Tactics for dealing with Next Directory/out of date in light of recent judgements

[pt2537]

Hi , i have just looked at my credit file Next Directory hace entered a default against me i have copy of the letter they sent saying they cannot find a copy of an agreement but are they still allowed to enter this with CRA ? if not please tell me what i need to do to get it taken off my file .

sadly, they are not allowed to do this but it is not straight forward to get it removed

 

most likely you will need to sue, firstly to have the agreement declared unenforceable and secondly to have the data removed.

[rome00]

Thanks for your reply so where do i start i ve just dug out the letter they sent basically it says .

with regard to filing information relating to the debt with credit reference agencies,this is covered by the data protection act.As a responsible lender Next have a duty to provide accurate information to the credit reference agencies and other lenders . What a cheek are there any letters on here i can copy and send i dont know what or where to start .This letter is dated 5th september 2007, but i had the account long before that .

[ben1305]

sorry for posting here but can anyone help me

I've recently received a ccj for the grand sum of £470.

this ccj was issued by robinson way for a next directory debt.

I received the ccj paperwork from northampton bulk.

I did not dispute the debt as i didnt know i could until reading up on CAG.

now I'm paying a court bailiff £36 pm for this debt.

 

I dont ever recall signing a cca with next directory therefore this debt would be unenforcable correct????

How do i go about getting this ccj removed and stick 2 fingers up and robinson way in 1??????

 

thanking you in advance

Ben

[bazaar]

Hi Ben, have you started your own thread yet? You'll get a better chance of input if you do, prob needs to go in the legal section. just holler if you need help

[violethill]

hi everyone im new to this thread can any one tell me the state of play regarding no signed cca with next my account was opened over the internet last year but i did not sign and they av admitted they don,t hold an agreement for me is this account unenforcable same goes for j.d williams no cca,s but opened over internet ta anyone:grin:

[pt2537]

hi everyone im new to this thread can any one tell me the state of play regarding no signed cca with next my account was opened over the internet last year but i did not sign and they av admitted they don,t hold an agreement for me is this account unenforcable same goes for j.d williams no cca,s but opened over internet ta anyone:grin:

the simple answer is no

 

if the accounts were opened last year then they would not fall within the irredeemably unenforceable provisions of the old 1974 act

 

sorry but it is unlikely that they will be unenforceable

 

you should start your own thread on these cases and im sure people will assist where they can

[Red1983]

Hi PT, thanks for the awesome thread, but then again they always are.

I dont want to say to much on here cos its your thread, however, would you mind checking out my thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/211175-next.html Red V Next.

 

I could really do with some advice on what to send these scary monsters.

Just to say it is a Pre 2007 account.

 

Any bit of your time would be hugely appreciated as I know you must be a legal person thingy me bob, and vey busy.

 

Kindest Regards,

 

Red

[Harrassed09]

Subbing

[elie1977]

My partner had a next account before April 2007, and totally maxed it and was left paying £900, she had to get a bank loan out to clear the debt, she settled with £650. They also defaulted her and will not take it off her credit file, is there a claim to get all monies paid back if they do not have the correct paperwork to hand, also there is another company done the same called ACE?

[pt2537]

My partner had a next account before April 2007, and totally maxed it and was left paying £900, she had to get a bank loan out to clear the debt, she settled with £650. They also defaulted her and will not take it off her credit file, is there a claim to get all monies paid back if they do not have the correct paperwork to hand, also there is another company done the same called ACE?

The simple answer is no there is no restitutionary remedy available in those circumstances, as for the default, things will become clearer in September when the test case is due to be heard in the High court on exactly this point

[militantconsumer]

The simple answer is no there is no restitutionary remedy available in those circumstances, as for the default, things will become clearer in September when the test case is due to be heard in the High court on exactly this point

 

Sounds interesting PT, is there any further info on this anywhere on CAG?

