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    • Please see my comments in orange within your post.
    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.   House or Flat? Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. Lenders have a legal obligation to sell the property for the best price they can get. If they feel the offer is low they won't sell it, because it's likely the borrower will say the same. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Again, points as above. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) Why serve a delapidations notice? If it's in the terms of the lease to maintain the property to a good standard, then serve an S146 notice instead as it's a clear breach of the lease. I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. Enfranchisement isn't something that can be "voided", it's in the Leasehold Reform Act 1967 that leaseholders have the right to buy the freehold of the property. It's normal, whether it is a "normal" leaseholder or a repossession with a leasehold house, to claim this right of enfranchisement and sell the property with said rights attached and the purchase price of the freehold included in the final completion price. That's likely what the mortgage provider wished to do. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Redact and scan said evidence up for others to look at? Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. So this is dealt with then. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.  You wouldn't vary a lease through a lease extension. You'd need a Deed of Variation for that. This may be done at the same time but the lease has already been extended once and that's all they have a right to. The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved. The lease has already been extended once so they have no right to another extension. It seems pretty easy to just get the lawyer to say no and stick by those terms as the law is on your side there. Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. Again, order them to revert it as they didn't have permission to do the works, or else serve an S146 notice for breach of the lease. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
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Southern Water/shumans joint claimforms - water debt


jerrythompson
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Hi

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?491828-Southern-Water-UKsearchLTD-Shulmans-court-claim-urgent-help-needed-(past-33-days)

 

We are in exactly the same situation having just received a Letter Before Action Letter from Shulmans/UK Search/ Southern Water for alleged bills between 2007 and 2015.

 

This letter is addressed to my partner and his ex who split in 2015.

They claim £3343 is owed but this is the first we know about it.

 

Having read through this thread,

I am a little confused as the info appears contradictory....

 

Are we sending the CAG pack to Southern Water, Shulmans or UK Search in the first instance please?

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My partner has just received a letter from Shulmans/UK Search on behalf of Southern Water for bills between 2007 and 2015.

 

It is addressed to my partner and his ex at my home, and they have sent a letter stating £3343 is owed.

 

I have read the info on filling in the forms but could someone please help as to whom I send it to?? Is it Southern Water, UK Search or Shulmans please?

 

Many thanks

JT

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Is it a letter of claim with a sep response pack?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Good work!!

Put them in their place

Ruddy fleecers

Who are shulmans stated client..sth water?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Who it says on the pack..the sols

Use our response pack in that thread not theirs

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 1 month later...

Hi DX100UK

 

Further to the above thread, and despite my letter to them as follows dated 9th November 2018 (for which there as been no response!), we have today received claim forms for both my partner and his ex, (who obviously does not abide with us) from the County Court.

 

Could you please guide me as to where we go now?

 

" Further to your letter of 9th November 2018, I wish to firstly point out that Miss XXX is in no way related to the correspondence address and should be addressed separately. Furthermore I wish to state that is the first time you have advised me of this issue.

 

[CCA template removed - please read the top line] - dx

 

Can you help please?

Many thanks

Edited by dx100uk
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Water service charges are not covered by any of the acts you mention in the letter you sent and are raised pursuant to the Water Industy Act 1991.

 

No contract is required as the above Act deems the occupier(s) of a property liable for payment of water and /or sewerage charges (s.144 a & b)

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you EACH need to do this:

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

 

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

.

type your name ONLY

 

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

 

thread moved to general legals and retitled.

 

please also complete the following:

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do-**UPDATED-2018**(1-Viewing)-nbsp

Edited by dx100uk
merge

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Name of the Claimant ?

Southern Water

Date of issue – 8th January 2019

 

Date to acknowledge - 25/01/19

 

date to submit defence = 08/02/19

 

 

Particulars of Claim

 

1.The Claimant is statutory water and sewerage undertaker pursuant to the Water Industry Act 1991 (the Act).

 

2.The Claimant claims the sum of £3343 for unpaid water and/or sewerage charges payable under s.142-144 of the Act and the Claimants' Charges Scheme.

 

3.The unpaid sum of £3343 is for water and/or sewerage services provided to the Defendant(s) at ADDRESS for the period of 02/10/2007 to 01/10/2015

 

4. The claimant claims interest under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 01/10/2015 to 07/01/2019 on £874 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.73.

 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes Letter before action dated 09/11/18. Sent CCA Request and received nothing

 

What is the total value of the claim? £4483

 

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? WATER

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After 02/10/2007

 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? No

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Southern Water and the address is Shulmans

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Had nothing at all!

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? NO

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? NO

 

Why did you cease payments? I didn't actually know they weren't being paid. I was working and presumed my ex was paying the bills so I had no idea until last November.

 

What was the date of your last payment? Unknown

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Not that I am aware of

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan No because I didn't know

 

Thank you DX, I think I'm following you but can I also just ask a couple of questions?

 

1. Is Kjun's advice correct at all?

Does is Water a separate thing?

I sent the template as advised I'm worried I've sent the wrong one!

 

2. Do I need to forward the co Defendant's paperwork directly to her even though we have already told Shulman's that she doesn't live here?!

 

3. Which CPR31:14 do I need please?

Loans/Credit or Current Account?

 

Thank you in anticipation

JT

Edited by dx100uk
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read this thread all the way through

 

is your ex listed as a joint claimant

or

a sep claimform?

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?477432-Southern-Water-claimform***Claim-Struck-Out***

 

 

you also need to bear-in-mind some of the charges are outside of 6yrs = statute barred!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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please note also the corrected dates for AOS and defence filing.

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

.

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors

.

type your name ONLY

 

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Thanks again DX

 

Yes they have prepared this as a joint claim. (Luckily my partner and his ex are amicable so we have communications with her). She has had no contact with Southern Water or it's allies either.

 

I will send the CPR and I will respond to the court as requested.

 

Should I mention anywhere about the fact that at least some of this is statute barred?

 

Also Kjun's input is confusing as I have tried to read the Water regs but it's all jargon for me.

 

Thank you for your time

JT

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Just follow post 3

Rest is for your defence

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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online ofcourse??

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

:rockon::rockon:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Good afternoon!

We have now received a letter from Shulmans stating that

1. they do not need to provide any details as it has been filed online and that the Agreement comes under a different Act as the charges are not raised by contract.

2.They state that Southern Water have not sold the debt

3. No Default Notice has been issued

4. They are requesting an offer

 

We have not heard back from the Court yet.

 

How do we proceed please?

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the claim is WELL stayed..

 

if they want to do anything them they will have to pay to get the stay lift and gamble their theories are correct

 

I guess what you are saying is this letter is a begging one for want of another word saying please make us an offer, w are not confident enough to progress the case in court but hope you will be mug enough to fall for our discount offer?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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