might take more than a year just to be looked at or get lost in a clean up...?

Atos are subject to s.40 &s43 like Erika says they may give you very very limited amount of information otherwise they will only pass the info back to the DWP who will inform you that under the contract they have with DWP they do not hold any data other than electronic data and that means probably one single page fat lot of use that will be..

but a complaint is still worth making provided you can get your MP to instigate this then you might see action.

good luck

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

good to see you back Erika

patrickq1

[COUNTMEIN]

Just an update

 

Have today received reply and it says they will get back to me within 25 days, but due to the volume of complaints this is not always the case..'

 

it does state that they, 'I-C-E' , "" looks into maladministration ( poor service )by the Department for Work and Pensions and it's agencies, for example, delay in taking appropriate action, taking incorrect action ( think this is the catergory my complaint would fall into), failure to respond adequately to correspondence ( and maybe this catergory too?) misinforming customers etc.""....it goes onto say that benefit calculations /entitlements etc can not be dealt with by them...

 

So think A LOT of people on here could perhaps consider contacting them??...Nothing to lose, is now my motto!!

 

Regards

 

countmein x

[loopinlouie]

A good motto COUNTMEIN:D

[patrickq1]

o good motto worth complaining but really do not expect a lot to happen if they find anything to get out of investigating a complaint they will,but still worth a complaint but remember you must keep the complaint factual and not what you think so you need to keep all personal feelings out of it

patrickq1

[COUNTMEIN]

o good motto worth complaining but really do not expect a lot to happen if they find anything to get out of investigating a complaint they will,but still worth a complaint but remember you must keep the complaint factual and not what you think so you need to keep all personal feelings out of it

patrickq1

 

Thank you..

 

Yes I understand that!...I will / have kept to the facts of the matter. I know that'll probably be a worthless cause no doubt.? ( little guys v BIG guys.) but hey, I REALLY feel that strongly about it and the way in which the medical assessment was carried out on me. Not 'one jot ' of the VISION section of the guidelines supplied to ATOS by the DWP was carried out / performed on me...Even a DM at the DWP when asking ATOS for a reevaluation commented on her 'concerns' regarding this and asked them to re-assess me - but ATOS said no. This same decision maker states on a document thats going to TRIBUNAL that 'she 'disagrees' with the HCP & Original DM choice of points/descriptors.

It's not just a matter of 'my word against theres' and believe me , there are plenty ofdown-right lies and factual errors on the report carried out by ATOS but thats another 'battle', for another day.....

 

My 'personal' views and opinions of what I really think about the ESA/DWP/ATOS SHAM wouldn't be printable here... But I have set them views aside!!! In fact I am all for a system that gets the 'workshy of their backsides and contributing to this country! - What I resent is me being seen in the same , shameless light as them...Because ATOS says-so!!

 

I know this much...I THINK THAT THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS A DOWNRIGHT DISGRACE!! - When sick people, who have contributed to the country for best part of their lives, who, now finding themselves with health problems as they get older and should be spending their time recouperating and recovering find themselves having to fight 'tooth and nail' for a measly £65 or whatever it is...DISGUSTING THATS WHAT IT IS...

 

Rant over-sorry! I will stick to the facts - thank you again

[scousegeezer]

Hi All,

How about making a complaint of " Gross Misconduct in public office" - telling lies. When I had my WCA a couple of weeks ago, I was only in there for about 15mins. I was not asked how long I can sit for, how long I can stand for or how long I could remain at a workstation for without having to go for a little walk. The "doctor" who conducted the WCA seemed more interested in asking me if I fed my cats. Yep that's right. I told him I did , he has probably interpreted that as meaning I can bend to the florr which I can't. The report will probably read that I can bend over and touch my toes , which I can't. To feed my cats I use a reacher ( a grabby thing) . So when my report comes through and states I can stand for x mins and sit for x mins , I will also wish to make a complaint. I rather think the complaint outlined above is the one I would make. If ebough people make this complaint after receiving a copy of their lying report, then someone, somewhere sghould start taking notice.

 

Thoughts.

Cheers - Scousegeezer

[patrickq1]

dont worry bout the rant lol ive done my fair share about atos and their cowboys and asked numerous ministers but the ministers are all in the same pot,,,

patrickq1

[COUNTMEIN]

Hi All,

How about making a complaint of " Gross Misconduct in public office" - telling lies. When I had my WCA a couple of weeks ago, I was only in there for about 15mins. I was not asked how long I can sit for, how long I can stand for or how long I could remain at a workstation for without having to go for a little walk. The "doctor" who conducted the WCA seemed more interested in asking me if I fed my cats. Yep that's right. I told him I did , he has probably interpreted that as meaning I can bend to the florr which I can't. The report will probably read that I can bend over and touch my toes , which I can't. To feed my cats I use a reacher ( a grabby thing) . So when my report comes through and states I can stand for x mins and sit for x mins , I will also wish to make a complaint. I rather think the complaint outlined above is the one I would make. If ebough people make this complaint after receiving a copy of their lying report, then someone, somewhere sghould start taking notice.

 

Thoughts.

Cheers - Scousegeezer

 

Hi scousegeezer, yep, think that'll be the case 'IMHO' unfortunately.

ATOS seem to be ' a law unto themselves,' don't think any other organisation, be it government or private would be allowed to get away with such actions!..

we are all hoping that one day 'there'll be an 'uprising' and this absolute sham of a system will be amended. I tend to think that now the election is over, it would appear that the media are now more ready to bring this to light?? - We shall see???

 

good luck with the 'outcome'

 

regards

 

countmein x

[COUNTMEIN]

dont worry bout the rant lol ive done my fair share about atos and their cowboys and asked numerous ministers but the ministers are all in the same pot,,,

patrickq1

 

lol

 

and as for the ministers all being in the same pot...think that's 'literally' now they've got into bed together...Do you think that's good or bad for us? x