[pt2537]

Sounds interesting PT, is there any further info on this anywhere on CAG?

not that im aware of

 

IT came out of the Walker vs SPPL case over in Chester where HHJ Halbert confered with Lord Justice Moore-Bick and it was agreed that a test case should be heard by the High Court (commercial Court) before Mr Justice Smith

 

the case starts some time in September and i am keeping professional tabs on it:wink:

[supasta1]

It would be such good news if this came back in our favour.... my fingers are firmly crossed

[toddle2u]

Oh Joy Oh Joy Oh Joy.

 

Have been in Court this morning as a McKenzie Friend in a Next case. Spoke to the other sides solicitor outside the court room and asked him if he had an agreement or a correct default notice as they hadn't submitted any documents to the court prior to the hearing as instructed. He replied he had a mock up of the default but no agreement and the case was a foregone conclusion as my friend had had the goods. I said how are you going to get round the fact that you have no agreement and he replied by persuading the judge to see the facts - I said good luck to him and walked off

 

Well went into the court room. After pleasantries with the Judge he said the court is very busy and can see that my firend has put a lot of work into the defence. He then asked the other side what points he woudl like him to consider. The rest went something like this:

 

Next Solicitor - "There is no agreement because it was entered into 21 years ago"

Judge - "So how can i rule if it is enforceable or not if you don't have one? What's your next point"

NS - "The Default Notice"

J - "The DN you have included in the witness statement?"

NS - "Yes"

J - "Is the person here who made the witness statement?"

NS "No"

J "But it is not a valid DN. The WS says this is a true copy but it does not have any of the defendants details on or how it can be remedied"

NS - "But the defendant has had the goods and has been unjustly enriched"

J - "But you have no agreement for me to rule on and an invalid DN so we don't even have to get into the defendant unjustly enriched. HAve you any other evidence you want to rely on apart frrom a non-existant credit agreement and an invalid DN?"

NS "No your honour"

 

Upto this point neither my friend or me has said a word apart from good morning. The judge then asks my friend and I swear to god he had a great big smile on his face

J "Are you going to say anything to dissuade me from dismissing this claim?"

My Friend "No your honour"

 

J "Claim dismissed. Have you incurred any costs today?"

F "Yes travel and parking costs"

 

So she got her travel and parking paid for. We were in there maximum 15 minutes. Unbelievable result. Thanks to everyone on here for their help

Edited October 20, 2009 by toddle2u

[BeauBrummie]

Oh Joy Oh Joy Oh Joy.

 

Have been in Court this morning as a McKenzie Friend in a Next case. Spoke to the other sides solicitor outside the court room and asked him if he had an agreement or a correct default notice as they hadn't submitted any documents to the court prior to the hearing as instructed. He replied he had a mock up of the default but no agreement and the case was a foregone conclusion as my friend had had the goods. I said how are you going to get round the fact that you have no agreement and he replied by persuading the judge to see the facts - I said good luck to him and walked off

 

Well went into the court room. After pleasantries with the Judge he said the court is very busy and can see that my firend has put a lot of work into the defence. He then asked the other side what points he woudl like him to consider. The rest went something like this:

 

Next Solicitor - "There is no agreement because it was entered into 21 years ago"

Judge - "So how can i rule if it is enforceable or not if you don't have one? What's your next point"

NS - "The Default Notice"

J - "The DN you have included in the witness statement?"

NS - "Yes"

J - "Is the person here who made the witness statement?"

NS "No"

J "But it is not a valid DN. The WS says this is a true copy but it does not have any of the defendants details on or how it can be remedied"

NS - "But the defendant has had the goods and has been unjustly enriched"

J - "But you have no agreement for me to rule on and an invalid DN so we don't even have to get into the defendant unjustly enriched. HAve you any other evidence you want to rely on apart frrom a non-existant credit agreement and an invalid DN?"

NS "No your honour"

 

Upto this point neither my friend or me has said a word apart from good morning. The judge then asks my friend and I swear to god he had a great big smile on his facee

J "Are you going to say anything to dissuade me from dismissing this claim?"

My Friend "No your honour"

 

J "Claim dismissed. Have you incurred any costs today?"

F "Yes travel and parking costs"

 

So she got her travel and parking paid for. We were in there maximum 15 minutes. Unbelievable result. Thanks to everyone on here for their help

 

Well done for getting the result. Although this is a perfect example of why these type of cases should not get to a hearing. Hope I get the same result in December that is if H Cohen do not withdraw.

