Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Supreme court rules


Consumer dude
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5235 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

It's pretty simple really, don't break the rules and there aren't any penalty charges.

 

What is it with you people ?

 

lol i saw that interview also, did you see how much botox the bank spokeswoman had, i suppose that was to stop her laughing all the way to the bank

TOTALLY debt free as of 2007, Fantastic,

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 360
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

It's pretty simple really, don't break the rules and there aren't any penalty charges.

 

What is it with you people ?

 

I don't have any charges to claim back at the moment anyway, as it happens, but for some it isn't just about that, it's about holding the banks to account for their OWN RULE BREAKING.

 

Vegnomeat is a troll, anyone know of a large billy goat who needs a troll kicking contract?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Financial institutions never face any penalties and Never break the rules? That's why the FSA has issued a record £28 million in fines to financial firms. Get it into your head that without this revenue stream the banks will be determined to grab their billions from the taxpayer and every current holder in the land.

 

Anyone with a current account. Move it if you can to the Nationwide or the Co-op. Where the customers are the shareholders. Let the High Street Robbers go back to their profitable investment banking that caused the economic meltdown.

 

Well said, they were fined 28 million pounds, if you take advantage of an unauthorised overdraft you too will pay a penalty, if they write to you telling you so you will pay for their letter. However, if you stuck to the terms and conditions of the Bank you won't pay any penalties, simple really.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Finally, after posting the wrong case up, the Judgment is available on the SC Website.

 

Here's the judgment.

 

http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/docs/uksc_2009_0070_judgmentV2.pdf

 

I suggest reading it. It really is not the doomsday decision that everyone thinks it is. The OFT lost the right to assess the charges for fairness. That is all. We have not lost any rights in respect of challenging the fairness of the terms, although the banks have admittedly gained a lot of ground with this ruling remember that was from a position of caving in to just about every claim without contesting it in court.

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Peter could be right about lifting the stay.

 

However, I think this also needs a co-ordinated campaign to clearly state how unhappy with the decision we consumers are:

 

Options:

 

1) A petition on the No 10 webisite express our disgust and outrage urging the goverment to overturn this decision.

 

2) A Rally in Central London to follow up the above.

 

Whatever we do we shouldnt just roll over and die.

 

ST

 

Totally agree..if this was France or some minority hard-done by group the streets would be awash with angry people.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is going to be where the action is I think:-

 

UK and EC competition law prohibit two main types of anti-competitive activity:

 

  • anti-competitive agreements (under the Chapter I and Article 81 prohibitions); and
  • abuse of dominant market position (under the Chapter II / Article 82 prohibitions).

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you took a little off each exorberant (spelt wrong sorry) bonuses then surely 2 odd billion would be made up easily to make us the ordinary person not struggle as much

 

I hope Crapstone gets total support we should all move our money to under the matress -

 

Veg not meat Your are more a veg than the meat

Link to post
Share on other sites

So angry, but what did we really expect, I have now been left in a situation where an unauthorised payment took from my account a matter that I have disputed but was told it can take 120 days to sort out, and since september alone due to this the bank have took almost £600 in overdraft charges all of which have left me over my overdraft limit (so who knows how much in the past 6 years) and as now I am stupid enough to bank with halifax with their new charges which begin early dec I am now looking forward to getting a £5 charge aday added to my account, I cant afford to pay what I owe and if todays decision had of been different I would have had no problems at all, yet know what to do next I have no idea, but I cant pay so????????? we are all being robbed by the banks, the government and too many other organisations and companies to mention, like sheep bing led to slaughter comes to mind.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well said, they were fined 28 million pounds, if you take advantage of an unauthorised overdraft you too will pay a penalty, if they write to you telling you so you will pay for their letter. However, if you stuck to the terms and conditions of the Bank you won't pay any penalties, simple really.

i am already on with moving out of the rbs, does anyone know if skipton is indipendant.

TOTALLY debt free as of 2007, Fantastic,

Link to post
Share on other sites

what a Farce.....Like everyone has said i have to agree the ruling was for one reason...."restoring Big players confidence in the banking system" can;t have the system fail again....tosh why not just keep stalling unitl encomny was in a better posistion??

Link to post
Share on other sites

If it were so simple why has it taken two years of top legal brains and courts toing and froing in their decisions to come to this rather narrow and artificial construction between core and ancillary terms. The transposal of the directive means that unfair terms shall not be binding on the consumer.

 

Perhaps you would like to provide us with a SIMPLE yes or no as to whether all laws should be observed by all, or only observed when they suit us? SIMPLE? I don't think so.

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just see the news regardng the test case, what will happen now ???????? have a claim which went to court and the court uled that the defendant the Halifax must file their defence by 16 Nov 4pm which they did not and the court stated that their defence after this dtae will be stuck out so on the 18th Nov 09 we filed for the judgment, which the judgement papers are with the judge. Can the judge now stop our claim due the the test case or confirm the judgement as the defendant dd not file defence by the date set by the court. we are hopng that the court will issue the judgement as the claim was filed before the test case hearing and the defendant did not replied to the court papers

 

here hoping

 

UPDATE i have called the ourt today and the judge has issued the judgement in relation to our claim, now hoping the bank will refund

Edited by rippedoff15
Link to post
Share on other sites

On reflection, Its only the OFT that cannot have a say in the charges. That doesnt mean, that someone can't take their bank to court and demand a refund based on what the charges are actually made up of. They would have to show that it costs them the amount they charge, making profits from charges may be illegal.