 

Well done again

 

Beau

[toddle2u]

Thanks for that. This was Howard Cohen and judging by your moniker you will be in the same court we were! Good luck with your case in December

[GARY68]

BRILLIAINT,

Well done Toddle2u

[alfwithhair]

congratulations on your success

[JonCris]

PT your box is full

 

Hi

 

After making initial contact wife has not been able to get the Solicitor in Wales on the phone despite leaving numerous messages. This leads me to ask is there a problem you might know of

 

Regards Jon

[myfairlady]

Please note

 

This guidance is only really relevent to accounts opened before 6th April 2007

 

Next Retail T/A Next Directory are notorious for failing to ensure that as a matter of procedure they obtain a signed credit agreement which complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

If you never signed an agreement with Next, then you have a complete defence to any claim they may bring against you and in some cases you could sue them for declaratory relief.

 

Interestingly, Next seem to be raising the "you dont deny having the goods" argument more and more, while on the face of it, it would seem like they are right and are entitled to recover their monies, actually it couldnt be further from the truth.

 

What they are implying is that you have been unjustly enriched by having goods that you do not have to pay for. This cannot be so, the House of Lords declared such in the leading case of Wilson and First County Trust Para 46-49 of Lord Nicholls of Birkenhead's Judgment

 

 

Above is the paragraphs concerned with unjust enrichment

 

So, me o'le mates at Next dont seem to have such a strong argument when you consider the above case

 

 

Moving back to the issues of enforceability

 

 

If you never signed an agreement with Next, then section 61(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 was never complied with, as a result the agreement (if there actually was one) is improperly executed as defined within section 65(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I always make a request for the agreement from Next, they normally write back saying "we cannot locate a copy of your agreement but heres a true copy of what you would have been sent" which in my view means we dont have one, but you will already know that anyway if you never signed one wont you.

 

If there never was a signed agreement it is clear that s127(3) prevents enforcement and will provide a complete defence to any such claim that Next would seek to bring against you

Hi could you advise i read through this thread very techno with the cca ,but i have had dealings with Fashion World i had this account over ten years now not signed ca , i did ask for a copy but they only came up with a true copy excuse , is Fashion world the same company as JD williams? they say my account is in dispute and they it will bea difficult effecting my credit rating, they did spieell of saying i did have the goods etc . where do i from here ....

[militantconsumer]

Hi myfairlady and welcome to CAG

 

This sounds similar to the Next Directory situation. I suggest you start a new thread for your case so that people can advise without it getting mixed up with this thread.

 

You can, of course, place a link to your thread here.

[BeauBrummie]

I think we need a re-think about how we approach the courts in our defences.

 

DJ in my case, found for the claimant on the "Balance of Probabilities" that there were monies owed by the defendant.

 

It seems that the is a huge get out for judges and apparently seems to be happening more and more now I have looked.

 

DJ also said that sites like this one do not give a true and proper picture of the law, and in his view soon the CC Companies will consider if there is evidence to take to the Crown Prosecutuion Service for Fraud by the defendants!!!!!

 

 

As I say we may need a re-think.

 

Beau

[the_shadow]

I think we need a re-think about how we approach the courts in our defences.

 

DJ in my case, found for the claimant on the "Balance of Probabilities" that there were monies owed by the defendant.

 

It seems that the is a huge get out for judges and apparently seems to be happening more and more now I have looked.

 

DJ also said that sites like this one do not give a true and proper picture of the law, and in his view soon the CC Companies will consider if there is evidence to take to the Crown Prosecutuion Service for Fraud by the defendants!!!!!

 

 

As I say we may need a re-think.

 

Beau

 

Blimey, I'm guessing this was an "old school" judge of a certain age shall we say?

 

S.

[sequenci]

Blimey, I'm guessing this was an "old school" judge of a certain age shall we say?

 

S.

 

And one that could do with reading the legistaltion it seems.

[steve_butcher]

Is PT still with us? Wonder what he would say? I have had some joy with having cases stayed, as they could not provide a true copy of the executed agreement.