As for the Troll Vegnobrains, a quick trace route and block should put paid their Network for a while:p

Link to post
Share on other sites

On reflection, Its only the OFT that cannot have a say in the charges. That doesnt mean, that someone can take their bank to court and demand a refund based on what the charges are actually made up of. They would have to show that it costs them the amount they charge, making profits from charges may be illegal.

As for the Troll Vegnobrains, a quick trace route and block should put paid their Network for a while:p

 

 

I totally agree.

I dont see this as the end.merely the beginning of the 2nd phase.

NatWest Bank

- S.A.R Request Sent 21/9/06.

- Prelim Letter Sent 16/10/06

- LBA Sent 09/7/07

 

Barclays Bank

- S.A.R Sent 4/1/07

- Prelim Letter 1/2/07

- LBA Sent 16/02/07

- MCOL Filed 20/3/07

- A/Q Filed 30/5/07

- Court Date received 16/6/07

- SETTLED IN FULL £15XX.XX 07/7/07 :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe it's just me and I'm SIMPLE, really SIMPLE.

 

Perhaps those who argue that it is SIMPLE could have a quick read through the SIMPLE UTCCR's and enlighten as as to the SIMPLICITY of the following regulations. In fact if you break the law you deserve to be punished/penalised right? SIMPLE eh?

 

In SIMPLE terms please show us in the following regulations, which carry the full force of law, in the UK, where the banks charges are fair. It's SIMPLE really so shouldn't take you long.

 

Statutory Instrument 1999 No. 2083

Keep the faith. EiE.

 

Capstone Mortgage 'Services' - Sub-prime garbage - unlawful behaviour/MULTIPLE consumer abuse, TOTALLY in Defiance of REGULATIONS and the law

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/gmac_rfc.pdf

 

CONTACT CIB Here

 

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/Complaintformcib.Htm

 

Kevin Hughes(Compliance Manager-main) @ 02920 380 633

 

Lee Jenkins(prosecuting Amany Attia) 02920 380 643

 

Mark Youde(accounts compliance) 02920 380 955

 

Charlotte Allan @ 0207 596 6108 investigating all the Lehman lenders

 

Jeremy Pilcher 0207 637 6231

 

NO KAGGA LEFT BEHIND...

 

"We would not seek a battle, as we are; Nor, as we are, we say we will not shun it"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Crapstone this isn't a troll at all. Using unauthorised overdraft charges as an example please explain to me why I am wrong ?

 

Regards

 

 

ok example for u , i go to a high street foood retailer to by my dinner a day before payday, i haven't had time to check my balance but im pretty sure i have £10 in my account, now i spend £9.80 in said store, in fact i had £8.30 avail, now the transaction gets authorised for that and i get charged £38 for unathorised overdraft request, ok the T&C's of my account probably say that that will happen, but i don't have a choice i can't bank else where, where this doens't happen?? how can that be fair.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Crapstone this isn't a troll at all. Using unauthorised overdraft charges as an example please explain to me why I am wrong ?

 

Regards

 

If only it were that B&W.....I suggest you read the threads on this site. This is CAG ..Consumer Action Group and meant for people that are concerned consumers, not people that wan't to argue against them. I'm sure you'll be more at home on a bank support website.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It was hardly going to be any other way, the government has spent billions on these banks, they were not going to let the banks loose this and pay out billions were they. We have lost. There are glimmers of hope, but very very slim ones IMHO.

 

The only was forward is to make sure you dont go OD, atall. Since I got my charges back, well most of them, 2 years ago, I have gone over once, and been charged £8 by Barclays. I can live with that...

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Anyone with a current account. Move it if you can to the Nationwide or the Co-op. Where the customers are the shareholders. Let the High Street Robbers go back to their profitable investment banking that caused the economic meltdown.

 

I might just well do this and if a sizeable number of us did the same that would make a dent in their deposits

 

On another note I believe that banks have to retain a certain % of assets in the form of cash deposits, which has been reviewed since the financial crisis. If we were to withdraw our deposits or transfer to building societies not affialiated with the major high street banks what kind of impact would thsi have on their cash deposits.

 

We all know that there is a move from investment to more traditional high st banks using customer deposits as leverage for loans etc so i wonder if there was a move by a good % of retail cutomers to "other accounts" whether this would make them think.

 

Regards

 

ST

RBS/Triton - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Moorcroft - Gone way No CCA

RBS/AIC - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Intrum - Gone Away No CCA

RBS/Regal - Gone Away

 

Cahoot/Link - CCA in Dispute

 

Capital One - Settled

 

Lloyds Bank - Awaiting Outcome from Supreme Court Hearing.

 

Lloyds Credit Credit - Repayment Plan

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi Bobsp

 

isn't that the point though? you are now paying £8 where it would have previously been much higher. That's because the inflated charges were unfair

=================================================================

remember

 

the Sun is always shining, it's just that you can't see it sometimes

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...